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Britain isolated in Europe

Lost its identity???? Yeh thats why the Royal wedding this year was the most watched TV event in history...

Here is what I said "England today is a multicultural country and so is Australia. England, and in fact Britain, has lost almost all of it's identity apart from the occasional half-hearted pomp and ceremony".

How often do you have those royal weddings? Occasionally?
 
There was no nazi comparison. It's a diversionary tactic, often used when losing an arugment.
Well at least you are honest.
But Europeans have a long history of anti-semitism (does the Spanish Inquistion ring any bells?). Why do you bother to deny it?
I don't, that isn't the topic. The topic is you calling anyone who objective and moderate on the issue an anti-semite.
 
And to think that Grant objected to my use of 'jargon'.......

No, I didn't. I just pointed it out because the terms you chose were usually associated with leftists. I think you had best start using the quote system now.

By the way, the Commonwealth dominions, like Australia, New Zealand and as far as I know Canada share the general European view of Israel; whether we call that as it is, generally a moderate perspective that can see faults and good on both sides, or describe any criticisms of Israel as anti-semitism and other such conspiracies and nonsense.

Not Canada.

Conrad Black: Harper courageously defies Obama, in support of Israel | Full Comment | National Post

Harper Says He'll Support Israel Even If It Hurts Canada Politically - CityNews
 
Also if Canada and the Aussies hate us as much as Grant thinks they do why then to they keep voting to stay in the commonwealth and to keep the Queen as their head of state?

You should also start using the quote system. Where did i use the word "hate"?

Have the Brits become bereft of pride that that they are now just making things up as they go along?

Didn't you once have dignity?
 
No, I didn't. I just pointed it out because the terms you chose were usually associated with leftists. I think you had best start using the quote system now.
And I used words that were correct in the circumstances, and Wiggen partly proved that.

Not Canada.
Canada is no doubt closer to the US than the rest of us. I have noticed a growing pro-Israel feeling on the British and Aussie right in a short number of years. Unfortunately I think a lot of it has to do with a growing fear and dislike of Muslims and Islam based on what is being said. Some of it is simply based on assimilation to the US right.
 
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Have you ever thought that it makes no sense to punish people who live under despots because they live under despots?

By supporting those countries ruled by despots you are supporting the despots. There is no middle road.

Have you ever thought that the issues of justice concerning settlements and statehood are independent of just what Arabs think about women? So if someone in the world doesn't hold the complete, Western, liberal democratic views then they have justice? Anything can be done to them?

This makes little sense. Anything can be done to them? Are you saying that because of "settlements" we should look the other way when it comes to women's rights, gay rights, the right of others to have their own religion, etc.?

The attempt to paint all moderation on the issue as anti-semitism is underhanded, dishonest and the action of a complete nonsensical bigot. Now go away, this topic is forbidden outside the ME forum.

No, it is not. The debate over "settlements" is just another way of supporting Arabs over Jews. Were not Jews involved it would all be a non-issue.
 
By supporting those countries ruled by despots you are supporting the despots. There is no middle road.[
Sure there is. You do not have to wrong the people and do them great injustices because of who rules them. Indeed this doesn't help them.


This makes little sense. Anything can be done to them? Are you saying that because of "settlements" we should look the other way when it comes to women's rights, gay rights, the right of others to have their own religion, etc.?
I'm saying the settlements are utterly separate from these. You do not get away with injustices because of a nation's lack of women's or gay rights. We have no right to take property in Iran or even North Korea because of their regimes.


No, it is not. The debate over "settlements" is just another way of supporting Arabs over Jews. Were not Jews involved it would all be a non-issue.
Utter, propagandist nonsense. If I started taking your land or land in province and building on it and refused to recognise Canada's government in favour of Britain's you'd be annoyed. You have just given a completely non-objective viewpoint. But anyway, discussion of these topics is not allowed here.
 
Here is what I said "England today is a multicultural country and so is Australia. England, and in fact Britain, has lost almost all of it's identity apart from the occasional half-hearted pomp and ceremony".

How often do you have those royal weddings? Occasionally?


But it was hardly a half hearted cermony. You obviously know nothing about England and its people we are a people who tend to stick together, overly polite, great at standing in ques, love horrible bar food. Every summer we get the strawberries and cream out and all watch wimbledon ( even the working classes who have never played tennis get behind our British players), every major sporting event you see see people proudly flying the St Georges Cross from their cars and the whole country stops to watch the English football team. Every Sunday most people have a nice roast dinner and go down to the pub for a nice drink with friends, we love banter and black comedy and we love Curries...
These are just a few of the things I love about England and having to read your hate filled drivel over the past week has really started to get on my nerves. You obviously visited the UK with the intention of hating it and you have a massive stick up your arse. Sure we have our faults but I have been lucky enough to live in 7 different countries and I have learned that it doesnt matter where you go you will always have arseholes and good people ( no where is perfect)...

This section is for European debate so why don't you jog on and watch some Ice Hockey or that bloody awful Canadian Football that no one likes...
 
Not only do you continue to break the rules on only discussing this stuff in the ME forum, but you just, lamely, invoked the Nazis. Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself.

Weren't you the one who ignored Alexa's complaint that you weren't staying on the thread topic?

The fact is that many people can have a debate and where it leads can be more interesting than the topic itself. We can tell by the number of people getting involved here that it is provoking interest.

If the Mods don't like it when a great many people on a rather smallish board get involved in a discussion then they may want to rethink their position.
 
Weren't you the one who ignored Alexa's complaint that you weren't staying on the thread topic?

The fact is that many people can have a debate and where it leads can be more interesting than the topic itself. We can tell by the number of people getting involved here that it is provoking interest.

If the Mods don't like it when a great many people on a rather smallish board get involved in a discussion then they may want to rethink their position.
I ignored Alexa saying that because she was the one who had been trying to insult UKIP without ever giving more than vague accusations and even vaguer evidence. She, Peter and Manc still have given nothing else. This is different, this is specifically not allowed.
 
And don't split hairs. He was clearly comparing the situation to one where the Nazis are the bogeyman.

And even if you were right, how would I be making a comparison rather than just mistaken about what Wiggen wrote? Be sensible.

You should start using quotes and refer directly to them. You also accused me of "implying" something I never said. The quote system serves a very useful purpose.
 
You should start using quotes and refer directly to them. You also accused me of "implying" something I never said. The quote system serves a very useful purpose.
I vaguely recall saying you implied something you did imply.

Looking it up I accused you of rightly of implying contempt, or something like it, for the old English virtues of restraint, respect and even a bit of deference. I think that was a fair comment.
 
And I used words that were correct in the circumstances

No, it was foolish jargon and nothing more.

and Wiggen partly proved that.

You seem to have lost the plot here. Can you please use the quote system?

Canada is no doubt closer to the US than the rest of us.

One of the headlines said that Harper defied barrack Obama. Can't you even read the headline?

I have noticed a growing pro-Israel feeling on the British and Aussie right in a short number of years. Unfortunately I think a lot of it has to do with a growing fear and dislike of Muslims and Islam based on what is being said.

Well of course! Is it so hard to figure out? Are you unaware of the way Muslims treat women and Gays in the Middle East? Do you support this sort xenophobia or are you proud of your stance to be indifferent of the sufferings of over half the population there? Why wouldn't anyone support a democracy over corrupt and hateful dictatorships and theocracies? Well the questions answers itself when it's Jews who are involved.
based on assimilation to the US right.

You feel Canada has been assimilated to the US right rather than just doing what is right?

It's a rather small world you live in, mate. It's like you never left home.
 
I ignored Alexa saying that because she was the one who had been trying to insult UKIP without ever giving more than vague accusations and even vaguer evidence. She, Peter and Manc still have given nothing else. This is different, this is specifically not allowed.

So you will ignore the rules when you feel they deserve to be ignored.
 
So you will ignore the rules when you feel they deserve to be ignored.
Those aren't the rules. Or at the very best it is a very minor rule that is hardly ever enforced. UKIP and Britain's isolation from Europe because of EU shenanigans are basically one topic or very close.
 
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Sure there is. You do not have to wrong the people and do them great injustices because of who rules them. Indeed this doesn't help them.

Great injustices? You appear to have made up your mind who is right and wrong and will overlook the crimes being perpetrated against many millions of people because of your prejudices. Do you really not understand this attitude is deeply European and a symptom and the result of centuries of hate in Europe against the Jewish people? This is normal European thought. Thats why they always have movements against Israel but never against Palestinians, no matter the horrors they commit.

I'm saying the settlements are utterly separate from these. You do not get away with injustices because of a nation's lack of women's or gay rights. We have no right to take property in Iran or even North Korea because of their regimes.

Iran? North Korea? The injustices in the Middle East against women and Gays are well known yet you fret against anyone disliking Muslims. You share no apparent concern about the Jews being threatened in Europe or the Middle East, nor Christians there for that matter. .'There will be the usual outcry about "settlements" but never about about Jews, Christians , women or Gays.
For Europeans it will always be all about the Jews and everything else, everything, runs a distant second.

Utter, propagandist nonsense. If I started taking your land or land in province and building on it and refused to recognise Canada's government in favour of Britain's you'd be annoyed. You have just given a completely non-objective viewpoint. But anyway, discussion of these topics is not allowed here.

Iran, North Korea, and now Canada. As well you lack any historical knowledge of the region.

It's verboten, huh?
 
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No, it was foolish jargon and nothing more.
Okay, you want to do this. If you can't handle long words and complex concepts then that is your problem, not mine.


You seem to have lost the plot here. Can you please use the quote system?
It is quite simple. Wiggen, just on cue, showed a textbook example of Yank foaming at the mouth at the mere hint there may be valid criticism of Israel and the American position on it.
One of the headlines said that Harper defied barrack Obama. Can't you even read the headline?
Obviously I meant the American right and Canadian right are close. What this has to do with Harper defying Obama, in the sense you needed to repost the it, I'm not sure. It should have been quite clear to you.

Well of course! Is it so hard to figure out? Are you unaware of the way Muslims treat women and Gays in the Middle East? Do you support this sort xenophobia or are you proud of your stance to be indifferent of the sufferings of over half the population there?
I'm proud not to take simplistic and sloganistic positions on complex issues. I'm proud not to use such pretexts to support further injustices against this population, including women. I'm proud that I'm sensible enough to know that Israel, Palestine and the Middle East have little to do with British or Australian domestic politics and should have little to do with it. I support neither council boycotts of Israel, nor bringing in rightwing support for Israel as a major part of the conservative political platform.

Why wouldn't anyone support a democracy over corrupt and hateful dictatorships and theocracies? Well the questions answers itself when it's Jews who are involved.
Now you just look stupid and are yet again throwing around paranoid insults at anyone who is not pro-Israeli to the point of propagandist.

You feel Canada has been assimilated to the US right rather than just doing what is right?

It's a rather small world you live in, mate. It's like you never left home.
Says the man who just started to accuse anyone who isn't rabidly pro-Israel of being anti-semitic. What have I made but the mildest criticisms.

I am sad to say I'm beginning to agree with Pete about you Grant. But more than that you remind me of Pete. Indeed what are you doing but the mirror of what he did with UKIP, except you are perhaps doing it in a more unhinged and silly way.
 
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Great injustices? You appear to have made up your mind who is right and wrong and will overlook the crimes being perpetrated against many millions of people because of your prejudices. Do you really not understand this attitude is deeply European
and a symptom and the result of centuries of hate in Europe against the Jewish people? This is normal European thought. Thats why they always have movements against Israel but never against Palestinians, no matter the horrors they commit.
I've made up my mind the settlements and such include injustices. This shouldn't be a controversial statement. That you can see nothing wrong with them is simply that you are a brainwashed, unthinking propagandist. That you cannot discuss this without ranting about Europe and making implications about the holocausts shows what a paltry and silly position you have.

Iran? North Korea? The injustices in the Middle East against women and Gays are well known yet you fret against anyone disliking Muslims. You share no apparent concern about the Jews being threatened in Europe or the Middle East, nor Christians there for that matter. .'There will be the usual outcry about "settlements" but never about about Jews, Christians , women or Gays.
For Europeans it will always be all about the Jews and everything else, everything, runs a distant second.
Or you could calm down and realise that in the context of the discussion it was natural to mention settlements and not go into detail about what you are talking about. You haven't really got to the point. You solution is to help these women and gays by further injustices, hostility and neglect.
 
Okay, you want to do this. If you can't handle long words and complex concepts then that is your problem, not mine.
Complex? Using the term "neo-con" is complex?

It is quite simple. Wiggen, just on cue, showed a textbook example of Yank foaming at the mouth at the mere hint their may be valid criticism of Israel and the American position on it.

Really, the sooner you start using the quote system the more sense you might make.

Obviously I meant the American right and Canadian right are close. What this has to do with Harper defying Obama I'm not sure.

How are they "quite close" and how does that differ from the Australian right, for example? Do you know that Harper is a Conservative? Which American right wing leader do you feel he most closely resembles?

I'm proud not to take simplistic and sloganistic positions on complex issues
.

Yet you used a jargon laden post which contained only symbols of thought, but no real and actual thought. And you supported this post which we both greed was "jargon".
I'm proud not to use such pretexts to support further injustices against this population, including women. I'm proud that I'm sensible enough to know that Israel, Palestine and the Middle East have little to do with British or Australian domestic politics and should have little to do with it. I support neither council boycotts of Israel, nor bringing in rightwing support for Israel as a major part of the conservative political platform.

It's fine to have pride though your source of such pride is questionable. No point in speaking out of the rights of Gays or women if its on a pretext? So when do you speak out on human rights in the Middle East?'And in doing so how do you avoid hurting the feelings of Muslims?

Now you just look stupid and are yet again throwing around paranoid insults at anyone who is not pro-Israeli to the point of propagandist.

Insults? Gee, I'm sorry you took it that way.

Says the man who just started to accuse anyone who isn't rabidly pro-Israel of being anti-semitic. What have I made but the mildest criticisms.

The mildest criticisms only of Israel, not anyone else. In fact you expressed concern that those who want to murder Jews may be the victims of some prejudicial feelings.

I am sad to say I'm beginning to agree with Pete about you Grant. But more than that you remind me of Pete. Indeed what are you doing but the mirror of what he did with UKIP, except you are perhaps doing it in a more unhinged and silly way.

If I said anything untrue please point it out. And of course I welcome you to use the quote system so that there are no misunderstandings of what was actually said.
 
I've made up my mind the settlements and such include injustices.
Yes, I know.

This shouldn't be a controversial statement. That you can see nothing wrong with them is simply that you are a brainwashed, unthinking propagandist.

It really isn''t that interesting, much less controversial.

That you cannot discuss this without ranting about Europe and making implications about the holocausts shows what a paltry and silly position you have.

Again, why not use the quote system?

Or you could calm down and realise that in the context of the discussion it was natural to mention settlements and not go into detail about what you are talking about. You haven't really got to the point.

OK OK I'll do my best to calm down! LOL!

You solution is to help these women and gays by further injustices, hostility and neglect.

Really? I don't recall saying anything of the sort. Are you completely familiar with how the quote system works?
 
Complex? Using the term "neo-con" is complex?
Oh, poor Grant. I'm sure they have evening classes in basic English in Canada, they might help you with these long words. Just try not to sling random insults like anti-semitic or typical Europeans at them. I know it comes naturally to you, but try your hardest to suppress it, there's a good boy.


Really, the sooner you start using the quote system the more sense you might make.
The sooner you start thinking the more sense you might make.


How are they "quite close" and how does that differ from the Australian right, for example? Do you know that Harper is a Conservative? Which American right wing leader do you feel he most closely resembles?
A Australian Coalition PM probably wouldn't make such a strident public position, though of course the newspapers may have been overdoing the event.

.
Yet you used a jargon laden post which contained only symbols of thought, but no real and actual thought. And you supported this post which we both greed was "jargon".
I see you have discovered a new word and want to get the most out of it before you forget it.
It's fine to have pride though your source of such pride is questionable. No point in speaking out of the rights of Gays or women if its on a pretext? So when do you speak out on human rights in the Middle East?'And in doing so how do you avoid hurting the feelings of Muslims?
What? Try again, breath calmly and try and make sense. I tend not to speak a lot about 'human rights' in other parts of the world. My lecture circle on Laos didn't sell as well as possible. No doubt you are right now perfecting your stand up act; judging by your recent posts.


Insults? Gee, I'm sorry you took it that way.
Yes, well you see, when you insult people it often happens that they feel you are insulting them. On another topic, when it rains, you tend to get wet ( I mean wetter than you are already).

The mildest criticisms only of Israel, not anyone else. In fact you expressed concern that those who want to murder Jews may be the victims of some prejudicial feelings.
You see, when people discuss things there is usually a context. The context was about Israel, not what some random Arab country did to its people and which all its people need to be punished for.
 
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Yes, I know.
In other news, when someone burgles my house it doesn't take me that long to be annoyed at them, despite whatever injustices they may have suffered.
It really isn''t that interesting, much less controversial.
Well, we all know that you're doing your best with your posts Grant.

Again, why not use the quote system?



OK OK I'll do my best to calm down! LOL!



Really? I don't recall saying anything of the sort. Are you completely familiar with how the quote system works?
Why are you so obsessed with the quote system? Did you invent it?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Let's cease the personal attacks and get back on topic.
 
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