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Climate Change: History and Politics

blackjack50

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I have a few questions on this:

1) Aren't we aware that climate change has always happened? Haven't there been drastic shifts in climate to the point of killing off several species of animal? Climate that has impacted history? Including food shortages that crippled nations? If this is the case: what can we do as humans?

2) For anthropogenic change: who are the worst nations about causing it? And what specifics are we talking? Green house gas? Who produces the most? How can we reduce their output? Will it matter?
 
I have a few questions on this:

1) Aren't we aware that climate change has always happened? Haven't there been drastic shifts in climate to the point of killing off several species of animal? Climate that has impacted history? Including food shortages that crippled nations? If this is the case: what can we do as humans?

2) For anthropogenic change: who are the worst nations about causing it? And what specifics are we talking? Green house gas? Who produces the most? How can we reduce their output? Will it matter?

I'm just going to answer some of these questions off the top of my head, but I am sure that others will come in with more information and sources.

1) Yes, we are well aware of climatic changes in the past and there have been periods of dramatic climatic shifts that led to several species dying - although those events were caused by extreme events like massive volcanic activity or meteor impacts. The issue with the current extinction event is that we know the root cause can not be increased volcanic activity or meteor impacts or orbital mechanics or solar activity. Process of elimination brings us to the most likely cause - green house gases from human production. The other issue is the rate at which previous climatic events took place and the current shift. For example, the last time (out of roughly 800,000) that the CO2 concentration rose by 80 points (the amount it rose from 1900 to 2000) took approximately 5,000 years. The climate is just changing too rapidly for most plants and animals to adjust properly and safely.

2) The worst nations are China, the US, the European Union, India, and Russia (in that order). On a per capita basis, it is the United Arab Emirates, Australia, United States, Saudia Arabia, and Canada (in that order). This is based on carbon dioxide production - the most abundant greenhouse gas that we are artificially adding to the atmosphere. Methane, which is greenhouse gas that is more potent than CO2, but breaks down much faster in the atmosphere, is also being produced to the greatest extent by the aforementioned countries. We are currently reducing outputs by setting emission goals and standards for the various contributors (power plants, cars, etc.). It is largely based on voluntary agreements and self-enforcement. The question of will it matter is supremely complex and depends a great deal on unknown scientific variables (the climatic sensitivity), whether countries will actually abide by and enforce their agreed upon goals, and whether countries will revisit the issue in the near future to enact stricter requirements. As it stands, most experts believe that the Paris accord if fully enacted will yield about 2.7 celsius of warming over the next century which is significantly higher than the 2 degree goal set by the conference. If the climate sensitivity proves to be on the lower scale of what most climatologists agree or countries revisit the issue in the near future to set stricter guidelines, then we will see less warming.
 
Where we are evaluating CO2 production per nation, shouldn't the amount of natural sequestration be taken into account? So, take for instance the US, where we are one of the leaders in CO2 production. We also have huge tracts of forest land (Russia, Brazil, Canada and the US lead the world in that order) which are CO2 sinks.

Also, does anyone know how great the CO2 contribution from greenhouses worldwide is?
 
I'm just going to answer some of these questions off the top of my head, but I am sure that others will come in with more information and sources.

1) Yes, we are well aware of climatic changes in the past and there have been periods of dramatic climatic shifts that led to several species dying - although those events were caused by extreme events like massive volcanic activity or meteor impacts. The issue with the current extinction event is that we know the root cause can not be increased volcanic activity or meteor impacts or orbital mechanics or solar activity. Process of elimination brings us to the most likely cause - green house gases from human production. The other issue is the rate at which previous climatic events took place and the current shift. For example, the last time (out of roughly 800,000) that the CO2 concentration rose by 80 points (the amount it rose from 1900 to 2000) took approximately 5,000 years. The climate is just changing too rapidly for most plants and animals to adjust properly and safely.

2) The worst nations are China, the US, the European Union, India, and Russia (in that order). On a per capita basis, it is the United Arab Emirates, Australia, United States, Saudia Arabia, and Canada (in that order). This is based on carbon dioxide production - the most abundant greenhouse gas that we are artificially adding to the atmosphere. Methane, which is greenhouse gas that is more potent than CO2, but breaks down much faster in the atmosphere, is also being produced to the greatest extent by the aforementioned countries. We are currently reducing outputs by setting emission goals and standards for the various contributors (power plants, cars, etc.). It is largely based on voluntary agreements and self-enforcement. The question of will it matter is supremely complex and depends a great deal on unknown scientific variables (the climatic sensitivity), whether countries will actually abide by and enforce their agreed upon goals, and whether countries will revisit the issue in the near future to enact stricter requirements. As it stands, most experts believe that the Paris accord if fully enacted will yield about 2.7 celsius of warming over the next century which is significantly higher than the 2 degree goal set by the conference. If the climate sensitivity proves to be on the lower scale of what most climatologists agree or countries revisit the issue in the near future to set stricter guidelines, then we will see less warming.

The scattergun "debate" approach neatly rebutted!
 
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Where we are evaluating CO2 production per nation, shouldn't the amount of natural sequestration be taken into account? So, take for instance the US, where we are one of the leaders in CO2 production. We also have huge tracts of forest land (Russia, Brazil, Canada and the US lead the world in that order) which are CO2 sinks.

Also, does anyone know how great the CO2 contribution from greenhouses worldwide is?

You may find this article interesting: The US Is a Net CO2 Sink – A Few Things Ill Considered

Humans produce about 36 gigatons of CO2 per year.
 
The scattergun "debate" approach neatly rebutted!

Mine isn't a debate. It doesn't need a rebuttal. I just want an answer. It would be like you asking me questions on firearm makes or late 19th century Europe and the build to the First World War lol. It would be an appeal to someone who (while maybe not an expert) is more interested in the topic.
 
I have a few questions on this:

1) Aren't we aware that climate change has always happened? Haven't there been drastic shifts in climate to the point of killing off several species of animal? Climate that has impacted history? Including food shortages that crippled nations? If this is the case: what can we do as humans?

2) For anthropogenic change: who are the worst nations about causing it? And what specifics are we talking? Green house gas? Who produces the most? How can we reduce their output? Will it matter?

Good start but wrong direction of questions. Try these;

How much impact on climate do humans have?

If the worste case, most extreme, of the predictions happen, what will be the bad effects and the good effects?


The answers will surprise you. They are that the worste case is now, after 18 years of data since the 1998 projections were made, that it is not going to be that sever if at all, +2c at most. That this will be positive. Indeed it is hard to find anything that would be at all bad about it. The sea level is not going to rise by anything that will be much more than trivial to counter with a few sea defences and the effect on agriculture will be very beneficial. As is already happening.

This is of course if the temperature does get back to actually rising. It had better get a shimmy on as well as it's getting to be too late for it to catch up with the +2c by 2100 result.
 
Where we are evaluating CO2 production per nation, shouldn't the amount of natural sequestration be taken into account? So, take for instance the US, where we are one of the leaders in CO2 production. We also have huge tracts of forest land (Russia, Brazil, Canada and the US lead the world in that order) which are CO2 sinks.

Also, does anyone know how great the CO2 contribution from greenhouses worldwide is?

Forrest, trees, only store the carbon. If they are chopped down they nolonger store it and only will they take carbon out of the air if there are new trees grown.

Even then the amount of CO2 absorbed by trees is small compaired to the amount of fossil fuel burnt.

CO2 is mostly absorbed and sequestrated away for a long time by the action of plankton in the world's oceans. This happens as a result of the tiny creatures of the seas making shells which use carbon and these drop to the sea floor to form limestone.
 
I have a few questions on this:

1) Aren't we aware that climate change has always happened?

Of course. But anthropogenic climate change has never happened before.

Haven't there been drastic shifts in climate to the point of killing off several species of animal? Climate that has impacted history? Including food shortages that crippled nations?

Yes, but as you say, rapid climate change is not a good thing. Some of the species on Earth are ones we depend on for food. And the climate change we're causing now is among the most rapid in the geological record.

If this is the case: what can we do as humans?

We can stop using fossil fuels. There are plenty of alternatives.

2) For anthropogenic change: who are the worst nations about causing it?

Historically, the US is way out in front. Currently, China has a lead over the US, but not by much.

And what specifics are we talking? Green house gas? Who produces the most? How can we reduce their output? Will it matter?

Emissions are conventionally measured in "CO2e" or CO2-equivalent. Some greenhouse gases are more potent than others on a molecule-for-molecule basis, and CO2e is a way to account for that. Methane, for example, counts 26 times more than CO2 by mass (although there is much less methane emitted than CO2, so CO2 is still the biggest problem).

As stated above, the US and China are the biggest emitters, currently account for about 40% of global emissions. What we need is a rapid transition to non-fossil forms of energy: nuclear, hydro, and renewables. Ground transportation can be mostly covered by electric vehicles, and aviation can use synfuels. The transition could be hugely accelerated by adopting a fossil carbon tax. British Columbia has one, and was able to eliminate income taxes as a result. Their economy is growing faster than Canada's as a whole.

And yes, it will definitely matter. The more fossil carbon we leave in the ground, the lower the final surface temperature will be. Your grandchildren (and their grandchildren) will bless those with the foresight to act now, before it's too late.
 
Of course. But anthropogenic climate change has never happened before.

And we have no way to quantify how much of it is happening now or if it makes todays conditions in any way unprecedented. We have had dozens of phases like today since the last glaciation and today is well within normal natural variability in both its level and rate of change

Yes, but as you say, rapid climate change is not a good thing. Some of the species on Earth are ones we depend on for food. And the climate change we're causing now is among the most rapid in the geological record.

But the record simply doesnt bear this out as the ice core record from both poles will confirm. Today is quite unremarkable

We can stop using fossil fuels. There are plenty of alternatives.

Not if you do a proper cost/benefit analysis that include all the subsidies involved per MwH generated

Historically, the US is way out in front. Currently, China has a lead over the US, but not by much.

The extra CO2 in our biosphere is a good thing and has caused an 11% greening of our planet since satellite monitoring of it began in 1982

Emissions are conventionally measured in "CO2e" or CO2-equivalent. Some greenhouse gases are more potent than others on a molecule-for-molecule basis, and CO2e is a way to account for that. Methane, for example, counts 26 times more than CO2 by mass (although there is much less methane emitted than CO2, so CO2 is still the biggest problem).
Your local greenhouse owners would beg to differ on the alleged problems of extra CO2

And yes, it will definitely matter. The more fossil carbon we leave in the ground, the lower the final surface temperature will be. Your grandchildren (and their grandchildren) will bless those with the foresight to act now, before it's too late.

So what is this ideal mean temperature the world should be and why are todays or tomorrows somehow all wrong ?

How will taxation be able control global temperatures and what empirical evidence do we have that this would work ?
 
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And we have no way to quantify how much of it is happening now

Of course we do. Scientists measure things all the time.

or if it makes todays conditions in any way unprecedented.
We know that too. For example, the last time CO2 levels were this high, there were no humans on the Earth. That's unprecedented in human history.

We have had dozens of phases like today since the last glaciation and today is well within normal natural variability in both its level and rate of change
False. The fastest warmings in the geological record are when we come out of glaciations. Typically that's about 3.5° in 8000 years. The current climate change that we're causing is more than 10 times faster than that.

But the record simply doesnt bear this out as the ice core record from both poles will confirm. Today is quite unremarkable.

Utterly false. You have fallen into the trap of believing the entire earth is the same temperature as the polar regions. It's not.

Not if you do a proper cost/benefit analysis that include all the subsidies involved per MwH generated
On the contrary, a proper accounting of the external cost of fossil fuels makes them by far the most expensive things we use for energy. It's just that the cost isn't paid for by the person who buys the fuel, it's paid for by the rest of society.

http://web.csulb.edu/~dhall/Encyclopedia of Energy.pdf
http://www.atse.org.au/Documents/Publications/Reports/Energy/ATSE Hidden Costs Electricity 2009.pdf

The extra CO2 in our biosphere is a good thing and has cause an 11% greening of our planet since satellite monitoring of it began in 1982
Global warming does have some benefits, but the costs far, far outweigh those.

Your local greenhouse owners would beg to differ on the alleged problems of extra CO2
Those conditions don't exist over most of the earth. As a general rule, water is the limiting substance for plant growth. Once water is satisfied, the bottlenecks for plant growth are phosphorus and fixed nitrogen, in that order. (That's why fertilizers contain phosphates and nitrates). It's only after plants get enough water, phosphates, and nitrates that extra carbon makes a difference. You see those conditions in greenhouses, but not often in nature.

So what is this ideal mean temperature the world should be and why are todays or tomorrows somehow all wrong ?
Earth is a complex planet and there is no one ideal temperature for everywhere. But there is one ideal forcing: zero. And we're way, way above that now.

How will taxation be able control global temperatures and what empirical evidence do we have that this would work ?

When we tax fossil carbon in a way commensurate with its true cost, that will encourage resource-switching to nonfossil alternatives. The empirical evidence I've already mentioned: BC has it, and it works.
 
Of course we do. Scientists measure things all the time.

Oh they can certainly measure the level of CO2 in our atmosphere alright but until we know its actual value climate sensitivity of it so what ? Its fingerprint has yet to be discerned from the noise of natural background climate variability

We know that too. For example, the last time CO2 levels were this high, there were no humans on the Earth. That's unprecedented in human history.

It doesn't matter what the CO2 level is doing because so far the only directly measurable effect of it has been a beneficial one. The rise in temperature today is modest compared to the many post glacial natural precedents suggesting it is nothing like as significant as is being claimed

False. The fastest warmings in the geological record are when we come out of glaciations. Typically that's about 3.5° in 8000 years. The current climate change that we're causing is more than 10 times faster than that.

Thats not what the ice core record shows and I'll trust real world data over subjectively programmed climate model reconstructions every time

Utterly false. You have fallen into the trap of believing the entire earth is the same temperature as the polar regions. It's not.
You guys can't have it both ways. The polar ice seems to be important when it fits your agenda yet instantly dismissed when it does not

On the contrary, a proper accounting of the external cost of fossil fuels makes them by far the most expensive things we use for energy. It's just that the cost isn't paid for by the person who buys the fuel, it's paid for by the rest of society.

Renewables don't work and can never work no matter how much is squandered on the alter of green idealism as the Germans have been finding out the hard way of late

Global warming does have some benefits, but the costs far, far outweigh those.
Its global cooling we should fear not global warming as anecdotal evidence from the historical texts of the past make clear. Longer growing seasons and greater yields as a consequence of the increased temperatures combined with increased CO2 levels is a situation to be wished for not fought against

Those conditions don't exist over most of the earth. As a general rule, water is the limiting substance for plant growth. Once water is satisfied, the bottlenecks for plant growth are phosphorus and fixed nitrogen, in that order. (That's why fertilizers contain phosphates and nitrates). It's only after plants get enough water, phosphates, and nitrates that extra carbon makes a difference. You see those conditions in greenhouses, but not often in nature.

The observed evidence to date paints the opposite picture

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130708103521.htm

And much of the Earth IS benefitting as the recent CSIRO satellite research has proven over the last 3 decades

Earth is a complex planet and there is no one ideal temperature for everywhere. But there is one ideal forcing: zero. And we're way, way above that now.

Not according to any real world paleoclimatic study done anywhere on the planet, but who needs the real world when climate models will tell you everything you want to hear. Unfortunately there are currently quite a number of problems with those and here is why

http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c0120a5c9415b970b-pi

When we tax fossil carbon in a way commensurate with its true cost, that will encourage resource-switching to nonfossil alternatives. The empirical evidence I've already mentioned: BC has it, and it works.

If the sums added up like you say then we'd already be doing it.
 
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Oh they can certainly measure the level of CO2 in our atmosphere alright but until we know its actual value climate sensitivity of it so what ? Its fingerprint has yet to be discerned from the noise of natural background climate variability

False on both counts, as sensitivity is easily measured empirically, and is far, far above natural variability:

19391738322_6c1f95ebfe_o.jpg


It doesn't matter what the CO2 level is doing because so far the only directly measurable effect of it has been a beneficial one.

False: insurance losses from climate-related events are rising dramatically worldwide (while losses from geological events remain flat).

MunichRe2015-638x377.jpg


The rise in temperature today is modest compared to the many post glacial natural precedents suggesting it is nothing like as significant as is being claimed

False.

9514983706_194a04bc8d_o.jpg


Thats not what the ice core record shows and I'll trust real world data over subjectively programmed climate model reconstructions every time

Polar regions are not the entire world. Global temperature reconstructions are data, not models. You've been lied to.

You guys can't have it both ways. The polar ice seems to be important when it fits your agenda yet instantly dismissed when it does not

False. Polar data is included in global temperature reconstruction. But it's not all the data that's in there.


Renewables don't work and can never work no matter how much is squandered on the alter of green idealism

Renewables work fine in limited quantities. And nuclear works fine. And hydro works fine.

Its global cooling we should fear not global warming as anecdotal evidence from the historical texts of the past make clear.

Anecdotal evidence is (a) anecdotal, not quantified; and (b) local, not global. We have better data than that, but since it doesn't fit with your political agenda, you choose to ignore it.

Longer growing seasons and greater yields as a consequence of the increased temperatures combined with increased CO2 levels is a situation to be wished for not fought against

Photosynthesis shuts down at 35°C, as global warming causes more droughts, more floods, and more hail. Crop losses in the US have been climbing dramatically.

fdd07162015_fig4.jpg


The observed evidence to date paints the opposite picture
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130708103521.htm
But much of the Earth IS benefitting as the recent CSIRO satellite research has proven over the last 3 decades

Even your own map shows that the areas benefitting most are frequently not under cultivation, like western Australia. Meanwhile, vast areas in South America, Africa, and east Asia show less cover, not more. And in fact, the paper cited only looked at arid areas, not the globe as a whole.

Not according to any real world paleoclimatic study done anywhere on the planet,
You don't need a paleo study to determine current forcings. You've been lied to.

but who needs the real world when climate models will tell you everything you want to hear. Unfortunately there are currently quite a number of problems with those and here is why
http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c0120a5c9415b970b-pi

Please explain why Earth's albedo is classified as "low understanding or lack of data". Or do you not care to defend the crapola you post?

If the sums added up like you say then we'd already be doing it.

If Republicans knew Thing One about economics, we'd already be doing it.
 
False on both counts, as sensitivity is easily measured empirically, and is far, far above natural variability:

This is nonsense. No value for the correct climate sensitivity of CO2 has ever been definitively established within published science to date. Its all currently a load of guesstimation

False: insurance losses from climate-related events are rising dramatically worldwide (while losses from geological events remain flat).

Or perhaps its simply that more people are insured against these eventualities than there used to be


The Marcott graph is a joke that bears no resemblance to any real world proxy study ever published from anywhere on Earth

Medieval Warm Period

Polar regions are not the entire world. Global temperature reconstructions are data, not models. You've been lied to.

I'd seriously doubt that given the dozens of papers contradicting Marcott & Mann

CO2 Science

Popular Technology.net: 1350+ Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skeptic Arguments Against ACC/AGW Alarmism

Renewables work fine in limited quantities. And nuclear works fine. And hydro works fine.

Renewables are a waste of time and money. Gas fracking is the way forward its cheaper cleaner and likely to last far longer than most other choices

Anecdotal evidence is (a) anecdotal, not quantified; and (b) local, not global. We have better data than that, but since it doesn't fit with your political agenda, you choose to ignore it.

I don't have a political agenda but I do know when I'm being scammed. Thats why I always check the facts before having my bank account depleted

Photosynthesis shuts down at 35°C, as global warming causes more droughts, more floods, and more hail. Crop losses in the US have been climbing dramatically.
The observed satellite data shows the opposite

Even your own map shows that the areas benefitting most are frequently not under cultivation, like western Australia. Meanwhile, vast areas in South America, Africa, and east Asia show less cover, not more. And in fact, the paper cited only looked at arid areas, not the globe as a whole.

Does extra CO2 somehow act differently dependent on geography because thats not what the well established science of agriculture has known for many decades ?

You don't need a paleo study to determine current forcings. You've been lied to.
Best take it up with the authors of the dozens of sublinked papers you've been given then

If Republicans knew Thing One about economics, we'd already be doing it.

Why would I care a jot what your politicians think ?
 
Does extra CO2 somehow act differently dependent on geography because thats not what the well established science of agriculture has known for many decades ?

It's been a solid two years since I first saw you post this CSIRO link - off the top of my head, one of the only if not the only credible scientific source you've ever used - and pointed out, more than once, all the same problems with your abuse of it as Poor Debator is (plus a little more!):

> Obviously - explicitly so - the study only suggests a CO2 fertilization effect in arid areas (and not even all of those), yet you are dishonestly claiming it to be a global benefit

> There is no clear indication that CO2 fertilization is an unlimited effect even in those regions (ie, continuing beyond 400ppm, beyond 500ppm etc.), and on the contrary other factors such as soil quality and water availability are more obvious and likely constraining factors on plant growth in most if not all areas

> For you specifically, with breath-taking ignorance and hypocrisy you claim that this is "the only directly measurable effect" of increased CO2 when the process - observing an effect, linking it to a range of plausible causes and subtracting the influence of all other known contributors - is exactly the same for attribution to CO2 of both greening deserts and warming climate!​

Your apparently endless dismal misunderstanding of such relatively simple points is quite worrying.
 
I have a few questions on this:

1) Aren't we aware that climate change has always happened? Haven't there been drastic shifts in climate to the point of killing off several species of animal? Climate that has impacted history? Including food shortages that crippled nations? If this is the case: what can we do as humans?

2) For anthropogenic change: who are the worst nations about causing it? And what specifics are we talking? Green house gas? Who produces the most? How can we reduce their output? Will it matter?

1) Yes, but generally the temperature takes a long time to change. What can we do ? Geoengineering. It's pretty controversial since we can't even get the public to come to a consensus on whether or not global warming is real. Its risks are significant as these systems are ridiculously complicated, further, the science still has a lot of room for improvement.

2) China and the US. China in total. US per capita. Greenhouse gases. Our primary source of energy uses these large hydrocarbon chains. Basically it's a really big carbon chain molecule. If we ignite this really big carbon chain molecule, it releases all this chemical energy it has stored. The problem is that we're releasing significant amounts of the byproducts of these similar chemical reactions into the atmosphere. Further, we know that the byproducts (a) stay in the atmosphere for varying periods of time and (b) result in our planet absorbing more energy from the sun rather than deflecting that energy back into outer space.
 
Your apparently endless dismal misunderstanding of such relatively simple points is quite worrying.

Not quite as worrying as your ongoing demonization of CO2 a known vital and highly beneficial gas across the board for all kinds of agriculture
 
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Of course. But anthropogenic climate change has never happened before.

Yes it has.

Whe humans got to Austrialia they increased the number of fires. This dried out the whole continent.

When the Arab conquest armies swept through North Africa they destroyed the irrigation system to make pasture for their goats. The land turned to desert. It has never recovered.

When the Turks conquered what is now Turkey they did the same to central Anatolia.

When the Mongols killed many millinos in today's Iraq they did the same.

When the Spanish first exploredthe Amazon they found lots of people living in dense intensive agricultural societies. When they sailed back down the river the place was strangely quiet. They were all dying of the various diseases that the Spanish ship had brought with it. The Amazon returned to dense jungle. Lots of CO2 was absorbed. There was the little ice age a bit later. I wonder if these are linked?
 
Paris was an enviro-fail, but a PR success, and political win — it’s a non-binding, non-treaty, but real commitment.


Watch the pea. What does it mean to have a non-binding non-treaty, at the same time as a real “commitment”? It’s all semantics, and, as usual, word games are the weapons of big-bureaucrats. Don’t be fooled into thinking Paris was no threat to the free West.

As I keep saying, the climate conference in Paris was not trying to reduce CO2 or change the climate. The real aim is an endless free lunch for freeloaders. The Politicites didn’t get the legally binding agreement they dream of, but what they got may turn out to be almost as good. Marlo Lewis explains it may yet be politically binding on the target rich Western nations, which is all that really matters. It’s the best strategic review I’ve seen of what happened in Paris. . . .
Paris Agreement Is a Real Tiger: Lock and Load
Marlo Lewis
Summary: The Paris climate agreement is “non-binding, underfunded, and unenforceable,” as one conservative commentator put it. However, Paris is a “paper tiger” only on paper. The treaty’s core purpose is not to impose legal obligations but to establish the multi-decade framework for a global political pressure campaign. The pressure will be directed chiefly at those who oppose EPA’s unlawful Clean Power Plan and other elements of the President’s climate agenda. Republicans will get rolled unless GOP leaders organize a political counter-offensive centered around a Byrd-Hagel 2.0 resolution. Key message point: Contrary to President Obama, the Paris agreement is a treaty, hence it is not a policy of the United States until the Senate ratifies it. . . .

Second, an agreement in which each country promises to implement its own “nationally determined contribution” (NDC) to limiting global emissions allows Obama to pretend EPA’s Clean Power Plan (CPP) and other elements of his domestic climate agenda are “commitments” America has made to the world.
The solution — pass a Byrd-Hagel 2.0

….watershed event in that battle was the Senate’s passage of the Byrd-Hagel Resolution in July 1997. Byrd-Hagel preemptively nixed any climate agreement, like Kyoto, that would either exempt developing countries from emission-reduction targets and timetables or harm the U.S. economy.
GOP leaders and their allies must mount their own campaign to undercut the global political pressure regime Obama plans to construct via the Paris treaty. The most important thing they can do is pass a Byrd-Hagel 2.0, such as the concurrent resolution introduced by Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) and Rep. Mike Kelly (R-Penn.). For maximum effect, they should pass it before April 22, 2016, when the Paris treaty is officially open for “ratification, acceptance, accession, or approval.”
The resolution and accompanying outreach should resoundingly affirm the following basic points:
(1) The legislative and executive branches are co-equal and treaty making is a shared power. The President does not get to decide unilaterally what is and is not a treaty subject to Senate review.
(2) The Paris agreement, by virtue of its detail, the extent of its commitments, previous national practice, and other factors, is a treaty.
(3) The United States is not a party to a treaty until and unless the Senate ratifies it.
(4) The President cannot unilaterally adopt U.S. emission-reduction targets and timetables as part of an international climate agreement, without violating the terms on which the Senate ratified the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change.
(5) Evading Senate review by falsely claiming Paris is not a treaty would make executive agencies less accountable to Congress and the American people and more beholden to foreign leaders, U.N. bureaucrats, and unaccountable NGOs.
Read the whole analysis at Cooler Heads.
 
Not quite as worrying as your ongoing demonization of CO2 a known vital and highly beneficial gas across the board for all kinds of agriculture

Who cares ? OP didn't ask for proof for or against AGW.
 
Three years ago . . .

[h=3]Ten Year Anniversary of the Climate Change Paradigm Shift[/h]www.americanthinker.com/.../ten_year_anniversary_o...


American Thinker


Aug 21, 2013 - When advocates of the anthropogenic paradigm challenged Shaviv and Veizer's ... called cosmoclimatology by Henrik Svensmark, one of its originators. .... Election 2016: Trump, Cruz to Face Off in Debate (Associated Press).
 
I have a few questions on this:

1) Aren't we aware that climate change has always happened? Haven't there been drastic shifts in climate to the point of killing off several species of animal? Climate that has impacted history? Including food shortages that crippled nations? If this is the case: what can we do as humans?

2) For anthropogenic change: who are the worst nations about causing it? And what specifics are we talking? Green house gas? Who produces the most? How can we reduce their output? Will it matter?

1) yep. And it's a bad thing. Especially when it happens quickly. And we now know we are doing it with emitting CO2, and it looks like the rate it's happening is dramatically greater than in any time in human civilization.

So what we can do as humans is try to control our CO2 emissions before it's too late (and it may already be too late).

2) US, Europe and China lead the world in CO2 emissions, with the US *way* out ahead in per capita emissions.

We can reduce them by pricing the environmental cost in- make people pay now rather than make future generations pay.

Will it matter? It should- it may be the difference between OK and bad, or bad and really bad. Either way, the cost now will be dwarfed by the costs of doing nothing.
 
Interviews with Richard Tol

Posted on 06 Jan 16 by Paul MatthewsLeave a comment
There’s an interesting blog based in Belgium called Trust, yet verify. If you’re not familiar with it, do take a look, there are plenty of good posts there. The blogger, Michel, describes in a series of posts starting here how he started out as a devout believer in what we were being told about the climate … Continue reading →

There’s an interesting blog based in Belgium called Trust, yet verify. If you’re not familiar with it, do take a look, there are plenty of good posts there. The blogger, Michel, describes in a series of posts starting here how he started out as a devout believer in what we were being told about the climate crisis, then started to look into it in more detail, asked questions, was not satisfied by the answers and the tone in which they were delivered, and gradually became more sceptical – a very familiar story.
Just before Christmas, he posted up a translation of an interview with Richard Tol, done by a Belgian newspaper. Tol is an economist whose research focuses on economy-related aspects of climate change and climate policy. He’s one of the most highly cited researchers in the field and an IPCC author, writing for WG2 about economic impacts. He is not a climate sceptic (he accepts IPCC projections of temperature rise), but is often painted as such, since he departs from the climate activist line that climate apocalypse is close unless we all take action now. His views are of interest partly because he doesn’t fit into the polarised “us vs. them” story that so many in the media and academia like to tell. . . .

From this interview we learn that

  • Richard Tol used to be a member of Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth.
  • His early research was on the statistical link between greenhouse gases and climate change.
  • He set out to prove Nordhaus’s low carbon price argument wrong – but ended up proving Nordhaus right.
  • There is huge uncertainty in the impact and economic cost of carbon dioxide emissions.
  • The UK is a model for how not to implement climate policy.
  • He supports a modest carbon tax, and opposes subsidies for green energy systems.
  • Many of the more dramatic impacts of climate change are really symptoms of mismanagement and poverty.
There’s also quite a bit about his withdrawal from the IPCC Summary team, on the grounds of their excessive alarmism, and his view on the benefits of warming, and much more. Other points of amusement are repeated questions from Harrabin that try to make Tol feel guilty for providing arguments for ‘contrarians’, and the mis-transcribing of Marseille as Masai.



 
[h=2]Bob Carter[/h] Jan 19, 2016 – 3:24 PM
I was very saddened to learn of the sudden death of Bob Carter ( here here). He was one of the few people in this field that I regarded as a friend. He was only a few years older than me and we got along well personally.
I will not attempt to comment on his work as that is covered elsewhere, but do wish to mention something personal. In 2003, when I was unknown to anyone other than my friends and family, I had been posting comments on climate reconstructions at a chatline. Bob emailed me out of the blue with encouragement, saying that I was looking at the data differently than anyone else and that I should definitely follow it through. Without his specific encouragement, it is not for sure that I ever would have bothered trying to write up what became McIntyre and McKitrick (2003) or anything else.
We’ve met personally on a number of occasions over the years – at AGU in 2004 or 2005, and on several occasions at Erice, most recently last summer. He was always full of good cheer, despite continuing provocations, and unfailingly encouraging.
R.I.P.
 
[h=2]Insights from Karl Popper: how to open the deadlocked climate debate[/h] Posted on January 28, 2016 | 157 comments
by Larry Kummer, from the Fabius Maximus website.
Many factors have frozen the public policy debate on climate change, but none more important than the disinterest of both sides in tests that might provide better evidence — and perhaps restart the discussion. Even worse, too little thought has been given to the criteria for validating climate science theories (aka their paradigm) and the models build upon them.
Continue reading →
 
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