Thread: Gunman in France targets Jews, kills three kids and a Rabbi

Originally Posted by Grant

So is it your contention that this crime was committed by a member of a minority group who was dissatisfied with Sarkozy's policies?

No quite the opposite I think that Sarkozy's comments in the French media and his polices have encouraged nut jobs and far right groups to come out and express their hate towards minorities and relgious groups. This killing may be the work of a lone crazy nutjob but I think if Sarkozy carries on down the path he is heading he almost invites attacks similar to this.

Originally Posted by Higgins86

No quite the opposite I think that Sarkozy's comments in the French media and his polices have encouraged nut jobs and far right groups to come out and express their hate towards minorities and relgious groups. This killing may be the work of a lone crazy nutjob but I think if Sarkozy carries on down the path he is heading he almost invites attacks similar to this.

So in fact you know nothing about why this happened. Would that be correct?

Originally Posted by Grant

So in fact you know nothing about why this happened. Would that be correct?

oh sorry Grant and you do? Its called speculation and opinion and we are on a debate website hence we debate over each others opinion, I know you prefer to try and mock people rather than actually debating but thats your problem not mine. Again you are welcome to counter my argument and at this point I ****ing welcome it rather than dealing with idiotic posts and insults. So again I think that Mr President incites hatred of the minorites in France and although he is not responisble for this shooting he invites similar attacks with his rhetoric. Now you present a counter argument....

Originally Posted by Higgins86

oh sorry Grant and you do?

No, I don't.

Its called speculation and opinion and we are on a debate website hence we debate over each others opinion,

And I'm all for debating, which is why I'm here, but debate should have some basis in fact and not only speculation. You could speculate that it was space aliens or the Tamil Tigers.

I know you prefer to try and mock people rather than actually debating but thats your problem not mine. Again you are welcome to counter my argument and at this point I ****ing welcome it rather than dealing with idiotic posts and insults. So again I think that Mr President incites hatred of the minorites in France and although he is not responisble for this shooting he invites similar attacks with his rhetoric. Now you present a counter argument....

[/QUOTE]

There is no counter argument to this because you are not basing your opinion on fact. These are your feelings and I cannot debate those. They are exclusive to you.

Originally Posted by Grant

No, I don't.



And I'm all for ebating, which is why I'm here, but debate should have some basis in fact and npt only speculation. Yu cou;d speculate that it was space aliens or the Tamil Tigers.

There is no counter argument to this because you are not basing your opinion on fact. These are your feelings and I cannot debate those. They are exclusive to you.[/QUOTE]

but they are not exclusive to me its his political agenda and it has been on the table for the last 2 years from banning veils to his recent rantings on halal meat ( too name a couple), if you can tell me that Sarkozy is progessive and is preaching freedom of religion then go on but I know you cant and my point stands that Sarkozy is himself promoting relgious hate in France and as I have already stated is inviting right wing groups to spread hate and intolerance

Young man detained. He is a 24 year old "Jihadist" man who claims to have killed the soldiers in revenge for French foreign policy and the Jewish children in revenge for Gaza. Three police wounded in the shoot-out.

Toulouse siege: live - Telegraph

EDIT: or at least that's the latest.

I disagree, Higgins. Sarkozy is doing what right-wing French politicians have been doing since Le Pen scared everyone with all the votes he got when running for President. He's trying to lure as many voters as possible away from the Front National party. The mistake would be in ignoring that voting block and their concerns. Not everyone who votes Front National is a xenophobic racist neo-nazi. Many are regular French citizens who live in areas where the number of immigrants who do very little to integrate into society is very high. Their concerns need to be acknowledged and addressed in a way that is less divisive and antagonistic than the Front National's tactics.

Burying one's head in the sand and pretending that multi-culturalism is a seamless, painless process is a very unrealistic stance to take. It's a long, difficult road and if it is to have any chance of working at all, there needs to be compromise on all sides. I think France is doing a better job than most European countries at protecting its national identity, while still welcoming immigrants. Do they go too far at times? Sure, they do. Harassing Muslim women for what they wear is silly. I don't agree with these bans, but I do understand why France felt it needed to be done. This is a fiercely, unapologetic secular society where religion and government do not ever cross paths. Immigrants who move to France should keep this aspect of French life in mind and behave accordingly.

Originally Posted by Ben K.

Young man detained. He is a 24 year old "Jihadist" man who claims to have killed the soldiers in revenge for French foreign policy and the Jewish children in revenge for Gaza. Three police wounded in the shoot-out.

Toulouse siege: live - Telegraph

EDIT: or at least that's the latest.

Good. I hope he is the one and that this is over. I'm watching 24hr French news channel France24 right now and they just reported that the man is still holed up in in his apartment and talking to RAID officers through the door. He apparently stated that "This is only the beginning", which could mean he wasn't wroking alone.

Originally Posted by Arcana XV

Good. I hope he is the one and that this is over. I'm watching 24hr French news channel France24 right now and they just reported that the man is still holed up in in his apartment and talking to RAID officers through the door. He apparently stated that "This is only the beginning", which could mean he wasn't wroking alone.

Yeah, it's his brother who is in custody, my mistake. Shooter says he's going to surrender this afternoon? Plus there was a bombing (no one hurt) at the the Indonesian embassy in Paris this morning.

Originally Posted by Ben K.

Yeah, it's his brother who is in custody, my mistake. Shooter says he's going to surrender this afternoon?

Yes, that's what he told the negotiators earlier. France24 now reports that he's stopped talking to them and that a second brother has surrendered to police.