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Rape epidemic in Sweden [W21]

PeteEU said:
Not exactly true with Assange. There are no charges in his case, they only want to question him and are using an arrest warrant to do so. The prosecutor in the case is female with links to the right wing in Sweden, and despite the women involved not willing to be witnesses, she went ahead with the case regardless. She was even offered to come to the UK to interview him, a very normal practice, but refused so and issued the arrest warrant .. so she could interview him in Sweden.

The Assange case is political big time.. no one else under the same circumstances would have been dealt with in this way.
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That is the take of people that think the US is out to get him. I have heard it a Thousand times. And representation is not only wrong. It is wrong headed. What is interesting is that you would attack the Swedish prosecutor as a "female with links to the right wing". That says so much about where your arguments come from that it seems pointless to argue.
The US has no interest in prosecuting the man; never did. It was discussed and understood to be impossible. But it fits, what many European politicians insinuate in articles or proclaim ex cathedra, when they need unity for this or that at home. And a large proportion of their street believes them.

None the less, if you have looked into the matter you know very well that Swedish law forbids non consensual unprotected sex and classes it rape. This is independent of the incidental prosecutor. That is why Assange did not want to be extradited. And I fully understand him. He would suddenly not be the fighter for freedom under attack by the forces of evil. He would be or risk being a convicted rapist. Political books don't sell on that story and the writer does not become a millionaire.
 
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Dr. Chuckles said:
there are a few troubling trends with immigrant communities from the islamic world engaging in various forms of rape. i imagine it's a mixture of repressive cultures, stifled and sexist views of women, jaded views of western women, and the fact that many of these communities are populated by refugees.

Al-jazeera did a really great piece on one such community in the belgium about a year ago. if I can find it I'll post it up
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Oh I know. Immigrant communities from certain areas of certain countries are problematic. In Denmark some Kurdish fathers have been teaching their sons that Danish women are whores.. and that kind of crap needs to be stomped out.

But saying that, there are still such attitudes in society in general in all countries. Like it or not it is not an exclusive "muslim" thing only.. it rampant among conservative peoples world wide that simply do not believe that women should have be even remotely equal to men. Just look at some comments on these boards.
 
joG said:
That is the take of people that think the US is out to get him. I have heard it a Thousand times. And representation is not only wrong. It is wrong headed. What is interesting is that you would attack the Swedish prosecutor as a "female with links to the right wing". That says so much about where your arguments come from that it seems pointless to argue.
The US has no interest in prosecuting the man; never did. It was discussed and understood to be impossible. But it fits, what many European politicians insinuate in articles or proclaim ex cathedra, when they need unity for this or that at home. And a large proportion of their street believes them.

None the less, if you have looked into the matter you know very well that Swedish law forbids non consensual unprotected sex and classes it rape. This is independent of the incidental prosecutor. That is why Assange did not want to be extradited. And I fully understand him. He would suddenly not be the fighter for freedom under attack by the forces of evil. He would be or risk being a convicted rapist. Political books don't sell on that story and the writer does not become a millionaire.
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I would actually agree with you some what, if it was not for the fact that the prosecutor in this case broke normal protocol. Normally if a person needs to be interviewed then arrangements are made in that persons location, but in this case she refused and demanded him extradited on an European ARREST warrant for a simple questioning, something that it was never designed for.

Why the difference? Can you explain that?
 
DDD said:
Well this source says that rape in Sweden is under-reported instead. They even emphasize the legal term for that, it is "attrition."

Also, this may be an epidemic, but it is not non-western specific. The UN reporter says that most rapes occur because of normal naturalized Swedes.

References:

Swedish rapists
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Did you even read the links?

The first one is about conviction rates and the only mention about reporting rates is quoting the EU. Yes convictions rates suck in Sweden like everywhere else in the world.

The second link is about the changes in the law that ironically will allow more convictions it seems. Again nothing about reporting per say.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
This is the story of Ibrahim, a courageous Dutch-Moroccan social worker in the Netherlands who is tackling the high incidences of sex-trafficking of young Dutch girls by their so-called 'boyfriends' - the Lover Boys - the majority of whom are Dutch-Moroccan.

It is a taboo subject, but Ibrahim and his allies, including a local sheikh, are determined to remove this stain from their community.

This raw and often graphic film introduces us to both perpetrators and victims of this branch of internal sex-trafficking.

Ibrahim does preventative work with vulnerable young men in youth clubs as well as political lobbying to get the matter addressed in his local authority.

The complications of working in a country where prostitution is legal for over 18s, as well as cultural taboos within his own community, make for many challenges - and he is only too aware that right-wing elements thrive on any vulnerabilities among immigrant groups.

The film includes a disguised interview with a former Lover Boy, as well as harrowing and graphic testimonies from young women who were pimped by their 'boyfriends' when aged 12 and 15.

Lover Boys - Watch Free Documentary Online - Al Jazeera, Witness

I'm having a hardtime accessing the film, due to it being released prior to AJ america launching. But for anyone not in the states, youtube has most of the witness programs archived. The episode was titled lover boys
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This goes on for Eastern European women as well.. by Russians, Ukrainians, Triades and so on. Human trafficking needs to be hit down on hard.
 
Higgins86 said:
its not the maths its the word itself, I don't think its a word use can use in regards to an increase in rape rates. Unless we suggest that the male population of Sweden are infected with some kind of rape virus.
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Merriam-Webster online dictionary Epidemic---1 : affecting or tending to affect a disproportionately large number of individuals within a population, community, or region at the same time <typhoid was epidemic>
2 a : excessively prevalent b : contagious 4 <epidemic laughter>
3 : characterized by very widespread growth or extent : of, relating to, or constituting an epidemic <the practice had reached epidemic proportions>

I think you are being a bit, incorrectly, pedantic.
 
Paschendale said:
It's integration, not isolation, that will modernize the world.
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How to integrate imposing conflicting cultures? Islamic religious immigrants want all woman to increase their sexuality by concealment. Where as the westerners want all woman to increase their sexuality by showing it openly.

Who gets to say whose cultural position is to be in power at the cost of the other and still maintain integration rather than assimilation?
 
PeteEU said:
Did you even read the links?

The first one is about conviction rates and the only mention about reporting rates is quoting the EU. Yes convictions rates suck in Sweden like everywhere else in the world.

The second link is about the changes in the law that ironically will allow more convictions it seems. Again nothing about reporting per say.
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As you can see on your own post I only provided one link. In that link what I mentioned applies. You can make a search and find it there.
 
PeteEU said:
I would actually agree with you some what, if it was not for the fact that the prosecutor in this case broke normal protocol. Normally if a person needs to be interviewed then arrangements are made in that persons location, but in this case she refused and demanded him extradited on an European ARREST warrant for a simple questioning, something that it was never designed for.

Why the difference? Can you explain that?
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As I said, I am no lawyer. So I am not an expert. But the decision was made by the State Prosecutor's Office and upheld by every court up to the Supreme Court of Sweden. I mean, they knew it would be eyeballed by every one and their dogs the world over and would smear their name if found wanting. Now I would not put murky behavior beyond the Swedes. But really now. Do you think they would uphold illegal behavior by a relatively lowly employee in a case of this visibility all the way to the top? Now everybody can believe in anything he wants. Personally, I do not think the Swedes are that stupid.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Merriam-Webster online dictionary Epidemic---1 : affecting or tending to affect a disproportionately large number of individuals within a population, community, or region at the same time <typhoid was epidemic>
2 a : excessively prevalent b : contagious 4 <epidemic laughter>
3 : characterized by very widespread growth or extent : of, relating to, or constituting an epidemic <the practice had reached epidemic proportions>

I think you are being a bit, incorrectly, pedantic.
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Not really unless you can prove that these rapes are either contagious or are all related.
 
joG said:
As I said, I am no lawyer. So I am not an expert. But the decision was made by the State Prosecutor's Office and upheld by every court up to the Supreme Court of Sweden. I mean, they knew it would be eyeballed by every one and their dogs the world over and would smear their name if found wanting. Now I would not put murky behavior beyond the Swedes. But really now. Do you think they would uphold illegal behavior by a relatively lowly employee in a case of this visibility all the way to the top? Now everybody can believe in anything he wants. Personally, I do not think the Swedes are that stupid.
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Oh I am not saying that she did anything illegal, I am saying that she did something that was not normal in such a case and THAT is what is fuelling the problem. Had she followed normal procedure and gone to London to interview him then we would not have any of these problems. Hell she could have interviewed him via Skype for **** sake.. but she chose not too and chose to use the European Arrest Warrant to get him extradited for questioning. There are actually no charges against him as far as I understand.
 
Ben K. said:
Well it's an awful story. But your source seems a bit off, the comments section in particular is pretty messed up.


The source that site uses is in Swedish but Google Translate checks out the is reported accurately from there. But the about us section of that site translates from Swedish to:




So while this is a topic worth discussion, the story that frames it seems a bit unreliable.
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The story isn't in Swedish, it's in Norweigan. The About Us section of the site as translated by me:

Fyret is an independent news site that will give readers news and opinions they don't get from normal media in Norway. We don't care about journalism's code of ethics, but give the uncensored truth. Wi wish not to protect the Norweigan people from cumbersome truths, but that people instead can come to their own conclusions about the culture we live in on the basis of facts. We allow other news channels to indulge themselves in distorted opinion pieces and indoctrination. At Fyret you get independent news!
 
Peter Grimm said:
The story isn't in Swedish, it's in Norweigan. The About Us section of the site as translated by me:

Fyret is an independent news site that will give readers news and opinions they don't get from normal media in Norway. We don't care about journalism's code of ethics, but give the uncensored truth. Wi wish not to protect the Norweigan people from cumbersome truths, but that people instead can come to their own conclusions about the culture we live in on the basis of facts. We allow other news channels to indulge themselves in distorted opinion pieces and indoctrination. At Fyret you get independent news!
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It was the original source that claimed it was Swedish. Speaks further of its credibility.
 
Ben K. said:
It was the original source that claimed it was Swedish. Speaks further of its credibility.
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I was able to confirm the story using two independent Swedish news sources.

Kvinnan dog under våldtäkten

Död kvinna skymfades sexuellt - DN.SE



It happened just as the first linked story said. A woman was walking in the parking lot at the Sheraton in downtown Stockholm (a nice area!), she was high on drugs and drunk, a 34 year old Somalian immigrant raped and murdered her, and continued to rape her dead body.

The same man had been prosecuted for another rape back in August.

He had been prosecuted for mugging a man back in April.

The suspect and the victim knew each other but were "superficial aquaintences"
 
Ben K. said:
It was the original source that claimed it was Swedish. Speaks further of its credibility.
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I was able to confirm the story using two independent Swedish news sources.

Kvinnan dog under våldtäkten

Död kvinna skymfades sexuellt - DN.SE



It happened just as the first linked story said. A woman was walking in the parking lot at the Sheraton in downtown Stockholm (a nice area!), she was high on drugs and drunk, a 34 year old Somalian immigrant raped and murdered her, and continued to rape her dead body.

The same man had been prosecuted for another rape back in August.

He had been prosecuted for mugging a man back in April.

The suspect and the victim knew each other but were "superficial aquaintences"
 
Higgins86 said:
Not really unless you can prove that these rapes are either contagious or are all related.
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"Epidemic" may be an emotional word to use but it's a pretty common problem in Sweden that Muslim immigrants think Swedish women, who are very liberal and don't wear burkas, etc, are "whores" and that they can be treated like whores.

Rape is a big problem there, and other kinds of violence committed by these immigrants.

Swedes don't want to change their legal system though, because they value their liberal values. In Sweden, jail should be to rehabilitate not to punish.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I was able to confirm the story using two independent Swedish news sources.

Kvinnan dog under våldtäkten

Död kvinna skymfades sexuellt - DN.SE



It happened just as the first linked story said. A woman was walking in the parking lot at the Sheraton in downtown Stockholm (a nice area!), she was high on drugs and drunk, a 34 year old Somalian immigrant raped and murdered her, and continued to rape her dead body.

The same man had been prosecuted for another rape back in August.

He had been prosecuted for mugging a man back in April.

The suspect and the victim knew each other but were "superficial aquaintences"
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They really need to throw the book at these guys. Europeans often marvel at American incarceration rates but we have so many people wandering the streets who shouldn't be. Sweden seems to be a very prominent example of the liberal approach that fails utterly.
 
Ben K. said:
They really need to throw the book at these guys. Europeans often marvel at American incarceration rates but we have so many people wandering the streets who shouldn't be. Sweden seems to be a very prominent example of the liberal approach that fails utterly.
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I agree. Swedes want to be nice to everybody and give everybody second chances and so forth, but sometimes that's naive. Especially when people come from other cultures and just take advantage of that.
 
PeteEU said:
Oh I am not saying that she did anything illegal, I am saying that she did something that was not normal in such a case and THAT is what is fuelling the problem. Had she followed normal procedure and gone to London to interview him then we would not have any of these problems. Hell she could have interviewed him via Skype for **** sake.. but she chose not too and chose to use the European Arrest Warrant to get him extradited for questioning. There are actually no charges against him as far as I understand.
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So where is the problem? You have two ways to go and chose one of them. That seems perfectly okay to me. Alternatively, he could have gone to the interview in Sweden, but chose to hide amd then seek asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

Now to tell truth, I do not really have the Swedes down as acolytes of the US nor do I think they are really a corrupt and disreputable country. As a matter of fact, I would think that they are one of the more law abiding countries around and at a certain distance to the US; hardly a country I would want to suspect of doing the illegal and evil bidding for the US. I might be wrong, of course. But I really do think you are doing them an injustice.
 
Rainman05 said:
Well... ethnic arabs and africans are virus. And there are hundred of thousands of them in Sweden.
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Estimates are difficult to come by but roughly 5% of the Swedish population is considered of Muslim heritage. The way many are included is by last name being 'Muslim'. That would be like saying a man with the last name Martinez is Catholic in the USofA.

France uses a tighter definition of Muslim and has 7.5% according to Pew. It's rape rate is 16.2 per 100,000 way below the 63.8 per of Sweden. Why the big difference when much of the French Muslims are ethnic Arabs and Africans as well? England has it's share of Muslim turmoil, I think we can agree with that, the UK rape rate is 27.6 per 100,000 and a Muslim population of 4.6%. I guess they are busy bees in England... :roll:

What give many who are worried about Muslims waiting in alleys and subway stops to ruin young ethnic northern European girls is the stats show the traditional rapist is still the leader in raping women. 2/3rds of the rapists are current, former lovers, friends or acquaintances. The remainder are split fairly evenly between relative or stranger.

Well I feel better....
 
Peter Grimm said:
"Epidemic" may be an emotional word to use but it's a pretty common problem in Sweden that Muslim immigrants think Swedish women, who are very liberal and don't wear burkas, etc, are "whores" and that they can be treated like whores. Rape is a big problem there, and other kinds of violence committed by these immigrants. Swedes don't want to change their legal system though, because they value their liberal values. In Sweden, jail should be to rehabilitate not to punish.
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I always smile when someone makes claims but uses no stats, facts or cite a source- they 'just know'... :roll:

Most all of Europe is very liberal and few non Muslim women in Europe wear burkas so it isn't just Sweden. One-off crimes don't make the pattern- be it a disturbed right wing man who shoots up an island full of young people or an American combat vet who blows up an office building full of civilians.

Let us look at other 'liberal' European countries with their rape and Muslim numbers....

Denmark has 4.1% Muslims (Pew) and a rape rate of 6.4 per 100,000.
Finland has .8% and a rape rate of 12.4 per (busy Muslims I guess)
Iceland has .1% and a rape rate of 24.7 per (damn busy Muslims)
Norway has 3% and a rape rate of 20.6 per
UK has 4.6 and a rate of 27.5 per
Belgium has 6% and a rate of 27.7 per
France has 7.5% and a rate of 16.2 per (slacker Muslims I guess)

Now Sweden has a fairly loose way of determining religious affiliation, by Muslim sounding name, so it may be a little suspect but there are roughly 4.9% and this amazingly off the chart rape rate of 63.8 per 100,000. Man those Swedish chicks must run around drugged, drunk and naked all the time! :shock:

Or the Swedes have rape laws that are MUCH different than the rest of the free world.
 
notquiteright said:
I always smile when someone makes claims but uses no stats, facts or cite a source- they 'just know'... :roll:

Most all of Europe is very liberal and few non Muslim women in Europe wear burkas so it isn't just Sweden. One-off crimes don't make the pattern- be it a disturbed right wing man who shoots up an island full of young people or an American combat vet who blows up an office building full of civilians.

Let us look at other 'liberal' European countries with their rape and Muslim numbers....

Denmark has 4.1% Muslims (Pew) and a rape rate of 6.4 per 100,000.
Finland has .8% and a rape rate of 12.4 per (busy Muslims I guess)
Iceland has .1% and a rape rate of 24.7 per (damn busy Muslims)
Norway has 3% and a rape rate of 20.6 per
UK has 4.6 and a rate of 27.5 per
Belgium has 6% and a rate of 27.7 per
France has 7.5% and a rate of 16.2 per (slacker Muslims I guess)

Now Sweden has a fairly loose way of determining religious affiliation, by Muslim sounding name, so it may be a little suspect but there are roughly 4.9% and this amazingly off the chart rape rate of 63.8 per 100,000. Man those Swedish chicks must run around drugged, drunk and naked all the time! :shock:

Or the Swedes have rape laws that are MUCH different than the rest of the free world.
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Perhaps one can focus on types of rape that are universally defined as such. Or rape in a single national context. Such as:

I had an interesting discussion with Camlon about aggravated rape in Norway. In their context, the perpetraors were all non-Norweigian ethnicity and the victims disproportionately ethnic Norweigian. It's hard to deny there's a statistically demonstrable ethnic element to aggravated rape in Norway at least.

The thread:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/161685-riots-sweden-continue-11.html

The source we were using (in Norweigian):
https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale_vedlegg/oslo/Vedlegg_1309.pdf
 
notquiteright said:
Americans have not been intergrating and modernizing for at least 100 years? I don't understand your point.
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The person I was responding to was promoting immigration in the face of accusations that an immigrant community is disproportionately responsible for a number of crimes. My response to that was to point how such is easy to say when you have no skin on the line.

All rather clearly stated in the original post and is, in no way, dependent on immigrant trends in the US. So instead of being a reactionary chowder head, why not stick to the subject, capiche?
 
Peter Grimm said:
"Epidemic" may be an emotional word to use but it's a pretty common problem in Sweden that Muslim immigrants think Swedish women, who are very liberal and don't wear burkas, etc, are "whores" and that they can be treated like whores.

Rape is a big problem there, and other kinds of violence committed by these immigrants.

Swedes don't want to change their legal system though, because they value their liberal values. In Sweden, jail should be to rehabilitate not to punish.
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I guess that's their choice, as a nation, to make. If they value their “liberal values” so highly, then they will have to understand that a higher rate of serious violent crime is a price that they will have to pay for upholding these “values.”

At least there is a useful purpose that a nation such as that serves, in showing the rest of the world where “liberal values” ultimately lead.
 
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