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Thread: Has time came for unification?

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    Has time came for unification?

    The country that I call "Dardania" is in fact this:

    Who Recognized Kosova? The Kosovar people thank you - Who Recognized Kosovo and Who Recognizes Kosovo

    The countries in blue on the map represent countries that have recognized our independence declared in 2008, the ones in gray have not still, and the ones in yellow are considering it. It takes 2/3's of UN countries to recognize a countries independence so as we would be an independent UN member. As you can see it there we are at 101 now.

    Another 28 to go and we will be with the UN. I think there are 5 countries in EU that have not yet recognized us. So generally we are getting there.

    But, technically Dardania and Albania are the same people divided by force from Serbs during 1878 while the Ottoman Empire was retreating (we thought they would protect us but underestimated Russia). We have endured several atrocities, genocides, looting, re-arrangements of wealth, forced dislocations, and assimilation attempts from Serbs since then during: 1912, 1945, and the one you saw in 1999.

    Now here is the deal. We are small and surrounded by foes (like Israel). Our foes are relentless with their unfriendly propaganda that you may observe in RT. The attitudes are generally polarized and favoring the Serbian interpretation in extreme bias (this after all we went through).

    Though we have NATO troops stationed here to guarantee peace and we are basically untouchable by that much, we have had other countries guaranteeing peace even before. We had Austria, Deutchland, Britain during the 1900's, but then they went to war with one another (tearing the guarantees with that).

    NATO troops may not always be here for it is costing them to be here, and sooner or later there may be other pressing priorities that may drive the troops away from here. You never know what may happen in the future. Out of all possibilities lets just take for instance something of a third origin. Whatever, lets say the weather and how it is expected that it too may cause future wars:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/enviro...post1062141195

    When other trouble may arise there is the risk of NATO troops attending other crisis and there may be a repeated drama from Serbs yet again. This may be the case especially since as you may see in RT they have highly polarized views about everything related to Dardania (e.g., Serbs are victims, we are terrorists, you are oppressors helping us terrorists, NATO is the third Reich, Our presidents are like Hitler, etc).

    Albania is a NATO member. The simplest solution to counter the negative attitudes before it spills into another drama would be for Dardania and Albania to unite. United we would have a chance against such prejudice and attitudes from Serbs and Russians, and all those, but with only 2 million people and very limited resources the situation is bleak. As it is we are highly reliant on you, and this may be costing you, and who knows what tomorrow would demand of you, for your interests instead of being here. This while united we could be of great help with you as a NATO member on our future endeavors together. Possibly liberating other countries like you did here.

    The thing is also that those 101 countries recognized and blessed Dardania as an independent country (not Albania). I think there is this feeling that there may be great disappointment from our supporters, they may think that we cheated on them by joining with Albania now. Secondly there is this conspiracy that if we join Albania, Vojvodina would want to join Hungary, that Hungarians in Slovakia would want to join Hungary, that Transilvania in Romania would want to join Hungary, Deutchland would want to take back its lost parts after WW2, and... you get the picture. We wanting to join would create a domino effect where all other countries would would to join and basically change the EU maps as they are.

    So in one hand there is a simple solution to the critical situation in Dardania by uniting with Albania. On the other hand there is this fear of disappointment (we made Dardania together after all) and conspiracy theories linked to this solution.

    But as it is it cannot stand indefinitely neither. So how about it my Politically Primed Peers (3P's for short). What are the solutions? Should we unite and break another wall, I mean, another border, for the convenience of a EU with less administrative borders now? Or should this be done later at some point for some reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/kv.html

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    The country that I call "Dardania" is in fact this: ...Kosovo...

    ....But, technically Dardania and Albania are the same people divided by force from Serbs during 1878 while the Ottoman Empire was retreating We have endured several...assimilation attempts from Serbs since then during: 1912, 1945, and the one you saw in 1999.

    ...I think there is this feeling that there may be great disappointment from our supporters, they may think that we cheated on them by joining with Albania now. Secondly there is this conspiracy that if we join Albania, Vojvodina would want to join Hungary, that Hungarians in Slovakia would want to join Hungary, that Transilvania in Romania would want to join Hungary, Deutchland would want to take back its lost parts after WW2, and... you get the picture. We wanting to join would create a domino effect where all other countries would would to join and basically change the EU maps as they are.

    ...What are the solutions? Should we unite and break another wall, I mean, another border, for the convenience of a EU with less administrative borders now? Or should this be done later at some point for some reason?
    Well first, stop confusing us by using the name "Dardania!" LOL JK I spent a while trying to find a current map of a territory that hasn't existed since the Pre-Roman times.

    Seriously though, the first question is what ethnic groups besides Albanians reside in Kosovo and in what numbers? If ethnic Serbs dominate why shouldn't it be a part of Serbia? If some other ethnicity is dominant, why wouldn't it be part of that country?

    However, if ethnic Albanians dominate the entire territory and a plebiscite were held in which a 2/3 majority of ALL citizens voted for unification, no one in the USA would object. It is also unlikely that any other nation that recognized Kosovo would object either.

    As for a "domino effect?" As long as a majority of citizens in each territory elected to do that, why should it matter? Ignore the Germans, they have no territorial issues beyond allowing any areas predominantly German to re-unite with the Fatherland as was the case with East Germany. The Fascists aren't in charge there anymore.

    So, if you think your people can organize a plebiscite while the U.N. forces are still there to make sure it's peaceful; that includes every voting citizen, and achieves the required majority? Then go for it.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 08-04-13 at 07:48 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    no...
    PeteEU

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    It was a mistake by the US and EU to support the secession of Kosovo from Serbia. But that is done now. Obviously it is not a viable state. If it were to integrate with Albania, however, this would destabilize Albania, as well as FYROM. And obviously, in such a scenario the Serbian areas of Kosovo should reunite with Serbia.

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    no...
    Really? And what's YOUR stake in this issue skippy? The Kosovar broke away from Serbia, and the only thing stopping Serbian aggression and civil war is a U.N. peacekeeping force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artevelde View Post
    It was a mistake by the US and EU to support the secession of Kosovo from Serbia. But that is done now. Obviously it is not a viable state. If it were to integrate with Albania, however, this would destabilize Albania, as well as FYROM. And obviously, in such a scenario the Serbian areas of Kosovo should reunite with Serbia.
    Same question goes for you. Are you a resident of the territory? What would be wrong with a plebiscite, or a series of regional plebiscites to ensure ethnic majorities can live in a unified nation? As for destabilizing Albania? How would adding more ethnic Albanians and their resident territories destabilize Albania? I would think it would add resources, not detract them.

    I am all for nations and peoples within nations determining their own destinies without outside interference. That's why I oppose U.S. and Russian intervention in Syria. Whatever system arises within a nation is fine by me as long as the people of that nation "worked it out" amongst themselves.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Really? And what's YOUR stake in this issue skippy? The Kosovar broke away from Serbia, and the only thing stopping Serbian aggression and civil war is a U.N. peacekeeping force.
    Exactly and now they want to join Albania? talk about adding fuel to the fire. On top of that, Albania is a nation of organised crime, and we suddenly want to expand its borders even more? Sorry but I am not one who likes adding more problems to the table. The so called nation of Dardani has not existed for 2000 years.. come on.. And Dardani was more than just Albania and Kosovo.. which causes problems, when they want back parts of Greece, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and so on..

    What is next.. establishing the ancient kingdom of Tartessos on the coast near of Cadiz, Spain?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Exactly and now they want to join Albania? talk about adding fuel to the fire. On top of that, Albania is a nation of organised crime, and we suddenly want to expand its borders even more? Sorry but I am not one who likes adding more problems to the table. The so called nation of Dardani has not existed for 2000 years.. come on.. And Dardani was more than just Albania and Kosovo.. which causes problems, when they want back parts of Greece, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and so on..

    What is next.. establishing the ancient kingdom of Tartessos on the coast near of Cadiz, Spain?
    The question was about unification with Albania, not remaining an independent state. So in that respect your reference to ancient Dardani (or Tartessos) is irrelelvent. I notice the Basque haven't given up on their ideas about independence yet either, eh? (http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/20...-julen-zabalo/)

    So let's see, you argue that Albania is a nation of criminals, so why add to the population? Better to let ethnic albanians suffer ethnic cleansing and reduce the surplus population of "criminals" then? Stereotyping is not a valid argument, since who knows? Maybe adding population from Kosovar will add more educated people to the mix and help reduce crime in Albania. Maybe not, but at least all the bad eggs would be in one basket and you E.U. states can use Interpol to fix the problem.

    BTW, see what belief in "domino effect" politics did to my country in regards to Vietnam? I say let the people decide where they want to be and leave it at that.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 08-04-13 at 08:53 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    The question was about unification with Albania, not remaining an independent state. So in that respect your reference to ancient Dardani (or Tartessos) is irrelelvent.
    It is highly relevant. Not only does the OP use the ancient word for the area, but the combination of Albania and Kosvo would put most of Dardani together again and I have my serious doubts that the nationalists would be happy with that.

    And do you know what Tartessos is?

    I notice the Basque haven't given up on their ideas about independence yet either, eh? (http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/20...-julen-zabalo/)
    Nope they have not, and still is stupid. Small nations dont fare well on the global stage... coming from a small nation myself... I should know.

    So let's see, you argue that Albania is a nation of criminals, so why add to the population? Better to let ethnic albanians suffer ethnic cleansing and reduce the surplus population of "criminals" then? Stereotyping is not a valid argument, since who knows? Maybe adding population from Kosovar will add more educated people to the mix and help reduce crime in Albania. Maybe not, but at least all the bad eggs would be in one basket and you E.U. states can use Interpol to fix the problem.
    First off..Interpol has nothing to do with the EU.

    Secondly, Albania has a massive problem with organized crime and it has spread beyond its borders. I read somewhere that most of Southern Europes stolen cars end up in Albania. It is the main reason that the EU has put off serious negotiations for membership. It is not a trivial matter, and considering that Kosovo sits between Albania and Serbia ... another highly problematic country with organised crime issues.. then frankly why add to the problem?

    BTW, see what belief in "domino effect" politics did to my country in regards to Vietnam? I say let the people decide where they want to be and leave it at that.
    I agree, but not as long as it starts to break up countries for no other reason that some non existent nationalist pride which is in reality a power grab by a few people.

    Like it or not, the people living in the area have very little to do with the so called nation of Dardani.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It is highly relevant. Not only does the OP use the ancient word for the area, but the combination of Albania and Kosvo would put most of Dardani together again and I have my serious doubts that the nationalists would be happy with that. And do you know what Tartessos is?
    Nope, it remains irrelevant because as of right now Kosovo remains separate from Serbia, and has been recognized as independent by MY country. Furthermore, all of the current Balkan states broke away from Yugoslavia, and none have any particular right to claim other segments as their own since their very existence of each is based on such breakaway grounds.

    Nothing wrong with setting up a plebiscite and letting the residents decide if they'd like to join Albania, rejoin Serbia, or even remain independent. It's still no business of yours, unless you intend to live there? (And yes, I am aware of "Tartessos," which does not matter because it is also irrelevant to the OP's issue.)


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Nope they have not, and still is stupid. Small nations dont fare well on the global stage... coming from a small nation myself... I should know.
    Aren't you a resident of Spain? You consider Spain a "small country?" Relative to what, China? The USA? Russia? There are a lot of small countries doing quite well thank you very much; your personal opinion notwithstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Secondly, Albania has a massive problem with organized crime and it has spread beyond its borders. I read somewhere that most of Southern Europes stolen cars end up in Albania. It is the main reason that the EU has put off serious negotiations for membership. It is not a trivial matter, and considering that Kosovo sits between Albania and Serbia ... another highly problematic country with organised crime issues.. then frankly why add to the problem?
    My response? So what! The USA has a "massive problem with crime." Does that mean if one of the territories we happen to control votes to join us as a State we should automatically reject them? Again, this nonsense is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether or not a people sharing the same ethinic ties should or should not have the right to vote on reuniting with their country of origin. If you have problems with organized crime in your country, and some happen to be Albanian mobs, fix the problem IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY! If you think the national government of Albania actively supports these activities, declare war and kick some ass. Otherwise, who cares?

    I reiterate, democratic processes fairly conducted have my full support in settling this question.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Has time came for unification?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Well first, stop confusing us by using the name "Dardania!" LOL JK I spent a while trying to find a current map of a territory that hasn't existed since the Pre-Roman times.
    Well ah, you know me, I made some research. It all started with a simple question "What the heck does Kosovo mean in Albanian?" It turned out it does not. Either the Serbs named us as such or it happened sometime while they were retreating from our lands. This was the repeated pattern until the time when we named these lands with our name. It was then Dardania, meaning still today "Pearland" in ancient Albanian, since we love and farmed pearls a lot around here then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Seriously though, the first question is what ethnic groups besides Albanians reside in Kosovo and in what numbers? If ethnic Serbs dominate why shouldn't it be a part of Serbia? If some other ethnicity is dominant, why wouldn't it be part of that country?

    However, if ethnic Albanians dominate the entire territory and a plebiscite were held in which a 2/3 majority of ALL citizens voted for unification, no one in the USA would object. It is also unlikely that any other nation that recognized Kosovo would object either.
    Despite severe hardships, destructive plans, incredible superpower occupations, throughout time, and throughout 2000 years we were always here a majority. Your statement that USA and other EU nations would not object is very comforting. Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    As for a "domino effect?" As long as a majority of citizens in each territory elected to do that, why should it matter? Ignore the Germans, they have no territorial issues beyond allowing any areas predominantly German to re-unite with the Fatherland as was the case with East Germany. The Fascists aren't in charge there anymore.
    We are in no position to care whether Deutchland wants to have its territories back to fatherland. The situation though may be reversed. Deutchland, Britain, and other European supporters to our cause, and especially the few EU non supporters, may raise false alarms over this issue. They would find silliest of reasons such as: crime, nationalism, etc, to be against unification. This even though it is costly for NATO troops to be here as mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    So, if you think your people can organize a plebiscite while the U.N. forces are still there to make sure it's peaceful; that includes every voting citizen, and achieves the required majority? Then go for it.
    Plebiscite, got it, thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/kv.html

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