Thread: Conservative German minister wants equal rights for homosexual civil unions [W:56]

I imagine our American friends will look like this when reading that:

Obviously, conservatives aren't the same in Germany as in the US. German Family Minister Kristina Schröder (from the conservative Christian Democrats) now proposed homosexual civil unions should get the same rights as marriages, because "it is consistent with conservative values because gay couples take 'lasting responsibility' for one another."

German Family Minister in Favor of Tax Benefits for Gay Couples - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Civil unions had been legalized 12 years ago by the then center-left government under Chancellor Schröder, opposed by the Christian Democrats. But since the Christian Democrats are governing in a center-right government since 2009, they have taken no attempt to change this law again. Now they have apparently given up their opposition altogether.

Merkel's austerity stance on the euro crisis may hide this observation for the time being, but she has moved the conservative Christian Democrats far into the center -- some even say to the left of center -- in the past few years. Probably, that's a good strategy, because for the time being, there is no competition right from the Christian Dems, so they can win more votes in the center than they lose on the right.

Gut gemacht, Deutschland.

Originally Posted by German guy

-- Kristina Schröder (from the conservative Christian Democrats) now proposed homosexual civil unions should get the same rights as marriages --

Are there any moves to allow equal rights in marriage in Germany? I read elsewhere that Scotland may have full same sex marriage by 2015 so I wondered who else was following suit.

I think we've all known that "conservative" in Europe means something different than it does here in the USA.

Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos

Are there any moves to allow equal rights in marriage in Germany? I read elsewhere that Scotland may have full same sex marriage by 2015 so I wondered who else was following suit.

As far as I can tell, it's just going towards "more rights for civil unions" for the time being, in Germany.

The legalization of homosexual civil unions in 2000/2001 was a compromise already by the governing Social Dems (center-left) and Green Party, and the libertarian Free Democrats (then in the opposition). The Greens and some parts of the socialist Left Party are in favor of SSM, IIRC, but German politics are very consensus-oriented, so I guess even a future government by the Social Dems won't really push for SSM -- rather expand the rights of civil unions, maybe to the point they are legally equal to marriages.

Originally Posted by German guy

-- I guess even a future government by the Social Dems won't really push for SSM -- rather expand the rights of civil unions, maybe to the point they are legally equal to marriages.

That's interesting, if I read you right then civil unions in the UK are more equal to marriage than they would be in Germany? The final step over here is to allow same-sex marriage, which is coming but slowly once opposition from the different churches has been overcome.

Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos

That's interesting, if I read you right then civil unions in the UK are more equal to marriage than they would be in Germany? The final step over here is to allow same-sex marriage, which is coming but slowly once opposition from the different churches has been overcome.

If civil unions are legally equal to marriage in the UK, then this is right.

They are not (yet) in Germany. I am no expert, but asfaik, the right to adoption is more restricted, for example.

Originally Posted by German guy

I imagine our American friends will look like this when reading that:

Obviously, conservatives aren't the same in Germany as in the US. German Family Minister Kristina Schröder (from the conservative Christian Democrats) now proposed homosexual civil unions should get the same rights as marriages, because "it is consistent with conservative values because gay couples take 'lasting responsibility' for one another."

German Family Minister in Favor of Tax Benefits for Gay Couples - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Civil unions had been legalized 12 years ago by the then center-left government under Chancellor Schröder, opposed by the Christian Democrats. But since the Christian Democrats are governing in a center-right government since 2009, they have taken no attempt to change this law again. Now they have apparently given up their opposition altogether.

Merkel's austerity stance on the euro crisis may hide this observation for the time being, but she has moved the conservative Christian Democrats far into the center -- some even say to the left of center -- in the past few years. Probably, that's a good strategy, because for the time being, there is no competition right from the Christian Dems, so they can win more votes in the center than they lose on the right.

Well, since the "conserve" in conservatism has to do with the wish to preserve a certain societal value system, the question people should be asking is how to define a stance if the value system in question is already liberal in nature? Is the desire to preserve liberal institutions then the sign of a conservative?

From where I sit, I'd say that much of the European left has completely abandoned liberal principles, and so perhaps it is up to European conservatives to preserve them -- paradox or no.

Originally Posted by German guy

If civil unions are legally equal to marriage in the UK, then this is right. .

Small elements of prejudice aside, civil union in the UK is the same as heterosexual marriage. The main difference as I see it is that same sex couples cannot be married (yet).

Originally Posted by Gardener

Well, since the "conserve" in conservatism has to do with the wish to preserve a certain societal value system, the question people should be asking is how to define a stance if the value system in question is already liberal in nature? Is the desire to preserve liberal institutions then the sign of a conservative?

From where I sit, I'd say that much of the European left has completely abandoned liberal principles, and so perhaps it is up to European conservatives to preserve them -- paradox or no.

I don't understand why you'd say "much of the European left has completely abandoned liberal principles", and I don't agree with it when it's worded this way. But I guess this point can be made, depending on how exactly you define "the European left". I agree many far-left parties or movements, unlike the moderate left, in Europe are illiberal (but don't think they have "abandoned" anything; they have been illiberal from the beginning).