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Some Statistics of English Rioters

alexa said:
gunner said:
alexa said:
I didn't make a mistake.
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You suggested England could learn from Scotland take that as you like.


I never said that Scotland did not do slave labour because I knew I might discover she did
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Absolute rubbish.


well there you go. For those with eyes and ears there is more to see. For those with a stuck pre ingrained view, it will remain.
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OK explain what your 'ears' and 'eyes' have shown you?

One for your research, if your looking comparatively at the riots themselves. How many Police officers were injured in the recent riots compared to say the Broadwater farm riots?
Paul
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gunner said:
I am fully aware what jobs are carried out during a community service order. In addition to work in the community some have the benefit of gaining hand skills in fully equipped workshops. Making all manner of small items one such such project was the refurbishment of the toys from a local play group, very worthwhile in my opinion. That said, this in no way undermines my previous point. Persons involved in community orders have been convicted just as a person who has gone to prison. So what I'm stating is conversations during community orders are not that dissimilar to that what would be discussed in prison, you follow? In saying this i accept its not quite the pressure cooker environment of prison.
As an example one probation officer suggested to me 'of the record of course' that community service orders are a good opportunity for offenders to peddle drugs because of the ability to network with persons from different areas within their city.

Paul
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I don't know you or the probation officer, if you want to argue that community services increases probability of re-offending, please provide actual findings of that. You can easily search and find researches that found prison increase the chances of re-offending: Re-offending rates rise as the prison population expands - Crime - UK - The Independent

I don't see how speculations about community services and what they may be up to trumps actual findings about prisons and re-offending rates. So your previous point doesn't carry water with me.
 
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RDS said:
Its an English Disease. Hooligan problem and soccer violence wont go away in England.
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listen to what i'm saying, it has gone away. Compared to countires like Holland, Italy and Poland we dont have a hooligan problem. All seated stadiums and CCTV pretty much ended soccer violence in the UK, you do get the very rare incident but on a whole the game has cleane dup in England.
 
nonpareil said:
No one blames the shopkeepers. No one want to pretend it never happened. You should know better then to use strawmans.
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My "strawmen" had pretty hard evidence in the efforts to deflect attention from discussing the consequences of crime and being arrested to blaming the Govt and govt policy for making criminals of the rioters in the first place. The strawman is the discussdion of govt policy in a discussion on the riots - not the fact that some posters sympathies have ignored the plight of innocent shopkeepers and innocent citizens caught up in the after-effects of riots

nonpareil said:
Do you disagree with his statement that putting them in jail will increase their chances of joining gangs and becoming hardened criminals?
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I was primarily focussing on the issue of dealing with the rioters, what we do about those caught on CCTV that either burned buildings down, assaulted innocent passers-by in the streets or had a hand in any deaths of the innocent. Not to mention simple breaking and entering. I believe a discussion about what made them get off their sofas and go breaking the laws of the land is a different discussion. :2wave:

nonpareil said:
-- And there's an alternative - community services.
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nonpareil said:
The modern Community Service orders has been used in the UK since the 70's according to this paper: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Community sentences - an overview : Directgov - Crime and justice
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I'm aware of the older version of community courts and service - what we're talking about is a newer one that is supposedly more effective and helps to deal with such crimes.
 
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