• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels

There has been no harm that outweighs the good.

Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

With all the ever-increasing rules and regulations that the EPA is insisting upon - even as utilities comply with all prior R&R's - I am beginning to believe that utility companies must be emitting nothing but pure oxygen from their smokestacks at this point! :shock:
 
There has been no harm that outweighs the good.

But there has been lots of harm. And to say we shouldn't try to reduce harm through exploring alternatives is just stupid. There is far more good to be had through diversifying the means of energy production and seeking alternatives than to rely only on finite and volatile fossil fuels
 
Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

With all the ever-increasing rules and regulations that the EPA is insisting upon - even as utilities comply with all prior R&R's - I am beginning to believe that utility companies must be emitting nothing but pure oxygen from their smokestacks at this point! :shock:

Greetings Polgara.:2wave:

Let's hope we can survive the EPA.
 
But there has been lots of harm. And to say we shouldn't try to reduce harm through exploring alternatives is just stupid. There is far more good to be had through diversifying the means of energy production and seeking alternatives than to rely only on finite and volatile fossil fuels


Fossil fuels are so much better than any alternative (except perhaps nuclear) that diversification means degradation.
 
Fossil fuels are so much better than any alternative (except perhaps nuclear) that diversification means degradation.

How so? Nuclear should be the main source of power, and green energy sources would compliment it. It's far better you have solar, wind and hydro feeding into a mainly nuclear grid than to keep mining and burning coal and oil just out of nostalgia for the industrial revolution.
 
How so? Nuclear should be the main source of power, and green energy sources would compliment it. It's far better you have solar, wind and hydro feeding into a mainly nuclear grid than to keep mining and burning coal and oil just out of nostalgia for the industrial revolution.

The green sources have neither the carrying capacity nor reliability to take a substantial part of the load.
 
The green sources have neither the carrying capacity nor reliability to take a substantial part of the load.

Sure they do, I saw an article about Scotland generating a whole days power from wind. Fossil fuels have a place as a reserve, but nuclear is the way of future.
 
You're not very good at this debate thing. Can you tell me why fossil fuels are preferable to nuclear?

They're not preferable to nuclear, but the same people who advocate for green energy generally oppose nuclear.
 
The only reason why we haven't gone to renewables is because of the coal and hydrocarbon lobby. I know for a fact Denmark is completely powered by renewables, Sweden and Finland are other countries putting a huge chunk of their power in renewables. I wouldn't be surprised there are people from the hydrocarbon sector that make accounts on forums like these and argue why we should keep hydrocarbons. Renewables are completely feasible in their current efficiencies, and in combination with other forms, can easily power entire countries. There's no reason why we shouldn't transition except the fact that the fat cats who own hydrocarbon power would be out of business.
 
I don't consider the CO2 and greenhouse gas issue to be a matter of "belief", but rather an issue of whether or not a person is ignorant of the facts.

Nonetheless, "belief" or not, fossil fuels are on their way out. The world still has huge reserves but they are increasingly difficult to tap into. Our usage of fossil fuels is exponential. Even something like oil... the demand increases by millions of barrels per day. It's not sustainable, not just environmentally but economically. We have to excavate increasingly precarious locations in order to find what we need.

It would make more sense to convert what we can to renewable energy sources, while using fossil fuels in areas that we can't yet compromise on, until further solutions are invented.

In other words, why does it have to be a zero sum game? Most countries are implementing dual policies. It's foolish to do otherwise.
 
The question was asked.

No, I mean who cares that some people oppose nuclear power. Some people oppose solar power because they think it drains the sun. Not all opinions are equal.
 
No, I mean who cares that some people oppose nuclear power. Some people oppose solar power because they think it drains the sun. Not all opinions are equal.

Green energy advocates generally oppose nuclear as well as fossil fuels because they do not want abundant energy.
 
Green energy advocates generally oppose nuclear as well as fossil fuels because they do not want abundant energy.

Simply false.
 
Opposition to fossil fuels is in fact opposition to human well being and the social/economic progress of mankind. The green/clean power agenda is profoundly anti-human.


The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels

Review and Summary of “The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels” By Andy May The best-selling book The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels was first published November 27, 2014 by Penguin. The author, Alex Epstein, took a BA in Philosophy from Duke University in 2002. He is the President of the Center for Industrial Progress, a…

Continue reading →

". . . Epstein presents a very well written discussion of the climate change debate. He destroys the 97% consensus myth, explains that the carbon dioxide greenhouse effect decreases logarithmically with concentration and shows that the climate computer models used to compute man’s influence on climate have never successfully predicted anything. He also shows that global warming has not increased extreme weather of any kind and that the dangers from extreme weather are less today than at any time in man’s history largely due to fossil fuels. He discusses Craig Idso’s pioneering research proving that increasing carbon dioxide acts as a powerful fertilizer for many plants. . . .

The book challenges this idea that fossil fuels have a negative effect on society. It is a fascinating, fact filled and well-reasoned discussion of the impact fossil fuels have had on our world since they were introduced on a mass scale over 120 years ago. There are 7 billion people on the Earth today and we are better fed, live better and longer than nearly every one of the 900 million people who lived in 1800. It is worth remembering that the average life expectancy, at birth, in 1800, in the UK was about 39 years. Epstein argues that with fossil fuels:
“We don’t take a safe environment and make it dangerous; we take a dangerous environment and make it far safer.”
So what about those that argue against fossil fuels? Fossil fuels are largely responsible for the quality of life we enjoy today, the food we eat, the rapidly falling rate of poverty, our longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality and many other humanitarian benefits. How could someone argue to take away fossil fuels if they valued human life? It seems they value “pristine nature” over human life. . . .

In McKibben’s book The End of Nature, he argues that we need a ‘humbler world” and “Human happiness [should] be of secondary importance.” A Los Angeles Times review in 1989 of McKibbon’s book calls man a cancer and plague upon the Earth. The author, David Graber, continues:
“McKibben is a biocentrist, and so am I. We are not interested in the utility of a particular species, or free-flowing river, or ecosystem, to mankind. They have intrinsic value, more value–to me–than another human body, or a billion of them. Human happiness, and certainly human fecundity, are not as important as a wild and healthy planet.”
Whew! We might need to report him to the Department of Homeland Security. This is the precise opposite of Epstein’s priority of humanity first. Thus, to effectively debate the use of fossil fuels it is important that the debaters state their priorities. Does humanity come first? Or does minimizing human impact on the environment come first? It turns out that this choice makes a huge difference.
The book argues that even if fossil fuels created no waste, including no CO2, if they were even cheaper, if they would last forever, the “Green” movement would still oppose them. The Green movement is not just for a pristine environment untouched by man, they are against human progress. . . .


:fart
 
Nothing presented here excludes nuclear.

Sure it does, you present fossil fuels as the fuel of the future based on its past, which ignores the immense advantages nuclear has over it as the fuel of the future.
 
Sure it does, you present fossil fuels as the fuel of the future based on its past, which ignores the immense advantages nuclear has over it as the fuel of the future.


There is not a single anti-nuclear statement in the OP.
 
Back
Top Bottom