Thread: Are electric cars green

Originally Posted by Porchev

Again, electric cars are just shifting from one fossil fuel to another one:

"Despite what most people believe, a high percentage of the world's electricity is produced using dirty fuels like coal. This isn't going to change anytime soon; in fact, the widespread introduction of electric cars will probably increase the world's reliance on coal in order to keep up with the increased demand for electricity."

"Claims that electric cars are 'emissions-free' are simply a lie; they merely transfer the pollution from the road to the power station. Not only will electric cars not reduce emissions, they may actually increase emissions, because burning coal to make electricity to power an electric car creates more pollution than if you simply powered the same vehicle using petrol."

Electric Cars Harm Environment - Report | Voxy.co.nz

Nonsense. An electric motor is vastly more efficient at turning electricity into motive force than a gas engine is at turning gas into motive force. Even when your electricity comes from a fossil fuel plant, the power plant is more efficient at turning fossil fuels into electricity than your gas engine is at turning gas into motive force. Add to this the fact that not all electricity comes from fossil fuels, and overall electric cars are substantially better. More importantly, they can be greatly improved by getting more of our electricity from nuclear, solar, and wind plants.

Pollution free? No, of course not. Nothing is pollution free. But electric cars are objectively better.

Originally Posted by the_recruit

I don't really care what people spend their resources on. Toyota is in the business of selling a product to customers - they're not an altruistic entity dedicated to solving global warming for the greater good. So, if they wanna make hybrids and people wanna buy em, good for them. I don't care.

Me niether

As I've already said I don't own a hybrid, I don't want one, and I can't say I advocate anyone else getting one. They're not really a solution to any sort of problem

And I agree

, more like a small step in the right direction

Cars like the prius are a technological cul de sac and in fact an environmental liability when you compare them to more fuel efficient non hybrids

I'm defending them because the sort of intellectual dishonesty spewed by sawyer and others IS part of the problem

The intellectual dishonesty is really all on the side of those that drive them unless they really were too dumb to check out far cheaper and more eco friendly alternatives . I rather suspect the cost of buying the 'moral superiority tag' was what swayed them not the environmental concerns if they were really honest with themselves. Its why Hollywoods 'right on' elites see them as the latest fashion statement/gimmick

Originally Posted by the_recruit

Again,

intellectual dishonesty =/= dishonesty.

Intellectual honesty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Comprende? Didn't think so...

Typical lib, call someone a liar but can't point to the lie because it doesn't exist. I will play your game though, show my post that meets Wikipedia definition of intellectual dishonesty. Really I am curious about this because I strive for honesty and accuracy.

Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon

Typical lib, call someone a liar but can't point to the lie because it doesn't exist. I will play your game though, show my post that meets Wikipedia definition of intellectual dishonesty. Really I am curious about this because I strive for honesty and accuracy.

How about repeating straw man arguments?

Recruit is researching all my post on this subject desperately looking for intellectual dishonesty on my part. hurry up damnit, I have things to do.

Originally Posted by the_recruit

the life-cycle energy requirements of hybrids and smaller cars are far lower than Hummers and other large SUVs

True, but not of equitably sized vehicles.

OK recruit, I have some things to do before bed. I'll check in tomorrow and see what evidence you have dug up on me, goodnight.

Originally Posted by the_recruit

Where are you getting this "every two years" claim? A cursory google search indicates the Prius battery (the hybrid ni-mh battery that powers the motor, not the standard 12-volt lead acid battery every car has) lasts for around 100,000 miles or more. Besides ni-mh batteries are conducive to recycling.

I retract that claim. It is something I read about the early Prius and appears to no longer be the case.

How often do hybrid batteries need replacing? Is replacement expensive and disposal an environmental problem?
The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and 10 years, depending on the carmaker and the location.

Battery toxicity is a concern, although today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards.

There's no definitive word on replacement costs because they are almost never replaced. We have seen anecdotal reports of total battery replacements costing about $3,000.

Source

My big concern with electric cars is the power grid. When everyone is running their air conditioners in the summer there are often rolling brownouts because the power grid can’t handle the demand. What happens when everyone starts plugging their cars in too? Are we just going to build more hydro dams and power plants?

Originally Posted by GPS_Flex

My big concern with electric cars is the power grid. When everyone is running their air conditioners in the summer there are often rolling brownouts because the power grid can’t handle the demand. What happens when everyone starts plugging their cars in too? Are we just going to build more hydro dams and power plants?

I have said the same thing over and over. Some people think electricity just magically appears at your socket, all you need whenever you need it.