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EDL getting out of hand?

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alexa

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I know we always thought the EDL were out of hand, non acceptable but are they getting too popular and out of hand,

I found a video on Al Jazeera tonight about them. I will leave it later. To be honest it is a bit boring and doesn't say very much but it did make me more aware of just how horrible it is for Muslims having them around - hearing it, if you like from the Muslim side for the first time.

I then did a search and found this, just 10 hour old article. They certainly show the reality of their against' Muslim extremist only' rhetoric

Last Monday, it was reported that a gang of around 25 EDL members attacked a bookstall in Birmingham which was run by the local Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, threatening and manhandling the stall owners. This latest example of street thuggery shows us that the EDL is not only growing in size, but is also succeeding in spreading its simplistic and bigoted views about Muslims in Britain.

-snip-

Although the EDL's intimidation and violence is indefensible no matter who their victims are, the fact that its members attacked an Ahmadiyya stall adds yet another layer of absurdity to the group's image. Were they to have had any real knowledge about this issue, they would know that the Ahmadiyya are derided by the very Islamist extremists that the EDL claims to stand against. The sect differs from the majority of Muslims in that they do not accept Mohammed as the final prophet; their founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (d. 1908), also claimed prophethood, but sought to revive Islam rather than bring any new laws. This has made them targets of extremists in South-Asia and particularly in Pakistan where, encouraged by the Islamist political party the Jamaat e-Islami, they regularly murder and kidnap members of the group.
Click to expand...

Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens: The EDL's Attacks are Causing Serious Harm to British Communities

I know a lot of members of Stormfront have now joined them (they were initially put off by their pro Israeli stance) and the article says that they have quite a few blacks and non muslim asians as well.

I have never seen an EDL March. I have never knowingly seen an EDL member. I'm curious. Do other people? Do people get the feeling they are catching on or are they just a more obviously violent incarnation of the BNP which will disappear in time?

I just can't imagine how horrid it must be to be a Muslim and have them marching through your area - actually I can.

anyway the Al-Jazeera video

[video]http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/aljazeeraworld/2011/10/20111020111540885675.html[/video]
 
I actually watched the documentary, but apart from the first 10 minutes it was a waste of time. They were supposed to find out who EDF was and why they have risen, instead they were just talking about how much they think EDF sucks, how great muslims are and how they believe the justice system is unfair.

In fact EDF is a result of bad immigration policies. I have said earlier that today's immigration policies breeds extremism on both sides. If you are only attacking the symptoms, and not the causes then you will get no where. To speak badly about EDF won't matter, because they don't care.
 
What's the EDL?
 
alexa said:
I know we always thought the EDL were out of hand, non acceptable but are they getting too popular and out of hand,

I found a video on Al Jazeera tonight about them. I will leave it later. To be honest it is a bit boring and doesn't say very much but it did make me more aware of just how horrible it is for Muslims having them around - hearing it, if you like from the Muslim side for the first time.

I then did a search and found this, just 10 hour old article. They certainly show the reality of their against' Muslim extremist only' rhetoric



Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens: The EDL's Attacks are Causing Serious Harm to British Communities

I know a lot of members of Stormfront have now joined them (they were initially put off by their pro Israeli stance) and the article says that they have quite a few blacks and non muslim asians as well.

I have never seen an EDL March. I have never knowingly seen an EDL member. I'm curious. Do other people? Do people get the feeling they are catching on or are they just a more obviously violent incarnation of the BNP which will disappear in time?

I just can't imagine how horrid it must be to be a Muslim and have them marching through your area - actually I can.

anyway the Al-Jazeera video

[video]http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/aljazeeraworld/2011/10/20111020111540885675.html[/video]
Click to expand...

I have witnessed a previous EDL march in my city and ran a thread about it sometime ago, in this section. I see little point in commenting further and sattisfying your curiosity (because it suits you in this instance) considering your view on someone having a 'personal lived experience'.

Paul
 
gunner said:
I have witnessed a previous EDL march in my city and ran a thread about it sometime ago, in this section. I see little point in commenting further and sattisfying your curiosity (because it suits you in this instance) considering your view on someone having a 'personal lived experience'.

Paul
Click to expand...

You certainly do seem to love the personal these days Paul. Are you or are you not doing a Social Science degree? Did such degree not tell you that if you want to understand a situation you should look at all sides of it. Did you not on same issue provide me with a link to justify your view which completely refuted your position and when I pointed this out to you did you not become so overemotional including if I remember correctly, saying you did not give a **** about human rights and becoming personally aggressive towards me so that I felt unable to continue speaking to you...and now you are huffy and coming onto a thread totally unrelated just to say you will not speak because you are in the huff.

There is a place for lived personal experience but there are also times when personal experience stops a person from being objective. You have a vested interest in your position being correct because you have acted against people and if you saw it any other way you might not feel good about yourself. Because of your personal interest in the estate where you live, your view is biased. As such you cannot discuss it without getting over emotional. You believe because you live on a difficult estate you know everything about difficult estates. I would suggest you are too emotionally evolved and because of triggers you simply react. I do not value your views when discussing this because of the absence of objectivity in them.

P.S There is no requirement to answer a post if you do not want to :)
 
alexa said:
I know we always thought the EDL were out of hand, non acceptable but are they getting too popular and out of hand,

I found a video on Al Jazeera tonight about them. I will leave it later. To be honest it is a bit boring and doesn't say very much but it did make me more aware of just how horrible it is for Muslims having them around - hearing it, if you like from the Muslim side for the first time.

I then did a search and found this, just 10 hour old article. They certainly show the reality of their against' Muslim extremist only' rhetoric



Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens: The EDL's Attacks are Causing Serious Harm to British Communities

I know a lot of members of Stormfront have now joined them (they were initially put off by their pro Israeli stance) and the article says that they have quite a few blacks and non muslim asians as well.

I have never seen an EDL March. I have never knowingly seen an EDL member. I'm curious. Do other people? Do people get the feeling they are catching on or are they just a more obviously violent incarnation of the BNP which will disappear in time?

I just can't imagine how horrid it must be to be a Muslim and have them marching through your area - actually I can.

anyway the Al-Jazeera video

[video]http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/aljazeeraworld/2011/10/20111020111540885675.html[/video]
Click to expand...

Where is your evidence that this was the EDL?

You have no names and they have claimed innocence. Unless you have evidence this is just a smear, and nothing more.
 
Grant said:
Where is your evidence that this was the EDL?

You have no names and they have claimed innocence. Unless you have evidence this is just a smear, and nothing more.
Click to expand...

Without doubt they were EDL, here is the original article the HP cites.

Mindless EDL thugs storm Muslim exhibition in Cradley Heath market (From Halesowen News)

What is questionable is how reliable a local tabloid is in reporting their behaviour. The photo shows an exasperated but hardly distressed Muslim at a stall as some white youths carry a flag by. We have a quote from one person at what happened there and police saying they received a call about the incident but seemingly no arrests were made.

What we have proof of is a rude and ill-judged, possibly intimidating expression of free speech, facts about an "attack" are thin on the ground.
 
samsmart said:
What's the EDL?
Click to expand...

EDL in a nutshell

EDL in a nutshell.webp

see a bigger picture here

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/303/2707706394.jpg

They are a motley crew of ex BNP members, football hooligans, WN's, extremists of any kind except Muslim who are part of the Global anti-islam network, though they are one of the most grass roots (foorball hooliganism), probably the most criminal and often a slight embarrassment to the rest.

Pickled Politics » EDL founder is a convicted criminal for child pornography / EDL

They came into particular prominence after the Norway Terrorism due to their links and ties with Breivik. Their leader said on Newsnight that he thought it likely we would be in for the same within 5 years if we didn't change our ways. They are now monitored by counter terrorism in the same way that extrimist islamists are.

EDL leader agrees with Breivik's opinions, threatens Britain's entire Muslim population - EDL News - EDL News

They work hard on the clash of civilisations, Islam is not a religion, common anti islam stuff, Sharia law racket, common again with most of the anti Islam extremist network. Like that network the leadership is pro Israel but the ranks hold many neo mazi's who according to their chat at Stormfront are putting up with this for the time being because it is the best on offer for White Nationalists at the moment.


For a more in depth look but long read try

http://www.radicalism-new-media.org...DL_Britains_New_Far_Right_Social_Movement.pdf
 
Last edited:
Ben K. said:
In the interest of balance.

English Defence League | Mission Statement
Click to expand...

You should read the last link the report from Nottingham University. Believing that is the true nature of the EDL would be believing any used car salesman. I am surprised you are so easily fooled.

For reality. The front or outward reaction after the 3 Muslims were run down during the Englsih riots by a black man is vastly different than the backstage or private boards messages.

One comment that #EDL want you to see about the deaths in #Bi... on Twitpic
 
Ben K. said:
Without doubt they were EDL, here is the original article the HP cites.

Mindless EDL thugs storm Muslim exhibition in Cradley Heath market (From Halesowen News)

What is questionable is how reliable a local tabloid is in reporting their behaviour. The photo shows an exasperated but hardly distressed Muslim at a stall as some white youths carry a flag by. We have a quote from one person at what happened there and police saying they received a call about the incident but seemingly no arrests were made.

What we have proof of is a rude and ill-judged, possibly intimidating expression of free speech, facts about an "attack" are thin on the ground.
Click to expand...

Grievous bodily harm is not the only time to use the word attack. From your link

He said: “About 25 of the EDL group stormed our stall in Cradley Heath pushing, shoving and threatening our members.”

“We have the book stall to raise awareness of our work in Britain and in the local community we are proud to be British Muslims and this incident saddened us.

“Our motto is ‘Love for All - Hatred for None’ and we do not meet violence with violence so we just stood there and did not respond to the provocation.”

He added: “I’d like to thank the police for responding to the problem so quickly and controlling the situation and we will be back as usual at the market on Saturday.”
Click to expand...

I bet if someone had treated you like this you could call it attack. Did you know attacks can even be verbal?
 
alexa said:
You should read the last link the report from Nottingham University. Believing that is the true nature of the EDL would be believing any used car salesman. I am surprised you are so easily fooled.

For reality. The front or outward reaction after the 3 Muslims were run down during the Englsih riots by a black man is vastly different than the backstage or private boards messages.

One comment that #EDL want you to see about the deaths in #Bi... on Twitpic
Click to expand...

Who said I was "fooled"? Someone asks who the EDL are and I think it's fair to post what the EDL consider themselves to be. You posted how their detractors view them, I don't intend to be fooled by either.
 
Ben K. said:
In the interest of balance.

English Defence League | Mission Statement
Click to expand...

It would be dangerous, and ill advised, to believe that the whole group identified with such a statement, but i would think this not so dissimilar to many other extreme groups, no matter the persuasion. The central question remains, 'To what extent is Muslim extremism having an impact on UK society?'

Paul
 
alexa said:
Grievous bodily harm is not the only time to use the word attack. From your link



I bet if someone had treated you like this you could call it attack. Did you know attacks can even be verbal?
Click to expand...

They sure can. I'm just not convinced at taking one guys word of what happened, much like you don't take the EDL by their word. Their is no evidence of wrongdoing, physically or verbally, and the fact that such a poorly written tabloid rag is being proclaimed as such is disheartening. Even the EDL web-site seems a more intellectual piece of work.
 
Gardener said:
Alexa is not interested in balance, only reaction.
Click to expand...

That is simply a personal attack. I did not react Gardiner, I informed. Providing propaganda is about as far from balance as I know and certainly changes nothing I wrote. In response to the supposed balance I provided an illustration of how the EDL has a front and back face. The face it initially shows the public is one to try and entice them into the back where, as with any cult, they will gradually get indoctrinated into the rest. Psychological propaganda is used to do this.

The English Defence League’s Mission Statement as a ‘new far right’ text
Finally, when examining any far right movement, it is important to be aware of the organisation’s
‘front stage’ messages, as well as its more aggressive ‘back stage’ dynamic, which is hidden
from public view. Indeed, one leading expert, Cas Mudde, stresses that it would be naive to accept at
face value the messages put out by a far right movement, though these considered, ‘front stage’
messages do reveal much about an organisation.17 We will examine the EDL’s variegated ‘back stage’
later in this report. However, to conclude this chapter by showing the relevance of the ‘new far
right’ ideology to the EDL’s identity, we can turn to one of the movement’s most prominent ‘front
stage’ documents, its Mission Statement. This text provides a self‐penned description of the
movement that places it squarely within this ‘new far right’ populist politics.18
To begin the statement opens with a quote from Albert Einstein, stressing he was ‘a
refugee from Nazi Germany’. The quote itself calls for people to confront evil to prevent it from
dominating society. This is an emotive rhetorical device, a move that immediately attempts to
distance the EDL from a pro‐Nazi or fascist identity, while aligning the movement with a
Jewish figure vilified by the Nazi regime in calling for a defence against a tyrannous ideology. The
wider allusion, moreover, is that Islam represents a new totalitarian ideology that must be
confronted. Already, core ‘new far right’tendencies of distancing the movement from

Nazism and identifying Muslims as a threat are being revealed.
Drawing on the language of liberalism and freedom, the first point made in the Mission
Statement proper argues that the EDL is a ‘human rights organisation’, founded in response to
Islamist extremism. This rests upon claims that the EDL essentially protects the public’s right to
protest against ‘radical Islam’s encroachment into the lives of non‐Muslims.’ The EDL also maintains
that it is protecting British Muslims against examples of Islam’s excesses, while stressing that:
‘the onus should be on British Muslims to overcome the problems that blight their religion
and achieve nothing short of an Islamic reformation’. The underlying implication is that
the whole of Islam is in a state of crisis, and so all Muslims pose a more general threat to wider
society. An enforced ‘Islamic reformation’ is therefore deemed necessary by the EDL (both here and elsewhere), due to the alleged threat posed by
‘those who believe Islam should be taken in its “original”, 7th century form [...] the antithesis of
Western democracy’. This view reiterates the simplistic ‘new far right’ view that Islam is
essentially anti‐modern and barbaric, with the EDL contrasted as a defender of modern values.
Moreover, violent extremism is presented as the predominant face of Islam in Britain today, as the
Mission Statement claims that ‘radical Islam’ has a ‘stranglehold on British Muslims’. By selectively
evoking liberal ideals in this way, the EDL’s Mission Statement calls on the British government
to repeal elements of free speech supposedly allowing the anti‐democratic views of Muslim
extremists to be expressed. In sum, it presents extremism as the dominant characteristic within
Muslim communities, a major distortion of reality.
Click to expand...

http://www.radicalism-new-media.org...DL_Britains_New_Far_Right_Social_Movement.pdf

This is the front view and that is bad enough. This is what you call balance to my post 10 http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/111457-edl-getting-out-hand.html#post1059916501 Explain what you mean by that.
 
Ben K. said:
Without doubt they were EDL, here is the original article the HP cites.

Mindless EDL thugs storm Muslim exhibition in Cradley Heath market (From Halesowen News)

What is questionable is how reliable a local tabloid is in reporting their behaviour. The photo shows an exasperated but hardly distressed Muslim at a stall as some white youths carry a flag by. We have a quote from one person at what happened there and police saying they received a call about the incident but seemingly no arrests were made.

What we have proof of is a rude and ill-judged, possibly intimidating expression of free speech, facts about an "attack" are thin on the ground.
Click to expand...

I see the EDL was accused but I see no evidence it was them.

I don't sympathize with thuggery and threats, which is why I speak out against Islamism, and I congratulate those Brits who would stand up for their traditional laws and values. However, in this age of disinformation I would need further evidence that this was not only the EDL but that it was sanctioned by the EDL. If it has been then they should be condemned for these actions.

If the clear evidence isn't there then I don't see how they can be accused.
 
Ben K. said:
They sure can. I'm just not convinced at taking one guys word of what happened, much like you don't take the EDL by their word. Their is no evidence of wrongdoing, physically or verbally, and the fact that such a poorly written tabloid rag is being proclaimed as such is disheartening. Even the EDL web-site seems a more intellectual piece of work.
Click to expand...

There seemed to be a photo. These sort of things happen all the time. I accept this was not a major incident but the irony was that the people who must have been shaken were Ahmadiyya. The most obvious guess is that they were trying to get a reaction from the Muslims. They were out of luck this time. Nonetheless people should not experience this just because of their culture.

I did think twice about starting this thread as I know where they always go but the al jazeera video did get me thinking how awful it must be to live in a country and have creeps like that around treating you like dirt.
 
Ben K. said:
In the interest of balance.

English Defence League | Mission Statement
Click to expand...

I see nothing wrong in their mission statement and of course Sharia Law should be discouraged. Islam does not have a great deal going for it and has been a detriment to the advancement of all human rights and freedoms wherever it has held power. It does not elevate humanity.

Muslims will attempt to advance their cause through violence, and we continue to see plenty of that in the world, and propaganda, such as we see through the efforts of Alexa and many others. Many will try to demonize or marginalize the EDL but according to their mission statement they will be essential to the continued liberty for the British people.
 
Grant said:
I see the EDL was accused but I see no evidence it was them.

I don't sympathize with thuggery and threats, which is why I speak out against Islamism, and I congratulate those Brits who would stand up for their traditional laws and values. However, in this age of disinformation I would need further evidence that this was not only the EDL but that it was sanctioned by the EDL. If it has been then they should be condemned for these actions.

If the clear evidence isn't there then I don't see how they can be accused.
Click to expand...

Grant, having witnessed an EDL march first hand there is much comment made on the actions of those attending. They often meet in a public house prior to commencing their march. As a consequence you can imagine many are then in drink. As to actions that are sanctioned, or not, it would be pretty much impossible to distinguish. At a recent march, their leader (Stephen Lennon) AKA Tommy Robinson became embroiled in a violent scuffle with a fellow protester, for which he was charged.

EDL leader convicted of assault charge

This is very much the public face of the organisation. As has been highlighted in various threads about this issue if we let those on the extreme Left or Right dominate the narrative we loose sight of context and legitimate concerns.
 
gunner said:
As has been highlighted in various threads about this issue if we let those on the extreme Left or Right dominate the narrative we loose sight of context and legitimate concerns.
Click to expand...

Link please, I want to check out on these extreme left and right.
 
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