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Norway gets tough on mass murder

Alas, if only I was an 'enlightened' European leftist and filled with sympathy and understanding for the poor murderers. Undoubtedly the victim of a deprived childhood, we should be thinking about ways to help him and make his time in prison, however brief, more pleasant for him. Silly us, thinking the punishment should fit the crime.

But thanks for proving my point. Again.
 
The "maximum sentencing" in Norway seems to just be a slightly different version of parole, except the burden of proof of the criminal's continued threat to society would be put onto the state. Now, I cannot see into the future, but it shouldn't be too hard to prove, even to those "bleeding-heart lefties" in Norway, that a man who shoots 77 people and shows zero remorse over it would be a threat. Let's ignore the fact that Breivik stands about the same chance of being released as there is of me being Al Capone, though. What else was the judge supposed to do? Norway has a this crazy thing called "the rule of law", and it states that criminals cannot be initially sentenced for more than 21 years. Now they could change the law for future criminals, but retroactively changing the law to attack one person, even a monster like Breivik, flies completely in the face of that.
 
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Wiggen said:
Alas, if only I was an 'enlightened' European leftist and filled with sympathy and understanding for the poor murderers. Undoubtedly the victim of a deprived childhood, we should be thinking about ways to help him and make his time in prison, however brief, more pleasant for him. Silly us, thinking the punishment should fit the crime.

But thanks for proving my point. Again.
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has nothing to do with being enlightened or being a European Leftist its about having a basic understanding on how Norways legal system works. Not one person in this thread has said they want him to be freed early. What they are saying ( something you seem not able to grasp) is that this killer will never be realsed and they will just extend his sentence after the 21 years. No one is talking about him being released early except you Wiggen.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
The "maximum sentencing" in Norway seems to just be a slightly different version of parole, except the burden of proof of the criminal's continued threat to society would be put onto the state. Now, I cannot see into the future, but it shouldn't be too hard to prove, even to those "bleeding-heart lefties" in Norway, that a man who shoots 77 people and shows zero remorse over it would be a threat. Let's ignore the fact that Breivik stands about the same chance of being released as there is of me being Al Capone, though. What else was the judge supposed to do? Norway has a this crazy thing called "the rule of law", and it states that criminals cannot be initially sentenced for more than 21 years. Now they could change the law for future criminals, but retroactively changing the law to attack one person, even a monster like Breivik, flies completely in the face of that.
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Here's a thought. Change the frickin' sentencing laws! The fact that this stupid law was in effect in Norway is a product of the entire 'enlightened' approach to justice in Europe generally and Norway in particular.
 
Higgins86 said:
has nothing to do with being enlightened or being a European Leftist its about having a basic understanding on how Norways legal system works. Not one person in this thread has said they want him to be freed early. What they are saying ( something you seem not able to grasp) is that this killer will never be realsed and they will just extend his sentence after the 21 years. No one is talking about him being released early except you Wiggen.
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Except, of course, you have no way of knowing any of this. A life sentence without the possibility of parole means no chance. This means some chance.

I'm supposed to rejoice that none of you think he will be released early? Given the general attitude in Europe towards criminals, I'd say it doesn't leave me with any feeling of joy at all.
 
Higgins86 said:
so your saying that no one has ever re-offended in America?
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Yes, unfortunately we have our bleeding hearts here, too. Fools who actually think murderers can be redeemed or rehabilitated.

I'll guarantee you one thing, however. Mass murderers don't have any possibility of being released after ten years. Zero. None.
 
Wiggen said:
Except, of course, you have no way of knowing any of this. A life sentence without the possibility of parole means no chance. This means some chance.

I'm supposed to rejoice that none of you think he will be released early? Given the general attitude in Europe towards criminals, I'd say it doesn't leave me with any feeling of joy at all.
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Anyone with a shred of common sense knows he will never be realeased.
if only every country could adopt Americas perfect system....
 
Strawman. I never said America's system was perfect, and you know it. What I did say is that if he'd murdered 77 people here - or 7 people - he'd either be on death row or in some maximum security prison for the rest of his miserable life. And a maximum security prison here isn't like one of your prisons. It's solitary confinement for 23 out of 24 hours every day. Terribly harsh, I know.

But then you knew that, didn't you?
 
Wiggen said:
Here's a thought. Change the frickin' sentencing laws! The fact that this stupid law was in effect in Norway is a product of the entire 'enlightened' approach to justice in Europe generally and Norway in particular.
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The law couldn't apply to Breivik anyway. He's already been charged, and making laws to target a single person flies in the face of the rule of law. Besides, he is not getting released in 21 years, or ever. How is this any different than parole here in the US, except the burden of proof is on the board. The pride that Breivik displayed in his trial probably means that he isn't going to have a change of heart.
 
Again, you have no idea whether he will be released or not. None. Beyond that, however, a sentence like that sends a clear signal to the rest of the criminal population that no matter how many innocents you slaughter, there's always hope for you that one day you'll get out.

Life in prison without the possibility of parole means exactly that in this country. Or didn't you know that?
 
Wiggen said:
Again, you have no idea whether he will be released or not. None. Beyond that, however, a sentence like that sends a clear signal to the rest of the criminal population that no matter how many innocents you slaughter, there's always hope for you that one day you'll get out.

Life in prison without the possibility of parole means exactly that in this country. Or didn't you know that?
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You're right. He could get let out, and a gorilla could break down my door. Charles Manson could also get released. Does that bother you? Or are you only worried about those crazy Europeans?
 
Wiggen said:
Yes, unfortunately we have our bleeding hearts here, too. Fools who actually think murderers can be redeemed or rehabilitated.
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Yep. I remember Willie Horton.
 
Wiggen said:
Yes, unfortunately we have our bleeding hearts here, too. Fools who actually think murderers can be redeemed or rehabilitated.
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Has every American prisoner who committed murder stayed behind bars for ever? No parole? That seems what you are arguing for.

Wiggen said:
I'll guarantee you one thing, however. Mass murderers don't have any possibility of being released after ten years. Zero. None.
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Same for Brievik, same in the UK when a whole life order is made.

Wiggen said:
Again, you have no idea whether he will be released or not. None. Beyond that, however, a sentence like that sends a clear signal to the rest of the criminal population that no matter how many innocents you slaughter, there's always hope for you that one day you'll get out.

Life in prison without the possibility of parole means exactly that in this country. Or didn't you know that?
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I'm pretty certain any country that has a prison sentence that says "life without parole" sticks to what is said. For example again- the "whole life" order that UK judges can use.
 
You call that prison? He has been given a private micro-mini 3-room luxury apartment with a computer and gym.

Norwegian mass killer
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
You're right. He could get let out, and a gorilla could break down my door. Charles Manson could also get released. Does that bother you? Or are you only worried about those crazy Europeans?
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Well, I'm worried about any judicial system that focuses on the criminals at the expense of the general public. That happens whenever bleeding hearts take over the process, as they have done throughout much of Europe. There is far more concern for the well-being of the criminal.

Try and follow along: "Life in Prison without the possibility of parole". Or the needle. Either one removes a threat to society permanently.
 
RDS said:
You call that prison? He has been given a private micro-mini 3-room luxury apartment with a computer and gym.

Norwegian mass killer
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It's the european approach to punishment. Let's make it as comfortable as possible for the mass murderer. I wish I could say this surprises me, but it doens't.
 
Wiggen said:
It's the european approach to punishment. Let's make it as comfortable as possible for the mass murderer. I wish I could say this surprises me, but it doens't.
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lol Wiggen why are you so upset about this? Most people in Norway are happy with the sentence and most legal experts have come out and said that the man will rot in prison for life!
You get so defensive when people say anything negative about America but yet its fine for you to attack Norways legal system ( of which you know little about). If this guy had shot Americans at the American embassy then I could understand but he attacked his own people and its upto Norway to punish him not you.
 
Yes, because I'm not allowed to be outraged by what happens in other countries. Whatever you say.
 
Wiggen said:
Yes, because I'm not allowed to be outraged by what happens in other countries. Whatever you say.
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you can be outraged yes but your using this event to attack the whole of Europe...seems a little desperate
 
It's so typically 'European', however. Hard not to label you all the same as the Norwegians when it comes to punishing murderers, since Europe is notoriously weak in finding appropriate punishments for violent offenders. You are so bound and determined to prove to the rest of us - and especially the U.S. - how far you've evolved beyond the mere notion of punishing criminals and safeguarding society.
 
Wiggen said:
It's so typically 'European', however. Hard not to label you all the same as the Norwegians when it comes to punishing murderers, since Europe is notoriously weak in finding appropriate punishments for violent offenders. You are so bound and determined to prove to the rest of us - and especially the U.S. - how far you've evolved beyond the mere notion of punishing criminals and safeguarding society.
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Indeed, the European basis for judicial process is based on how much it will piss off America. The Norwegians were going to sentence Brevik to life, but they changed it to 21 years just so they could lord it over us. In fact, they even called up Obama and made comments about the barbarism of the uncivilized Americans while sipping Chateu La Fete and nibbling brie.
 
Wiggen said:
It's so typically 'European', however. Hard not to label you all the same as the Norwegians when it comes to punishing murderers, since Europe is notoriously weak in finding appropriate punishments for violent offenders. You are so bound and determined to prove to the rest of us - and especially the U.S. - how far you've evolved beyond the mere notion of punishing criminals and safeguarding society.
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wow get over yourself Wiggen! lol Norway could not care less what Sweden thinks about them never mind the US.
 
rathi said:
Indeed, the European basis for judicial process is based on how much it will piss off America. The Norwegians were going to sentence Brevik to life, but they changed it to 21 years just so they could lord it over us. In fact, they even called up Obama and made comments about the barbarism of the uncivilized Americans while sipping Chateu La Fete and nibbling brie.
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No, they sentenced him to 10-21 years because they're Europeans, and they're so civilized and so sophisticated that they don't go in for actually punishing criminals.

But thanks for participating. I'm sure you're in full agreement with a sentence of 4 months for every person murdered.
 
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