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The Impacts of Carbon Taxes on the U.S. Economy

Yes it is, but it is till a legitimate question. Why taxes vs debt given that liberals ALWAYS justify debt in any other context?

Oh, so now it's not "infinite debt" with "no consequences?"
Now you want to talk about debt like a reasonable person?

Also, we don't ALWAYS do that in any other context either. Absolutes, man, they don't work out.
 
Oh, so now it's not "infinite debt" with "no consequences?"
Now you want to talk about debt like a reasonable person?

Also, we don't ALWAYS do that in any other context either. Absolutes, man, they don't work out.

Ok I want to talk about debt like a reasonable person, if $18T in debt (100% of GDP) is no problem then at what amount of debt does a liberal all of a sudden consider debt to be a problem?
 
I'm not denying that the climate is changing. What I'm seriously skeptical about is that it's man made, or cause by man.

In the Earth's long history, there have been times when there was far more CO2 in the air than there is now. There were times when the Earth was far warmer than it is now. The Earth is a large and slow moving system of which the climate system is only a part of, which cycles, this we do know. How do we know that this post-ice age warming trend isn't part of a large and longer natural climate cycle?

The climate certainly has changed on its own in the past. It has also changed enough to have nearly wiped all life on Earth. What caused those changes in the past? Scientists know it was greenhouse gasses. When the gasses increased, the planet became warmer. When they decreased, the Earth became cooler. Sometimes it was sudden, sometimes it was gradual. With sudden changes came mass extinctions. Scientists also know that since the industrial revolution we are spewing CO2 into the atmosphere at an artificially high rate. But even if you do not believe me or the overwhelming number of scientists don't you think it is best to err on the side of caution when it comes to taking care of our planet?

It may be that the sun if brighter and hotter than before.

It is not.

It may be that the Earth's cyclical orbit has taken the Earth closer to the sun.

Unfamiliar with this argument. Link?


Yet the climate alarmists insist that it's the right thing to pretty much crater the entire world's economy on this basis (or is it just the US's economy?), and I'm sorry, but I'm simply not convinced that this is necessary and justified at this point and at this level of understanding of the climate system and the Earth system that we've achieved to date.

This whole "cratering the economy" argument is just a scare tactic. We do not need to destroy the economy or return to a paleo lifestyle to repair the damage.
 
Ok I want to talk about debt like a reasonable person, if $18T in debt (100% of GDP) is no problem then at what amount of debt does a liberal all of a sudden consider debt to be a problem?

Crickets just as I suspected.
 
Crickets just as I suspected.

No, there is no answer to your question. The only magic number at which public debt becomes a problem is when we cannot pay the public debt.

Personal debt is the problem. Raising the minimum wage sure would be nice.

Sticky wicket

Government Debt Isn't the Problem
 
No, there is no answer to your question. The only magic number at which public debt becomes a problem is when we cannot pay the public debt.

That is the equivalent of an addict saying I can quit any time I want.

Since we can pay off the $18T debt lets do it ... queue the excuses
 
Fuel taxes should be raised here in the US. It is currently $0.184 per gallon on gasoline and hasn't increased in years. I say double it, and index it to quarterly inflation. Now I'm one that normally wants to see taxes reduced, but fuel taxes support of roads, and see fuel taxes more as a fee.

If you reduce other taxes it is okay to increase gas taxation I guess.
 
That is the equivalent of an addict saying I can quit any time I want.

Since we can pay off the $18T debt lets do it ... queue the excuses

The debt is only about $14T. We can just cancel the intergovernmental holdings and print up 2,000,000,000,000 seven dollar bills. Problem solved.
 
The climate certainly has changed on its own in the past. It has also changed enough to have nearly wiped all life on Earth. What caused those changes in the past? Scientists know it was greenhouse gasses. When the gasses increased, the planet became warmer. When they decreased, the Earth became cooler. Sometimes it was sudden, sometimes it was gradual. With sudden changes came mass extinctions. Scientists also know that since the industrial revolution we are spewing CO2 into the atmosphere at an artificially high rate. But even if you do not believe me or the overwhelming number of scientists don't you think it is best to err on the side of caution when it comes to taking care of our planet?

Of course we should be good stewards of the only planet we have. But I think we should be focusing on doing so without damaging the economy on which so many people depend on for the essentials of life (unless of course you volunteer to be the first).

Also, we will have to recognize that even if we do magically eliminate all CO2 emissions, that it still may not have any significant impact on climate, that the warming period would continue regardless, but none of the climate redistributionists want to even talk about that, and it's as valid as the other side of the coin.

It is not.



Unfamiliar with this argument. Link?




This whole "cratering the economy" argument is just a scare tactic. We do not need to destroy the economy or return to a paleo lifestyle to repair the damage.

If you hike energy prices, who, exactly do you think is going to carry the largest part of the cost burden? That'd be the middle class.

Not only will the middle class be paying more for the energy they use in their homes for heating, cooling, cooking and so on, they'll also be paying more for having the mere privilege of moving about using their cars and trucks. They'll also be hit with price increases for all the food and goods they buy because the transportation and manufacturing consume energy and their costs will go up and be directly passed long to the middle class.

Which is the largest segment of the population that purchases the most goods and services? That'd be the middle class. So I'm not seeing how it's unavoidable to crater the economy by putting yet more cost burden on the already stretched thin and struggling middle class.

To pretend that this excessively regressive energy tax isn't going to have a detrimental impact on the economy is pretty much sticking your head in the sand, reducing, if not eliminating, credibility.

Why not a special 'climate change tax' on those who purport to believe in this? I see it as just as fair.
 
If you reduce other taxes it is okay to increase gas taxation I guess.

I am in favor reducing income and/or sales tax to counter an increase in gas tax. A dividend, as one poster proposed, I think would also be nice.
 
I am in favor reducing income and/or sales tax to counter an increase in gas tax. A dividend, as one poster proposed, I think would also be nice.

I don't think that anybody believes that.
 
Ok I want to talk about debt like a reasonable person, if $18T in debt (100% of GDP) is no problem then at what amount of debt does a liberal all of a sudden consider debt to be a problem?

Ok, let's talk about it like a reasonable person.

Let's start off with this idea you have where 18 trillion in debt is seen as "no problem" by liberals. How about you find me a single post where a liberal says it's "no problem," as opposed to saying it's "not a catastrophe." Can we start there?

I mean, look at your post. Once again, you are going with absolutes. Your two options are "no problem" and "sudden[ly] consider debt to be a problem."
 
I don't think that anybody believes that.

Then I highly suggest you look up what a "geoist" aka "Georgist" is. We are for the abolition of all taxes except those on land values and pollution.
 
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