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Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions today.

Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

It takes a serious effort to deny reality to argue that there is no global warming.

Scientists Say Expect More 1,000-Year Events Like Louisiana Flood | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community




Two thousand-year floods in one year---my math calls that a once in a million-year event.

Just shows:

1) How science can be wrong.

2) How land use changes affect nature.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Da Nile runs deep this morning.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/



Glaciers are retreating almost everywhere around the world — including in the Alps, Himalayas, Andes, Rockies, Alaska and Africa....

Yawn...

Of course most the warming has occurred since the 70's.

We have been over this several times. Just how forgetful are you?
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Virtually indistinguishable – Comparing early 20th Century warming to late 20th Century warming

Guest essay by Andy May Many writers, including Professor Richard Lindzen and Ed Caryl have noticed the remarkable similarity in global warming observed from around 1910 to 1944 and 1975 to 2009. The similarity in slopes exists in all global surface temperature datasets. Figure 1 shows the HadCRUT version 4 dataset and the NASA GISS…
Continue reading →

Many writers, including Professor Richard Lindzen and Ed Caryl have noticed the remarkable similarity in global warming observed from around 1910 to 1944 and 1975 to 2009. The similarity in slopes exists in all global surface temperature datasets. Figure 1 shows the HadCRUT version 4 dataset and the NASA GISS land (GHCN v3) and ocean (ERSST v4) temperature dataset. We’ve identified the two periods of interest on the figure. All datasets also show some cooling between 1945 and 1975.


 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

A paper is out that looks at the amount of 'committed warming' we have over land over the next few decades, based upon the GHG that we have already emitted- will 1.5 degrees C, which will put us near the 3 degree mark post-industrially.

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep30294#f3

Press Release:

High chance that current atmospheric GHGs commit to warmings greater than 1.5C over land
From the CENTRE FOR ECOLOGY & HYDROLOGY
Current levels of atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations already commit the planet to air temperatures over many land regions being eventually warmed by greater than 1.5°C, according to new research published today (27 July 2016) in the journal Scientific Reports.
The results of the new study have implications for international discussions of what constitutes safe global temperature thresholds, such as 1.5°C or 2°C of warming since pre-industrial times. The expected extra warming over land will influence how we need to design some cities. It could also impact on the responses of trees and plants, and including crops.
The research was carried out by scientists from the UK’s Centre for Ecology & Hydrology and the University of Exeter, UK.
The research team found two main reasons behind the result.
First, even if it was possible to keep carbon dioxide concentrations fixed at their current 400 parts-per-million concentration levels, then the planet would continue to warm towards new equilibrium higher temperatures. At present, the climate is out of equilibrium, with the oceans drawing down very large amounts of heat from the atmosphere. However this will decline as the planet is bought towards a stable climatic state.
Second, warming rates over land are far higher than those when averaged globally which include temperatures over the oceans. This is a feature observed in meteorological measurements and reproduced across a large suite of climate models.
Lead author Dr Chris Huntingford from the Centre for Ecology & Hydrology said, “It would certainly be inappropriate to create any additional fear over climate change. However, what this paper does is re-iterate that the oceans are currently acting as a very strong sink of heat. Even if carbon dioxide was somehow stabilised at current levels, additional warming will occur as we move towards an equilibrium climate state. Furthermore, both data and computer models all indicate enhanced temperatures over land, compared to global mean warming that includes temperatures over the oceans.”
Co-author Dr Lina Mercado, Senior Lecturer in Physical Geography at the University of Exeter, said, “Our findings suggest that we are committed to land temperatures in excess of 1.5°C across many regions at present-day levels of greenhouses gases. It is therefore imperative to understand its consequences for our health, infrastructure and ecosystem services upon which we all rely.”
Dr Chris Huntingford added, “Central to our methodology is analysis of predictions made by a large number of independent climate research centres from around the world. Although many simulations exist for climate stabilisation, these tend to be at future higher greenhouse gas concentrations. We were able to scale these back to see the warming levels we are already committed to, even if present-day concentrations increased no further. Such computer models capture how the ocean heat sink would be slowly lost as a stable climate is approached, implying that temperatures would continue to increase temporarily even if greenhouse concentrations were fixed at current levels.”

 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Virtually indistinguishable – Comparing early 20th Century warming to late 20th Century warming

Guest essay by Andy May Many writers, including Professor Richard Lindzen and Ed Caryl have noticed the remarkable similarity in global warming observed from around 1910 to 1944 and 1975 to 2009. The similarity in slopes exists in all global surface temperature datasets. Figure 1 shows the HadCRUT version 4 dataset and the NASA GISS…
Continue reading →

Many writers, including Professor Richard Lindzen and Ed Caryl have noticed the remarkable similarity in global warming observed from around 1910 to 1944 and 1975 to 2009. The similarity in slopes exists in all global surface temperature datasets. Figure 1 shows the HadCRUT version 4 dataset and the NASA GISS land (GHCN v3) and ocean (ERSST v4) temperature dataset. We’ve identified the two periods of interest on the figure. All datasets also show some cooling between 1945 and 1975.



The temperature growth is similar but the conditions aren't.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda



Oh look, Renae contributed nothing again.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Oh look, Renae contributed nothing again.

Well, TBH, 'nothing' is an improvement from her usual posts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Experts “surprised” to discover what skeptics have known for years: world has been warming for 200 years


For years, skeptical scientists have been pointing at data that showed the the world started warming somewhere from 1700 – 1820. This has been known fromglaciers, sea level studies, ice cores, boreholes, ocean heat content estimates, and more proxies than any climate-nerd cares to name.
Finally, expert climate modelers are “surprised” to discover this:
“…their study had detected warming in the Arctic and tropical oceans from around the 1830s, just 80 years after the Industrial Revolution started in England. “It was an extraordinary finding,” she said. “It was one of those moments where science really surprised us. But the results were clear. The climate warming we are witnessing today started about 180 years ago.”
How many grant dollars did it take to figure out what skeptical scientists have been saying for years?
The correlation with global temperatures and actual numerical human emissions is abysmal, so now Abrams et al ignore the numbers and appear to suggest that “

[h=4]Planes, cars and coal power plants make no difference to global warming[/h]Phil Jones told us that global temperatures kept heating at the same rate in the 1880s as they did in the 1920s as they did in the 1980s. (See that graph below).
The warming isn’t any different when human CO2 emissions are small or massive. The rate of warming was the same in the 1920s when nearly half of all horsepower still came from horses. Indeed without any electricity at all, and no cars, humans “caused” warming which was as fast as a decade when a billion people flew in the sky.
Then, when the Industrial Revolution hit China, the global temperatures “paused”.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Then, when the Industrial Revolution hit China, the global temperatures “paused”.

China is in a unique geographical position that is has some aerosols cooling the skies, and at the same time has aerosolized carbon blowing over the northern ice, melting it via the polar cell.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Climate sensitivity
Feet of clay: The official errors that exaggerated global warming

Part I: How the central estimate of global warming was exaggerated By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley In this new series, I propose to explore the sequence of errors, large and small, through which the climatological establishment has – until now – gotten away with greatly exaggerating climate sensitivity. The errors have an unholy, cumulative effect,…

. . . This is Part I of the series. In this first article, I shall describe a rather small error that arises from a consideration that will eventually be seen to have a very large influence on official exaggerations of predicted global warming. You may not think, at this stage, that it is really an error at all. Be patient. As this series unfolds, the full horror of what the climatological establishment has done will be exposed, step by ineluctable step. . . .



 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Climate sensitivity
Feet of clay: The official errors that exaggerated global warming

Part I: How the central estimate of global warming was exaggerated By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley In this new series, I propose to explore the sequence of errors, large and small, through which the climatological establishment has – until now – gotten away with greatly exaggerating climate sensitivity. The errors have an unholy, cumulative effect,…

. . . This is Part I of the series. In this first article, I shall describe a rather small error that arises from a consideration that will eventually be seen to have a very large influence on official exaggerations of predicted global warming. You may not think, at this stage, that it is really an error at all. Be patient. As this series unfolds, the full horror of what the climatological establishment has done will be exposed, step by ineluctable step. . . .




There is truth in what he says in the feedback the IPCC et al claims as being in forbidden territory. I have tried to explain runaway feedback before, but the warmers don't care about the truth.

It's amazing how many ideas surrounding electronics apply to other systems.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

There is truth in what he says in the feedback the IPCC et al claims as being in forbidden territory. I have tried to explain runaway feedback before, but the warmers don't care about the truth.

It's amazing how many ideas surrounding electronics apply to other systems.

Maybe you should explain your important tabletop scientific findings at an AGU conference.

Warmers will listen there, and since the audience will be much bigger, you should get much more laughter.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

[h=2]Climate policy: Fake it ’til you make it[/h][FONT=&quot]Posted on August 30, 2016 | 62 comments[/FONT]
by Judith Curry
The economic models that are used to inform climate policy currently contain an unhealthy dose of wishful thinking. Technologies that remove carbon dioxide from the air are assumed in the models that avoid dangerous climate change – but such technologies do not yet exist and it is unclear whether they could be deployed at a meaningful scale. – Tim Kruger
Continue reading
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

[h=1]Chaos & Climate – Part 3: Chaos & Models[/h]Guest Essay by Kip Hansen “The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.” – IPCC TAR WG1, Working Group I: The Scientific Basis Introduction: The IPCC has long recognized that the Earth’s climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system. Unfortunately,…
Continue reading →
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

[h=2]Australian temperatures unchanged for 20 years: Plus Malcolm Roberts first Senate speech is tomorrow[/h]
Malcolm Roberts will give his maiden Senate speech tomorrow (Tuesday) at 5pm at the Australian Parliament House in Canberra. To reserve seating contact Leon Ashby leon.ashby AT aph.gov.au or phone (02) 6277 3151. He has asked for updated graphs of the UAH data for Australia. His speech may beavailable via the APH website. (h/t Jim S)

Luckily for us the UAH satellite database can be filtered to track temperatures in the lower troposphere over the Australian land mass. Thanks to John Christy for providing an Australian specific dataset.
We’ve put out a third of all the CO2 homosapiens has ever made in the last 20 years, and it apparently has made no meaningful difference to temperatures here. We’ve put out 60% of all our CO2 since the satellite record began.

Here is the full Australian monthly data from 1979 – now for all seasons graphed below. There are breathless news articles hyping every hot month, every hot week, for records in every little region, and even for a single record hot nights, but no press release to say that temperatures in Australia have not really changed in a meaningful way since 1995.
Thanks to KensKingdom for regular updates to the UAH series and calculations of “the pause” in regions all over the world.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

A paper is out that looks at the amount of 'committed warming' we have over land over the next few decades, based upon the GHG that we have already emitted- will 1.5 degrees C, which will put us near the 3 degree mark post-industrially.

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep30294#f3

Press Release:

High chance that current atmospheric GHGs commit to warmings greater than 1.5C over land
From the CENTRE FOR ECOLOGY & HYDROLOGY
Current levels of atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations already commit the planet to air temperatures over many land regions being eventually warmed by greater than 1.5°C, according to new research published today (27 July 2016) in the journal Scientific Reports.
The results of the new study have implications for international discussions of what constitutes safe global temperature thresholds, such as 1.5°C or 2°C of warming since pre-industrial times. The expected extra warming over land will influence how we need to design some cities. It could also impact on the responses of trees and plants, and including crops.
The research was carried out by scientists from the UK’s Centre for Ecology & Hydrology and the University of Exeter, UK.
The research team found two main reasons behind the result.
First, even if it was possible to keep carbon dioxide concentrations fixed at their current 400 parts-per-million concentration levels, then the planet would continue to warm towards new equilibrium higher temperatures. At present, the climate is out of equilibrium, with the oceans drawing down very large amounts of heat from the atmosphere. However this will decline as the planet is bought towards a stable climatic state.
Second, warming rates over land are far higher than those when averaged globally which include temperatures over the oceans. This is a feature observed in meteorological measurements and reproduced across a large suite of climate models.
Lead author Dr Chris Huntingford from the Centre for Ecology & Hydrology said, “It would certainly be inappropriate to create any additional fear over climate change. However, what this paper does is re-iterate that the oceans are currently acting as a very strong sink of heat. Even if carbon dioxide was somehow stabilised at current levels, additional warming will occur as we move towards an equilibrium climate state. Furthermore, both data and computer models all indicate enhanced temperatures over land, compared to global mean warming that includes temperatures over the oceans.”
Co-author Dr Lina Mercado, Senior Lecturer in Physical Geography at the University of Exeter, said, “Our findings suggest that we are committed to land temperatures in excess of 1.5°C across many regions at present-day levels of greenhouses gases. It is therefore imperative to understand its consequences for our health, infrastructure and ecosystem services upon which we all rely.”
Dr Chris Huntingford added, “Central to our methodology is analysis of predictions made by a large number of independent climate research centres from around the world. Although many simulations exist for climate stabilisation, these tend to be at future higher greenhouse gas concentrations. We were able to scale these back to see the warming levels we are already committed to, even if present-day concentrations increased no further. Such computer models capture how the ocean heat sink would be slowly lost as a stable climate is approached, implying that temperatures would continue to increase temporarily even if greenhouse concentrations were fixed at current levels.”

So...theres nothing we can do about global warming. Good to see you have come around.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

So...theres nothing we can do about global warming. Good to see you have come around.

That's not the conclusion sentient people would draw from the information, but thanks for your thoughts anyway.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

That's not the conclusion sentient people would draw from the information, but thanks for your thoughts anyway.

Ah, that's right. You are the smart ones. Forgive me. So tell me, what conclusions do you deep thinkers draw from this?
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Ah, that's right. You are the smart ones. Forgive me. So tell me, what conclusions do you deep thinkers draw from this?

If you have to ask, you probably won't get it.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

If you have to ask, you probably won't get it.

Or, you aren't nearly as bright as you think you are.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

https://judithcurry.com/2016/09/13/global-climate-models-and-the-laws-of-physics/

Global climate models and the laws of physics

Posted on September 13, 2016 | 200 Comments
by Dan Hughes
We frequently see the simple statement, “The Laws of Physics”, invoked as the canonical summary of the status of the theoretical basis of GCM's. . . .
These statements present no actual information. The only possible information content is implicit, and that implicit information is at best a massive mis-characterization of GCMs, and at worst disingenuous (dishonest, insincere, deceitful, misleading, devious). . . .

 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

A paper is out that looks at the amount of 'committed warming' we have over land over the next few decades, based upon the GHG that we have already emitted- will 1.5 degrees C, which will put us near the 3 degree mark post-industrially.

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep30294#f3

Press Release:

High chance that current atmospheric GHGs commit to warmings greater than 1.5C over land
From the CENTRE FOR ECOLOGY & HYDROLOGY
Current levels of atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations already commit the planet to air temperatures over many land regions being eventually warmed by greater than 1.5°C, according to new research published today (27 July 2016) in the journal Scientific Reports.
The results of the new study have implications for international discussions of what constitutes safe global temperature thresholds, such as 1.5°C or 2°C of warming since pre-industrial times. The expected extra warming over land will influence how we need to design some cities. It could also impact on the responses of trees and plants, and including crops.
The research was carried out by scientists from the UK’s Centre for Ecology & Hydrology and the University of Exeter, UK.
The research team found two main reasons behind the result.
First, even if it was possible to keep carbon dioxide concentrations fixed at their current 400 parts-per-million concentration levels, then the planet would continue to warm towards new equilibrium higher temperatures. At present, the climate is out of equilibrium, with the oceans drawing down very large amounts of heat from the atmosphere. However this will decline as the planet is bought towards a stable climatic state.
Second, warming rates over land are far higher than those when averaged globally which include temperatures over the oceans. This is a feature observed in meteorological measurements and reproduced across a large suite of climate models.
Lead author Dr Chris Huntingford from the Centre for Ecology & Hydrology said, “It would certainly be inappropriate to create any additional fear over climate change. However, what this paper does is re-iterate that the oceans are currently acting as a very strong sink of heat. Even if carbon dioxide was somehow stabilised at current levels, additional warming will occur as we move towards an equilibrium climate state. Furthermore, both data and computer models all indicate enhanced temperatures over land, compared to global mean warming that includes temperatures over the oceans.”
Co-author Dr Lina Mercado, Senior Lecturer in Physical Geography at the University of Exeter, said, “Our findings suggest that we are committed to land temperatures in excess of 1.5°C across many regions at present-day levels of greenhouses gases. It is therefore imperative to understand its consequences for our health, infrastructure and ecosystem services upon which we all rely.”
Dr Chris Huntingford added, “Central to our methodology is analysis of predictions made by a large number of independent climate research centres from around the world. Although many simulations exist for climate stabilisation, these tend to be at future higher greenhouse gas concentrations. We were able to scale these back to see the warming levels we are already committed to, even if present-day concentrations increased no further. Such computer models capture how the ocean heat sink would be slowly lost as a stable climate is approached, implying that temperatures would continue to increase temporarily even if greenhouse concentrations were fixed at current levels.”

I am 100% certain that the AGW train has left the station. All we can do now is prepare. There is no stopping it.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

I am 100% certain that the AGW train has left the station. All we can do now is prepare. There is no stopping it.

Even if that's the case, you can always prevent it from getting worse, by curbing emissions ASAP.
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

Even if that's the case, you can always prevent it from getting worse, by curbing emissions ASAP.

Yes, we need to curb aerosol emissions.

But what will we do about land use?
 
Re: Today's warming is going to get worse, even if we totally stop GHG emissions toda

[h=2]New Science 26: The solar fall and the delay means David Evans’ predicted global cooling could be just around the corner[/h]
We are ramping up the end of this series because we’ve been informed that both of David’s papers will be published in October — one on the error in the climate models and one on the notch delay solar theory.
There are emphatic (and ignorant) claims that David’s predictions have failed, and a flaw was found — both are wrong. After all that fuss and pointless flamewars, his prediction remains almost exactly the same as it was in 2014. It is still untested. It is a strange coincidence of timing that the theory is up for a critical trial so definitively, so soon, but there it is. The fall in solar radiation that happened in 2004 is one of the three largest in 400 years. We are waiting to see if that will have an effect, after the expected delay of one sunspot cycle. For a real scientist there is no shame in putting an idea up on the chopping block. Hypothesize, test, and observe. As David says: “If the predicted cooling does not eventuate then the notch-delay hypothesis is false.” Without real predictions, it’s not real science.
But prediction is a risky business. There are so many ways things can go wrong, and we’ve had pleas from wise souls warning David not to put out an exact number and date. But he has always gone with the numbers, unemotionally shifting gears as the data swung. (I’ve seen him once coolly drop 18 months of work entirely when new information came in.) From the start, he has said that if the cooling doesn’t happen by 2022 then something is very wrong with the hypothesis. If the delay between solar TSI (as measured by PMOD) is really a half solar cycle, then some cooling effect should be visible soon — it will most likely start in 2017, but it may take ’til 2022 (it’s a technical thing — depending on whether the step function was “causal” as opposed to “non-causal”, see below). Of course, El Ninos or other natural variations may cloud the signal. If a volcano erupts, or a La Nina kicks in, it will take longer to filter the noise.
For the sake of the public “debate” notice that the fall in solar radiation (TSI) is a fall in smoothed data — averaged over 11 years. We expect Leif Svalgaard to continue to deny there was a fall. He’s talking about his data, and ignoring the smoothing. David discusses the different datasets below.
David’s overarching prediction is that the 2020s will be no warmer than the 1980s, which should kill off the carbon dioxide theory of global warming.
In the end, we’re only talking of ~0.3 °C of cooling, which is significant on a global scale, but not something you’ll notice in the garden at home. . . .

 
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