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This is an interesting development!

jmotivator said:
The question is still where the energy that is used in the reverse process will come from.
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The fundamental concept is to move the peaks to the valleys.
Alternative energy sources like wind and solar have periods where the supply exceeds the demand.
The ability to move daytime surplus to nighttime, helps.
This type of storage can be seasonal as well, moving spring and fall surpluses to winter and summer demand.
And then there is the accumulation factor, where the supply is too low density to operate some appliances, but the storage allows
the low duty cycle high demand to be supported. (Like air conditioners and refrigerators)
 
longview said:
sunfire supplies Boeing with reversible solid oxide electrolyser/fuel cell system - Renewable Energy Focus
It seems that along the way to making man made fuels, Sunfire Germany created a reversible hydrogen process.
That Boeing and the Navy are looking at to take the edges off alternative power.
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Reads like a good process. If the overall efficiency can equal or exceed batteries it will be fantastic. Also the cost effectiveness must be analyzed. Great potential.
 
DaveFagan said:
Reads like a good process. If the overall efficiency can equal or exceed batteries it will be fantastic. Also the cost effectiveness must be analyzed. Great potential.
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Even if not real efficient, it's better than losing all the excess power that randomly gets generated.
 
longview said:
It looks to be a better, and reversible hydrogen electrolysis unit.
Germany has been working on this concept for quite a few years, but they have different problems,
needing different solutions.
https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/research-news/2010/04/green-electricity-storage-gas.html
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Interesting to watch. They should be further now, than at the time the article was written. I have to look up the economics of it. Germany did a lot of research into synthetic oil ling ago that never achieved financial viability. But that was at a different general level of technology.
 
joG said:
Interesting to watch. They should be further now, than at the time the article was written. I have to look up the economics of it. Germany did a lot of research into synthetic oil ling ago that never achieved financial viability. But that was at a different general level of technology.
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The current financial viability looks to be about $90 a barrel oil, (it is really the cost of the roughly 50Kwh of electricity it takes to make a gallon of gasoline.)
Places like France and Iceland with excess Nuclear and geothermal power, may pass financial viability quicker.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Six year old article.

Might be good if someone follows up o the progress.
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I was just showing where the idea came from.
Fraunhofer, started the research, Audi, and the US Naval Research labs continued it with liquid fuels.
Audi spun off Sunfire.
I am guessing While trying to optimize Sunfire's liquid fuel process, they came up with a better water electrolysis method.
 
longview said:
I was just showing where the idea came from.
Fraunhofer, started the research, Audi, and the US Naval Research labs continued it with liquid fuels.
Audi spun off Sunfire.
I am guessing While trying to optimize Sunfire's liquid fuel process, they came up with a better water electrolysis method.
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The question is...

Will it ever be a viable solution?
 
Lord of Planar said:
The question is...

Will it ever be a viable solution?
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I think so! it is really just an accounting question.
If it cost 50 Kwh to make a gallon of gasoline from scratch, and the wholesale price of each Kwh is $.05,
then the cost of goods sold is $2.50 per gallon, on the finished end of the refinery.
$2.50 X 35 gallons of fuel product from each barrel is $87 dollar a barrel.
From what I read over the years, Sunfire's process is close to existing Cracking technology.
(Audi bought an old refinery, when they started development.)
 
longview said:
I think so! it is really just an accounting question.
If it cost 50 Kwh to make a gallon of gasoline from scratch, and the wholesale price of each Kwh is $.05,
then the cost of goods sold is $2.50 per gallon, on the finished end of the refinery.
$2.50 X 35 gallons of fuel product from each barrel is $87 dollar a barrel.
From what I read over the years, Sunfire's process is close to existing Cracking technology.
(Audi bought an old refinery, when they started development.)
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I would love to see such things become a reality.

I don't know if wind projects are still stalled in the Columbia Gorge, but we have more power now than we can export and use. Such a development would allow for all excess solar and wind power to me made as fuel.

Personally, I hope they stop with new wind projects. I see a wasteland of broken towers in the future.
 
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Lord of Planar said:
I would love tom see such things become a reality.

I don't know if wind projects are still stalled in the Columbia Gorge, but we have more power now than we can export and use. Such a development would allow for all excess solar and wind power to me made as fuel.

Personally, I hope they stop with new wind projects. I see a wasteland of broken towers in the future.
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I see photo voltaics as being a better long term solution, with basically no moving parts.
 
longview said:
I see photo voltaics as being a better long term solution, with basically no moving parts.
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As do I.

I fear the maintenance costs of wind towers will make them prohibitively expensive, then they will be left to rot.
 
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