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British schools drop Holocaust from history lessons to not offend Muslims [W:48]

Dittohead not! said:
There you go injecting a boring old fact into a scintillating discussion about how the Muslim Threat is taking over Britain.
Click to expand...
Another Peanut gallery/Cheerleading post.
You contribute -0- factual material here, just pile on.
The fact that it's "National Curriculum" does NOT mean everyone is abiding by it. In fact there's evidence to the Contrary.

Manc's post was pretty Irrelevant to whether or not teachers in areas with a high percent of Muslims are ducking the requirement as well as going soft on Crusades and Other 'controversial' [inconvenient to Islam] history. That is the point.
They have, consistent with this, [also] dropped Pork from several Hundred schools as the OP has also been Vindicated on. And so much more in the in the UK's accommodationalism.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Teaching the Holocaust, which is the basis of the duplicitous OP, is part of the National curriculum, which is required to be taught in all state schools. It is not optional.
Click to expand...

:profIn my opinion it should be optional, if there is a consensus for it.

Why is the death's of ten's of million's of Russian civilans who died in ww2, not required?
 
Teaching about civil rights and racism is a touchy subject as well, but, it is still taught in the US. The whole idea that an issue may be sensitive is a bunch of nonsense. Civilization and society cannot progress without looking at the past in all it's triumph, tragedy, ugliness and triumph of the human spirit.

This is from the study cited in the article....

There are also those issues which are emotive and controversial because they continue to have general contemporary significance or personal resonance for students. Potential examples of such issues from Key Stage 3 include the Crusades, the Partition of India, the Holocaust, the transatlantic slave trade, Irish history and the history of immigration to Britain. In contemporary Britain, where ethnic and cultural divisions occasionally lead to direct interracial violence and where recent events have led to heightened racial tensions, learning about the legacy of Britain’s colonial past and about the relationship between the West and Islam are potentially the most controversial and challenging aspects of the Key Stage 3 history curriculum.

The revisions to the Key Stage 3 curriculum are likely to focus teaching even more on issues which have the potential to be sensitive, such as the changing nature of political power, the relationship between rulers and the ruled and the development of democracy, the changing relationships of the peoples of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, how movement and settlement have shaped the British Isles, the nature of empires, the changes in the lives of men, women and children including work, technology, leisure, culture, religion and environment, or the changing nature of conflict and its lasting impact on national, ethnic, racial, cultural or religious groups.
Click to expand...

https://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/RW100.pdf
 
mbig said:
Another Peanut gallery/Cheerleading post.
You contribute -0- factual material here, just pile on.
The fact that it's "National Curriculum" does NOT mean everyone is abiding by it. In fact there's evidence to the Contrary.

Manc's post was pretty Irrelevant to whether or not teachers in areas with a high percent of Muslims are ducking the requirement as well as going soft on Crusades and Other 'controversial' [inconvenient to Islam] history. That is the point.
They have, consistent with this, [also] dropped Pork from several Hundred schools as the OP has also been Vindicated on. And so much more in the in the UK's accommodationalism.
Click to expand...

It looked pretty relevant to me, and definitive as well. No matter, though, the premise of this thread was shot out of the water early on anyway.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It looked pretty relevant to me...
Click to expand...
Subjective, fallacious, factless; as all your entries here. No 'why' included.

Dittohead said:
No matter, though, the premise of this thread was shot out of the water early on anyway.
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No it wasn't.
See post #17 un-"shooting" every point. Or try tackling one.

and again lease start putting ON topic material in your posts, not merely cheerleading/emptily saying "good post"/"bad post" about everything. It serves No purpose here. Now 3-fer-3 with No information or refutation. Cheerleading/whoring.
 
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Infinite Chaos said:
The point of your thread seems to be about British society pandering to muslims but the story you now rely on to "save your bacon" is about some schools dropping pork for muslim AND jewish students...
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I already addressed that nonsense.
Me: "This article says for 'Muslims and Jews' (to be PC) but if it was for Jews, it's kinda late (absurd), as opposed to the burgeoning Muslim population in the areas named.

How obtuse would one have to be to think this was for Jewish Students! In, Luton, Bradford, Tower Hamlets, areas of exploding Muslim population.. all of a sudden they care about a few hundred or few thousand Jews
in those areas with now 50 or 100 times as many Muslims, most new.
Sure it's about Muslims "AND" Jews.
How RIDICULOUS.
How RIDICULOUS.
As usual with you it's just absurd 'debate'.
If it was just the two of us I wouldn't bother, but there are other people here who actually support your inane posts.
Did they ban Pork for the Jewish Influx between 1935 and 1945 or the Muslim one from 1995-2011 while Jews dwindled?

InfinteChaos said:
Basically it's a non-event if you are seeking something to show that the UK speaks with an Arab voice but you do have a point if this is about political correctness in a couple of London boroughs. Well, that one's a big deal - schools have dropped all sorts of things because of the risk of being sued but that doesn't help your thread does it?
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So now you are admitting this has been done or not?

IC said:
Also, you should look up some history if you think East London has no large jewish population
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Let's take a look at just the first I tried.
Bradford.

BBC - Bradford and West Yorkshire - History - The Jewish connection!
"...What remains today?

There are about 500 Jews in Bradford but most of the children and grand children of the early merchant princes are Not to be found...
Click to expand...
Muslims?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford#Demographics said:
"...22.1% of the population are of British Asian origin, this percentage being part of the 26.1% above, the third highest percentage of South Asians in a single settlement in England and Wales behind the city of Leicester (29.9%) and the London Borough of Tower Hamlets. Nearly half of all Asians living in Yorkshire and the Humber live in Bradford...
Click to expand...
Too few Jews to even be mentioned in Wiki.

So you have 22% of 300,000 people are of Asian origin... ergo 66,000 people vs 500 Jews. (the latter 2008)
And that was 2001 Census for the Asian population.
I'd venture it's now more like 100,000 Asians vs 500 [remaining] Jews.
Sure, after 200 Years of Jewish history there and a dwindling population.. they removed Pork for the what? 40 Jewish students or 100,000 First and second generation Muslims? LOFL!

IC said:
In their own words - "The Holocaust Educational Trust was established in 1988. Our aim is to educate young people from every background about the Holocaust and the important lessons to be learned for today. The Trust works in schools, universities and in the community to raise awareness and understanding of the Holocaust, providing teacher training, an outreach programme for schools, teaching aids and resource material. One of our earliest achievements was ensuring that the Holocaust formed part of the National Curriculum for History. We continue to play a leading role in training teachers on how best to teach the Holocaust. Link"
Click to expand...
I already addressed HET.
The fact that they exist doesn't Refute that Some teachers in Muslim areas are dropping Controversial (To Muslims) History on not just the Holocaust but but Crusades.
You reposting HET's mission statement is Inane/non-sequiter, and does NOT go to the issue at hand nor prevent teachers avoiding the issue.
The fact that organizations exist to fight or educate on bias, doesn't prevent it.
Our Science Education orgs don't prevent schools in the Bible Belt from teaching Creationsim as an alternative to evolution.

I am a contributor to Home - Media Menu - The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous
That doesn't mean all the teachers in the USA teach anything.
Shall I do as you fallaciously do.. just read their mission statement and activities to 'prove' no one denies the Holocaust.
Your posts are all beyond illogical.​
 
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mbig said:
I already addressed that nonsense.
Me: "This article says for 'Muslims and Jews' (to be PC) but if it was for Jews, it's kinda late (absurd), as opposed to the burgeoning Muslim population in the areas named.

How obtuse would one have to be to think this was for Jewish Students! In, Luton, Bradford, Tower Hamlets, areas of exploding Muslim population.. all of a sudden they care about a few hundred or few thousand Jews
in those areas with now 50 or 100 times as many Muslims, most new.
Sure it's about Muslims "AND" Jews.
How RIDICULOUS.
How RIDICULOUS.
As usual with you it's just absurd 'debate'.
If it was just the two of us I wouldn't bother, but there are other people here who actually support your inane posts.
Did they ban Pork for the Jewish Influx between 1935 and 1945 or the Muslim one from 1995-2011 while Jews dwindled?​
Click to expand...


How predictable. You have fallen for the old fallacy that the large numbers of jews who came to Britain have disappeared or left the country so you now try and paint the picture that jews do not exist in London and the UK in the same number.

What is ridiculous is that you are desperately trying to revive an argument shot through by myself and others on page 1 with that tired old tripe.

Jewish Population of UK on increase- the link also demonstrates that many jews intermarried with British people and lived secular lives, another reason for the supposed drop in number.

Europe's biggest Hasidic Jewish population lives in London. I told you this three years ago when I mentioned how some come to our university campus every summer to stay in our halls of residence.

If anyone is obtuse and speaking nonsense it would be to try and ignore those facts (backed up by the UK census) and pretend something bigger is at play here.


mbig said:
So now you are admitting this has been done or not?
Click to expand...

Sure, in London schools where there are a large number of Orthodox Jews and Muslims, political correctness by a few London boroughs has led to there being no pork / pig products in schools. You are trying to pretend 1) Jews have disappeared to this is "muslim appeasement"

mbig said:
Let's take a look at just the first I tried.
Bradford.
Click to expand...

Yes, Bradford is not in London. There's some free geography for you. Bradford is however near Manchester where the largest Jewish population in the UK lives. Jews from Liverpool / Leeds / Preston etc have been moving for years to Manchester. Gunner's thread you didn't get involved in - http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/104733-multiculturalism-work.html

mbig said:
BBC - Bradford and West Yorkshire - History - The Jewish connection!

Muslims?
Too few Jews to even be mentioned in Wiki.

So you have 22% of 300,000 people are of Asian origin... ergo 66,000 people vs 500 Jews. (the latter 2008)
And that was 2001 Census for the Asian population.
I'd venture it's now more like 100,000 Asians vs 500 [remaining] Jews.
Sure, after 200 Years of Jewish history there and a dwindling population.. they removed Pork for the what? 40 Jewish students or 100,000 First and second generation Muslims? LOFL!
Click to expand...

Debunked above.

mbig said:
I already addressed HET.
The fact that they exist doesn't Refute that Some teachers in Muslim areas are dropping Controversial (To Muslims) History on not just the Holocaust but but Crusades.
You reposting HET's mission statement is Inane/non-sequiter, and does NOT go to the issue at hand nor prevent teachers avoiding the issue.
The fact that organizations exist to fight or educate on bias, doesn't prevent it.
Our Science Education orgs don't prevent schools in the Bible Belt from teaching Creationsim as an alternative to evolution.
Click to expand...

Debunked earlier.

mbig said:
I am a contributor to Home - Media Menu - The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous
That doesn't mean all the teachers in the USA teach anything.
Shall I do as you fallaciously do.. just read their mission statement and activities to 'prove' no one denies the Holocaust.
Your posts are all beyond illogical.
Click to expand...

Nothing of substance there. You really should learn about Jewish history in the UK then you wouldn't embarrass yourself.​
 
mbig said:
Primo example of what we should NOT be doing in the name of Multi-Culti. Dropping actual and secular history (Holocaust+Crusades, etc) to accommodate the Lies Muslims are taught in their religious schools in the name of Islam. Not radical Islam, Islam.
And do we drop pork for the Jews? Beef for the Hindus?
One religion makes and gets demands met.
Submission.org

British schools drop Holocaust from history lessons so as not to offend Muslims - National Libertarian | Examiner.com
BY: HOWARD PORTNOY
AUGUST 17, 2012
What's the Muslim population of Scotalnd? 1%? (Wiki says .9%).
Absurd demands - Ridiculous accommodationalism. Islam rules, 1 vs 99.
Click to expand...

I really don't think it has sunk in yet...... (from 2008)

"The UK government is taking the unprecedented step of writing to every embassy to stop a false e-mail rumour about Holocaust teaching being banned.
A widely-circulated e-mail has falsely claimed that schools in the UK will stop teaching the Holocaust because it might cause offence to Muslims.

Schools Secretary Ed Balls says he wants to "put an end once and for all to the myth" spread by the e-mail.

He says teaching the Holocaust remains "non-negotiable" in England. This formal government rebuttal of a hoax e-mail has been prompted by a persistent rumour that "UK schools" are set to remove the Holocaust from the curriculum."
(.....)


"I am pleased to confirm that this is absolutely not the case. Teaching of the Holocaust is compulsory in all secondary schools between the ages of 11 and 14.

"We are clear that there are certain non-negotiable subjects, which are protected in schools; one of those is the Holocaust.
"There is no evidence that schools are breaking the rules and not teaching the Holocaust.

"We also fund visits for young people from every secondary school and college to go to Auschwitz"


BBC NEWS | UK | Education | UK government acts on hoax e-mail


Paul
 
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gunner said:
I really don't think it has sunk in yet...... (from 2008)

"The UK government is taking the unprecedented step of writing to every embassy to stop a false e-mail rumour about Holocaust teaching being banned.
A widely-circulated e-mail has falsely claimed that schools in the UK will stop teaching the Holocaust because it might cause offence to Muslims.

Schools Secretary Ed Balls says he wants to "put an end once and for all to the myth" spread by the e-mail.

He says teaching the Holocaust remains "non-negotiable" in England. This formal government rebuttal of a hoax e-mail has been prompted by a persistent rumour that "UK schools" are set to remove the Holocaust from the curriculum."
(.....)


"I am pleased to confirm that this is absolutely not the case. Teaching of the Holocaust is compulsory in all secondary schools between the ages of 11 and 14.

"We are clear that there are certain non-negotiable subjects, which are protected in schools; one of those is the Holocaust.
"There is no evidence that schools are breaking the rules and not teaching the Holocaust.

"We also fund visits for young people from every secondary school and college to go to Auschwitz"


BBC NEWS | UK | Education | UK government acts on hoax e-mail


Paul
Click to expand...

If I played basketball - I'd call that post a "slam dunk." I can't think of the UK sporting equivalent but thanks for the link, I hadn't come across that hoax email story before.
 
IC said:
How predictable. You have fallen for the old fallacy that the large numbers of jews who came to Britain have disappeared or left the country so you now try and paint the picture that jews do not exist in London and the UK in the same number.

What is ridiculous is that you are desperately trying to revive an argument shot through by myself and others on page 1 with that tired old tripe.
Jewish Population of UK on increase- the link also demonstrates that many jews intermarried with British people and lived secular lives, another reason for the supposed drop in number.
Europe's biggest Hasidic Jewish population lives in London. I told you this three years ago when I mentioned how some come to our university campus every summer to stay in our halls of residence.

If anyone is obtuse and speaking nonsense it would be to try and ignore those facts (backed up by the UK census) and pretend something bigger is at play here.
Click to expand...
I haven't fallen into any trap.
You are talking about Overall UK. For which the Jewish population was dropping until 2005 according to YOUR links.
At any time from WWII and the influx.. did they cut Pork from Public schools for Jews? NO.
The "trap" is you Dishonestly switching from the areas in question, East London and (Pork and edu) to overall UK.
You are embarrassing yourself not just on local Jews but, as always, on not being able to stay on point.


IC said:
Sure, in London schools where there are a large number of Orthodox Jews and Muslims, political correctness by a few London boroughs has led to there being no pork / pig products in schools. You are trying to pretend 1) Jews have disappeared to this is "muslim appeasement"
......Yes, Bradford is not in London. There's some free geography for you. Bradford is however near Manchester where the largest Jewish population in the UK lives. Jews from Liverpool / Leeds / Preston etc have been moving for years to Manchester. Gunner's thread you didn't get involved in -http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...lism-work.html (Multiculturaliat work?)
Click to expand...
The areas mentioned where Pork has been eliminated ARE Bradford, Luton, Newham, Tower Hamlets. Those are the relevant areas, not North London where the Jewish population has, according to your links grown. That's Not where Pork was banned.

You've Dishonestly, not only switched areas (from East London), but wholly dropped the areas cited. Those areas, again, where New First and second generation Muslims have exploded and Dwarf Jews. Ergo, the Pork bans.. for MUSLIMS, Not Muslims "AND" Jews. There are little-to-no Jews in Bradford as I showed. (The other areas mentioned also exploding Muslim population ones. Still uncontested.
Wiki numbers in my last. 100,000 Muslims, 500 Jews. Pork Ban for in Bradford for Jews?
LOFL (Still)

IC said:
Debunked above.
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Ergo NOT "debunked, it was your usual Dishonest "Deflected."

mbig said:
I already addressed HET.
The fact that they exist doesn't Refute that Some teachers in Muslim areas are dropping Controversial (To Muslims) History on not just the Holocaust but but Crusades.
You reposting HET's mission statement is Inane/non-sequiter, and does NOT go to the issue at hand nor prevent teachers avoiding the issue.
The fact that organizations exist to fight or educate on bias, doesn't prevent it.
Our Science Education orgs don't prevent schools in the Bible Belt from teaching Creationsim as an alternative to evolution.
Click to expand...
IC said:
Debunked earlier.
Click to expand...
Off the wall again.
HET's existence and mission statement in No way ensures the teaching of Holocaust (nor Crusades, of course) In Muslim area Public schools. Period.
Even you must understand this so now it's not just wrong- it's Lying last-word nonsense.


mbig said:
I am a contributor to Home - Media Menu - The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous
That doesn't mean all the teachers in the USA teach anything.
Shall I do as you fallaciously do.. just read their mission statement and activities to 'prove' no one denies the Holocaust.
Your posts are all beyond illogical.
Click to expand...
IC said:
Nothing of substance there. You really should learn about Jewish history in the UK then you wouldn't embarrass yourself.
Click to expand...
The "substance" was that just showing the existence of an organization that educates on the Holocaust in public schools, or posting their mission statement in NO way guarantees that will be done system wide. Especially and logically in this case where it might contradict what Muslim students are taught in their UK Madrassas or community.
You necessarily deal in Fallacy and deflection.

And it was me who posted the numbers for Bradford and named other places where the Muslim population has exploded and where Pork is being banned, The POINT at hand. While you posted irrelevant overall population to Obscure the point you Lost.
Still lost that is.

Your posts bizarre, illogical, deflections.. born of desperation/nowhere to go.
Again, they're so bad/dishonest/wacky I'd not respond but for the benefit of the board and showing them the continuing and worsening problem over the last year.
Gunner's are even wackier.
Higgins makes an indefensible post - and ergo wisely doesn't reply to me. But gunner hear's the general battle cry and will reflex to anything.
See my last reply to His Off-point post a few strings down.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...all-we-do-w-67-w-115-a-14.html#post1060809655
Here we are again. Does anyone know what he's trying to say/refute just above.
It's comical. He just wants to vent.... a piece of the fight... anything.

The responses in this string are desperate inanity. At least the better native posters are sitting out much of the action here - letting the expendable shock troops get Mowed down.
 
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mbig said:
I haven't fallen into any trap.
Click to expand...

Your whole thread is based on a hoax email. Talk your way out of that.

mbig said:
-- You are talking about Overall UK. For which the Jewish population was dropping until 2005 according to YOUR links.
Click to expand...

If you actually read what I said and the links demonstrate - many jews in the UK simply married with Brits - they and their offspring became secular.

mbig said:
At any time from WWII and the influx.. did they cut Pork from Public schools for Jews? NO.
Click to expand...

Muslims have been in the UK since before WWII - did they cut pork from schools for muslims and jews - NO. Was this political correctness after 7/7 - YES.

mbig said:
The "trap" is you Dishonestly switching from the areas in question, East London and (Pork and edu) to overall UK.
You are embarrassing yourself not just on local Jews but, as always, on not being able to stay on point.
Click to expand...

The dishonesty is your hoax email based thread, the other trap is your rubbished numbers and claim about British jews.

mbig said:
-- The areas mentioned where Pork has been eliminated ARE Bradford, Luton, Newham, Tower Hamlets. Those are the relevant areas, not North London where the Jewish population has, according to your links grown. That's Not where Pork was banned.
Click to expand...

Parental and student feedback to the schools is now a politically correct ban - the Telegraph report states this -

In Luton, 23 out of 57 schools which contract their dinners from the local authority have a “no pork” policy. In Bradford the figure is 24 out of 160; in Newham, east London, it is 25 out of 75; in Tower Hamlets, east London, it is 85 out of 90. In Haringey’s infant, junior and primary schools, 37 out of 47 serve no pork.


At Cypress Junior School, in Croydon, south London, Nicky Godetz, the head teacher, announced in this month’s newsletter that the school had opted for a pork-free menu “as a result of pupil and parental feedback”.

“The sausages served will now be chicken rather than pork,” she added.
Muslim and Jewish pupils are in a minority at the school, where most of the intake are of white British, black Caribbean or black African heritage. Link
Click to expand...

mbig said:
--You've Dishonestly, not only switched areas --
Click to expand...

The dishonesty is yours - OP and title thread " --British schools drop Holocaust from history lessons to not offend Muslims" and now the focus is - pork banned from schools in Jewish and Muslim areas.

mbig said:
--Ergo NOT "debunked, it was your usual Dishonest "Deflected."



Off the wall again.
HET's existence and mission statement in No way ensures the teaching of Holocaust (nor Crusades, of course) In Muslim area Public schools. Period.
Even you must understand this so now it's not just wrong- it's Lying last-word nonsense.




The "substance" was that just showing the existence of an organization that educates on the Holocaust in public schools, or posting their mission statement in NO way guarantees that will be done system wide. Especially and logically in this case where it might contradict what Muslim students are taught in their UK Madrassas or community.
You necessarily deal in Fallacy and deflection.

And it was me who posted the numbers for Bradford and named other places where the Muslim population has exploded and where Pork is being banned, The POINT at hand. While you posted irrelevant overall population to Obscure the point you Lost.
Still lost that is.

Your posts bizarre, illogical, deflections.. born of desperation/nowhere to go.
Again, they're so bad/dishonest/wacky I'd not respond but for the benefit of the board and showing them the continuing and worsening problem over the last year.
Gunner's are even wackier.
Higgins makes an indefensible post - and ergo wisely doesn't reply to me. But gunner hear's the general battle cry and will reflex to anything.
See my last reply to His Off-point post a few strings down.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...all-we-do-w-67-w-115-a-14.html#post1060809655
Here we are again. Does anyone know what he's trying to say/refute just above.
It's comical. He just wants to vent.... a piece of the fight... anything.

The responses in this string are desperate inanity. At least the better native posters are sitting out much of the action here - letting the expendable shock troops get Mowed down.
Click to expand...

Debunked mbig, you just don't have the honesty to accept your whole thread was based on your being fooled by a hoax email.
 
Debunked? Never, it's just a scratch!

CI_66489_1344008900.jpg
 
If we are to talk of Jews vs Muslims in the U.K., we should be talking about actual numbers as well as the attitudes of the people in question. THere are just under 3 million Muslims living in the U.K. by latest estimation and around 280000 Jews, so despite the efforts of the propagandists here would would try to paint them as similar, they are magnitudes different. The figures become even more disparate if you consider only the Hasidic Jews who tend to hold the same sorts of ultra-conservative views as the Muslims.

Seems to me that some people are so busy attempting to "debunk" something that they cannot be honest. The truth of the matter is that there are magnitudes more Muslims than Jews in the U.K., and that while the ultra conservative portion of the Jewish population is growing, it is still less than the liberal portion of the Jewish population and only a tiny percentage of the equally conservative Muslim.

Let's at least be honest enough to compare apples with apples here, shall we?
 
mbig-

I find it difficult to think someone who is a contributor on any news source could be so factually challenged in a debate.

First off, the switch from the topic you posted to pork, it that your go-to complaint? I would have figured you would have backrounded the Holocaust story before coming in here, you do that sort of thing on that other website you contribute on, why not here?

Second- I find your attempt to link WWII British social consciousness with Post-Empire world view lacking any sense at all. Think of all that has happened, what social barriers have come down. In the USofA we went from segregation to a Black President.

Third- The use of South Asia- It appears you use it and Muslim as if they are same/same. My map maybe different than yours but India occupies most of South Asia and it isn't Muslim.

It just seems to me you got caught off base and ran back to a favorite rant about pork. From my POV, switching to poultry based sausages is a healthier choice for kids, best if every school did it and you should thank the South Asians for their 'influence'... :peace
 
Gardener said:
If we are to talk of Jews vs Muslims in the U.K., we should be talking about actual numbers as well as the attitudes of the people in question. THere are just under 3 million Muslims living in the U.K. by latest estimation and around 280000 Jews
Click to expand...

Will you be honest enough to recognise that wasn't the point of the thread? The thread title was "British Schools drop holocaust from history lessons to not offend muslims.

Do you have anything on that please?

Gardener said:
so despite the efforts of the propagandists here
Click to expand...

Baiting noted.

Gardener said:
Seems to me that some people are so busy attempting to "debunk" something that they cannot be honest. The truth of the matter is that there are magnitudes more Muslims than Jews in the U.K., and that while the ultra conservative portion of the Jewish population is growing, it is still less than the liberal portion of the Jewish population and only a tiny percentage of the equally conservative Muslim.
Click to expand...

Can you prove that either -
1) history lessons in the UK now do not include the holocaust?
2) the claim that large numbers of jews have left the UK?

Gardener said:
Let's at least be honest enough to compare apples with apples here, shall we?
Click to expand...

Read the thread title and please stay on topic, derailing and baiting is no substitute for factual and accurate discussion.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Read the thread title and please stay on topic, derailing and baiting is no substitute for factual and accurate discussion.
Click to expand...

So, my responding to YOUR introduction of the issue of Jews vs Muslims is "derailing", while my listing the actual numbers in question represents the departure from a "factual and accurate" discussion?

One of your most famous countrymen wrote a book in 1948 detailing a futuristic world filled with such inversions of reality. His last name is now almost synonymous with the process you have used here.
 
mbig said:
Primo example of what we should NOT be doing in the name of Multi-Culti. Dropping actual and secular history (Holocaust+Crusades, etc) to accommodate the Lies Muslims are taught in their religious schools in the name of Islam. Not radical Islam, Islam.
And do we drop pork for the Jews? Beef for the Hindus?
One religion makes and gets demands met.
Submission.org

British schools drop Holocaust from history lessons so as not to offend Muslims - National Libertarian | Examiner.com
BY: HOWARD PORTNOY
AUGUST 17, 2012
What's the Muslim population of Scotalnd? 1%? (Wiki says .9%).
Absurd demands - Ridiculous accommodationalism. Islam rules, 1 vs 99.
Click to expand...

For real though? I don't know, it sounds ridiculous. Besides, why would Muslim students get upset? It wasn't like they're the one's who perpetrated the Holocaust, that was the Germans.
 
Gardener said:
So, my responding to YOUR introduction of the issue of Jews vs Muslims is "derailing", while my listing the actual numbers in question represents the departure from a "factual and accurate" discussion?
Click to expand...

First introduction of jews vs muslims - mbig post http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...sons-not-offend-muslims-2.html#post1060813808

Gardener said:
One of your most famous countrymen wrote a book in 1948 detailing a futuristic world filled with such inversions of reality. His last name is now almost synonymous with the process you have used here.
Click to expand...

Nice try, did he say anything about your being unable to tell the truth?

Now, please remember the subject of the thread is about the teaching of the holocaust in British schools. I am not the subject.
 
Ikari said:
For real though? I don't know, it sounds ridiculous. Besides, why would Muslim students get upset? It wasn't like they're the one's who perpetrated the Holocaust, that was the Germans.
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Dude, mbig fell for a hoax story and created a thread about it - read on through the thread.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Nice try, did he say anything about your being unable to tell the truth?

Now, please remember the subject of the thread is about the teaching of the holocaust in British schools. I am not the subject.
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I quoted the truth. THere are just under 3 million Muslims in Britain and 280000 Jews.

As far as the teaching of the Holocaust, as with any bureaucracy, there is policy and there is the adherence to such. That a policy exists does not mean various individuals are not departing from such due to certain pressures they may perceive or views they may hold, personally.
 
mbig said:
Gunner's are even wackier.
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What is "Wackier" about the following?

gunner said:
I really don't think it has sunk in yet...... (from 2008)

"The UK government is taking the unprecedented step of writing to every embassy to stop a false e-mail rumour about Holocaust teaching being banned.
A widely-circulated e-mail has falsely claimed that schools in the UK will stop teaching the Holocaust because it might cause offence to Muslims.

Schools Secretary Ed Balls says he wants to "put an end once and for all to the myth" spread by the e-mail.

He says teaching the Holocaust remains "non-negotiable" in England. This formal government rebuttal of a hoax e-mail has been prompted by a persistent rumour that "UK schools" are set to remove the Holocaust from the curriculum."
(.....)


"I am pleased to confirm that this is absolutely not the case. Teaching of the Holocaust is compulsory in all secondary schools between the ages of 11 and 14.

"We are clear that there are certain non-negotiable subjects, which are protected in schools; one of those is the Holocaust.
"There is no evidence that schools are breaking the rules and not teaching the Holocaust.

"We also fund visits for young people from every secondary school and college to go to Auschwitz"


BBC NEWS | UK | Education | UK government acts on hoax e-mail


Paul
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Gardener said:
I quoted the truth. THere are just under 3 million Muslims in Britain and 280000 Jews.

As far as the teaching of the Holocaust, as with any bureaucracy, there is policy and there is the adherence to such. That a policy exists does not mean various individuals are not departing from such due to certain pressures they may perceive or views they may hold, personally.
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Gardener that's a cop out and know it! If we are to go down the road of 'some teachers teach so in so and other teachers teach blah blah etc" will open a whole different discussion. Mbig made a claim that has been 'proven' totally fictitious, and he has not got the BALLS to retract it.

Paul
 
Moderator's Warning:
Cease with the personal attacks, flaming and baiting. Stop attacking each other and stick to the topic.
 
gunner said:
Gardener that's a cop out and know it! If we are to go down the road of 'some teachers teach so in so and other teachers teach blah blah etc" will open a whole different discussion. Mbig made a claim that has been 'proven' totally fictitious, and he has not got the BALLS to retract it.

Paul
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It isn't a copout, as I happened to read the original Department of Education and skills report when it came out. The report stated that teachers were avoiding certain emotive subjects and gave as an example a northern school that avoided discussion of the Holocaust out of deference for its Muslim pupils.

Were there more than one school involved? Who knows -- the report used the term "example" which could imply there were more. Was there a country-wide policy? No. Since the headline reads "British schools....." avoided teaching the holocaust, then this could be interpreted as involving more than one but not necessarily all.

I am not here to defend anything other posters have said, as I only represent myself. What I have said about relative populations is entirely accurate, and having read the original report, which did mention a Northern school that avoided teaching the Holocaust, I would say that the claim as to its occurance is accurate, too. As this originated from the British school system, itself, I have no idea other than that because I was not there any more than were anybody else posting here. Did it happen? Your own school system report said it did as reported by the bbc here BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Holocaust 'ban' e-mail confusion so I accept that it did. What it didn't indicate is how widespread was the practice.

AS in the example given of various schools in the states refusing to teach evolution because of fundamentalist Christian sensitivities, I don't know why people cannot simply criticize the practice without blowing it up into something beyond what it is one way or another. The attention given towards trying to deny something can veer just as far from reality as the attempts to magnify it. If you told me that schools in Arkansas were avoiding evolution because of their fundie students, I would just say 'idiots", and grumble about it. For some reason, though, if somebody says that schools in the U.K. avoided the holocaust because of Muslims, people just go nuts. Why the difference? Why not just accept that the bbc report I linked is accurate, that an unnamed school or schools did avoid the holocaust for their Muslim student as reported and have the same reaction?
 
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mbig said:
Subjective, fallacious, factless; as all your entries here. No 'why' included.

No it wasn't.
See post #17 un-"shooting" every point. Or try tackling one.

and again lease start putting ON topic material in your posts, not merely cheerleading/emptily saying "good post"/"bad post" about everything. It serves No purpose here. Now 3-fer-3 with No information or refutation. Cheerleading/whoring.
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Bad post. Boo, hiss!
 
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