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Arctic temps up to 26 degrees above normal - despite winter's onset

late said:
Reducing the political to the personal is a hypocritical dodge. I usually use stronger language, but I can't here.

I have no problem with nuke plants, as long as we develop some new designs, the last one was done in the 80s, if I am remembering correctly.

What we need is a plan. I think a few nuke plants would be an integral part of the transition away from an economy based on petroleum.
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Until we find a solution that has sufficient energy density to fly a jet across the world, we are kidding ourselves.
Ground Human transport can and does work with electricity , It is the Jets, Ships and Tractors, that are the issue.
Nature has evolved one of the best ways to store energy, hydrocarbons, our storing energy as hydrocarbon fuel, makes the
fuel carbon neutral, if the carbon is extracted from atmospheric CO2.
 
late said:
finding a solution will be difficult for all of us...

Just sayin'..
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More difficult for you when you start by excluding any solutions that do not have a carbon tax.
I am just saying it limits the possibilities.
 
longview said:
More difficult for you when you start by excluding any solutions that do not have a carbon tax.
I am just saying it limits the possibilities.
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isnt trump reducing carbon taxes as part of our economic stuff?
 
11Bravo said:
isnt trump reducing carbon taxes as part of our economic stuff?
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I don't really know, The real fundamental problem with the AGW proponents, is that they do not
know what the real problem is! The real problems are energy and fresh water.
Solving the energy problem will likely solve the fresh water problem, as well as any issue with CO2 that may exists.
The solution does not require government involvement, and so offends progressives, who think Government and taxes can solve any problem.
 
longview said:
More difficult for you when you start by excluding any solutions that do not have a carbon tax.
I am just saying it limits the possibilities.
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I know, staying inside reality is such a pain in the ass.
 
longview said:
Until we find a solution that has sufficient energy density to fly a jet across the world, we are kidding ourselves.
Ground Human transport can and does work with electricity , It is the Jets, Ships and Tractors, that are the issue.
Nature has evolved one of the best ways to store energy, hydrocarbons, our storing energy as hydrocarbon fuel, makes the
fuel carbon neutral, if the carbon is extracted from atmospheric CO2.
Click to expand...

Cheap oil isn't going to last all that much longer.

Once demand exceeds supply regularly, the price hikes will be epic.

Get ready, or get smushed.
 
longview said:
Until we find a solution that has sufficient energy density to fly a jet across the world, we are kidding ourselves.
Ground Human transport can and does work with electricity , It is the Jets, Ships and Tractors, that are the issue.
Nature has evolved one of the best ways to store energy, hydrocarbons, our storing energy as hydrocarbon fuel, makes the
fuel carbon neutral, if the carbon is extracted from atmospheric CO2.
Click to expand...

Not at all. You dont have to eliminate fossil fuel usage you just need to reduce it. Air travel is going to be fossil fueled for the forseeable future.

Of course, if we dont actually act on the other stuff (thanks to deniers like yourself), we will end up being forced into a position of having to curtail things like air travel, since incremental warming will be harder to mitigate the longer we pretend 'feedstocks for oil companies will be created out of CO2 when the price goes to $95/barrel" or whatever crap you've decided to stake your denial claim on today.
 
Threegoofs said:
Its the classic libertarian solution!

'**** you. I got mine".
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I would say that attitude is nothing like a Libertarian way of thinking, but then again some people like to claim they are things that they are not. Why, I do not know.
 
joG said:
The kids should be pleased with us. They are the lucky ones. After all lots of their generation have been, are or will be aborted. ;)
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Hey, over here :2wave:

The topic is global warming, thanks.
 
late said:
Cheap oil isn't going to last all that much longer.

Once demand exceeds supply regularly, the price hikes will be epic.

Get ready, or get smushed.
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You clearly have not looked at the solution I am proposing.
I am counting on the supply of cheap easy oil dropping and the price increasing.
The cutoff is about $90 a barrel, where it becomes more profitable for the refineries to make their own carbon neutral feedstock.
 
Threegoofs said:
The dramatic warming of the Arctic continues - right now, despite little sunlight, the temperatures are up to 36 degrees above normal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...al-as-winter-descends/?utm_term=.ab242e0749df


imrs.php


And sea ice is at a record low - with the usual recovery from the low very sluggish.

imrs.php


Just another datapoint.

Wonder if this is setting up the arctic to be ice free in the summer soon? Remember how the deniers laughed and laughed at that prediction that it could happen by 2020?

But then again, deniers in this section have assured us all that its just soot - and since CO2 is 'well mixed', it clearly isnt causing any of this because Antarctica is still cold. Hopefully the experts and scientists who study this stuff for a living will come here and read their posts so they can learn how much armchair scientists can teach us. :roll:
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Whoop-t-do...

Note that Siberia is about the same colder than normal.

Already saw that in a link from my daily Nature News email.

I didn't bother with a thread because it comes from a newspaper without good sourcing. In my view, it's rather irresponsible to link a pundit that doesn't give a source link without finding the source, and then lazy if you don't link the source.

But then, nobody expects better of you...

Here is the link where it is found.

Climate Reanalyzer
 
Phys251 said:
Goofs, you and I both know that the deniers will be at it until half the states of Florida and Louisiana are underwater.
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LOL...

What amount of seal level increase is needed for that?

I didn't didn't find the elevation of half the states area, but both Florida and Louisiana have an average 100 ft elevation. You probably would have been better off saying half of Delaware since it has an average 60 ft. elevation.
 
Threegoofs said:
Its the classic libertarian solution!

'**** you. I got mine".
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That is more like liberal voters who do that. Always wanting to spend "other people's money."
 
late said:
Liquid salt, I love that idea.
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Concentrated solar?

That is one of the worse things ever, along with wind mills.

Mark my words... our progeny will wonder how their ancestors could be so stupid!
 
longview said:
You clearly have not looked at the solution I am proposing.
I am counting on the supply of cheap easy oil dropping and the price increasing.
The cutoff is about $90 a barrel, where it becomes more profitable for the refineries to make their own carbon neutral feedstock.
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Seen it, chuckled, moved on.
 
late said:
Cheap oil isn't going to last all that much longer.

Once demand exceeds supply regularly, the price hikes will be epic.

Get ready, or get smushed.
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If it isn't going to last much longer, then alternate power sources need not be subsidized, right?

They will be cheaper soon, right?
 
Lord of Planar said:
LOL...

What amount of seal level increase is needed for that?

I didn't didn't find the elevation of half the states area, but both Florida and Louisiana have an average 100 ft elevation. You probably would have been better off saying half of Delaware since it has an average 60 ft. elevation.
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You don't need much for salt water to contaminate the aquifers, and undermine the coastal areas.

IOW, fubar.
 
Lord of Planar said:
If it isn't going to last much longer, then alternate power sources need not be subsidized, right?

They will be cheaper soon, right?
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Desperately grasping failure from the jaws of victory...
 
Lord of Planar said:
That is more like liberal voters who do that. Always wanting to spend "other people's money."
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Hardly.

Since the 1800s, the modern world has been a group effort.

Ike, if you want a good example of how it's done.
 
late said:
Adapt or get left in the dust.

Your fantasy of living in the past cuts no mustard.
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I ca't even imagine what makes you say such a silly thing. Are you projecting by chance?
 
Lord of Planar said:
I can't even imagine what makes you say such a silly thing.
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That I can believe.

Making the shift to an economy not based on petroleum is a big, hairy deal.

If we don't start now, we will have to do it in a hurry, at enormous cost. We will also not have the time to plan things out and do it right.
The economy would get absolutely hammered, making things even tougher.

All of which is kind of obvious, if you had looked into the matter.
 
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Lord of Planar said:
LOL...

What amount of seal level increase is needed for that?

I didn't didn't find the elevation of half the states area, but both Florida and Louisiana have an average 100 ft elevation. You probably would have been better off saying half of Delaware since it has an average 60 ft. elevation.
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I don't know; how many more seals can Florida take? :lol:
 
Lord of Planar said:
LOL...

What amount of seal level increase is needed for that?

I didn't didn't find the elevation of half the states area, but both Florida and Louisiana have an average 100 ft elevation. You probably would have been better off saying half of Delaware since it has an average 60 ft. elevation.
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I'll just point out the Gulf generally not seal habitat because it's too warm.
 
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