Thread: The Cheapest Cars in America to Fill Up

Originally Posted by ChuckBerry

That's a good habit because it also extends the life of your fuel filter and possibly your fuel pump. Trash in the gas settles to the bottom of the tank, and the less fuel in the tank correlates to a greater ratio of trash being sucked in by the fuel filter. Also, since the fuel pump on many cars is in the tank and uses the fuel in the tank to cool it, running your tank too low can result in an overheated fuel pump, which can reduce its useful life.


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I didn't know that. One more reason not to let our tank get too empty.

Originally Posted by lpast

6 grand to change the batteries in an older prius...you absolutey can rebuild an engine and tranny for the price of batteries....
Having said that there are companies working feverishly to produce batteries that are much cheaper for electric autos...

I personally will never own an electric car....I dont do enough driving anymore to justify it or to recoop any of the costs

Batteries are getting cheaper, more reliable, and able to hold more energy. Meanwhile, gas is getting more expensive. Currently, it's hard to justify the cost in terms of fuel savings, but that may not be true much longer.

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

And you've been doing it the other way. Making outlandish claims about how economical an electric vehicle is, while ignoring the tremendous impact that the cost of replacing the battery will have.

For the cost of replacing the battery in an electric vehicle, you can replace the engine and transmission in many internal-combustion-engined vehicles.

Isn't it fair to say that the cost of replacing the battery in an EV, is counter-balanced by general maintenance and repair costs specific to the more complicated engine in an Internal combustion car? That's what I'm trying to get at.

And my claims about the economy of EVs are not outlandish at all. Nissan itself is saying the Leaf can travel 25 miles for every $1 spent. This is presuming electricity cost of $0.12/Kwh. Compare this to an IC car that gets 30mpg, and for the sake of simplicity assume gas is $4/gal. The IC car gets 7.5 miles for every $1 spent. More info here:
Atypical Mile Measurement Campaigns - Nissan Leaf Ad Tracks How Miles Per Dollar Cars Can Travel

Of course everything changes depending on the cost of gas and the cost of electricity. The Leaf's extraordinary performance makes sense if you think about it. In an IC car you'll see about 15%-18% of the energy you paid for in gas actually get to the wheels. You're only getting a small fraction of the energy you pay for. In an EV like the Leaf, you're getting 85%-90% of the energy back from the battery (energy is always lost in storage), and the electric motor gets 85%-95% of that energy to the wheels. Far higher percentages. So it should be no surprise that EVs can go farther on the dollar.

You said in a later post than this one that an EV is not appropriate for you at this time, but may be later. And that's totally cool. EVs as they are now will not work for everybody. So not everybody should feel compelled to get one. For me, a leaf would be terrific. I drive my wife 3 miles to work, then drive back. Same thing again to pick her up. I may run errands, but everything we need is close by. I could go days (possibly a full week) without needing to recharge. For long range driving, I already have an IC car, but wouldn't need it most of the time. My operating costs would drop precipitously, and I could flip the bird at Hugo Chavez and the Saudis with their al-Queda buddies. That's my favorite part.

To be fair, there was zero innovation in motor design in the US from the late 1970s till about 2010. There was no need too, since the industry had prevented better mileage regulations. That of course changed with the oil crisis and Obama upping the minimum mileage regulations for the first time since 1980.

Now in Europe the regulations were forced down on car companies and they had to adapt and that has resulted in new engine designs and far better mileage and less cost to the European car user.

Originally Posted by PeteEU

To be fair, there was zero innovation in motor design in the US from the late 1970s till about 2010. There was no need too, since the industry had prevented better mileage regulations. That of course changed with the oil crisis and Obama upping the minimum mileage regulations for the first time since 1980.

Now in Europe the regulations were forced down on car companies and they had to adapt and that has resulted in new engine designs and far better mileage and less cost to the European car user.

My 1971 Dodge Dart 6 cyl economy car averaged about 17 mpg overall, which was great mileage for that era.
My 2002 Tundra V8 4x4, not exactly a fuel economy champ, gets about the same.
My 1990 Honda Accord 4 cyl, with more power than the Dart, averaged 30 overall consistently over more than 200,000 miles.

No, it seems to me that engines got more efficient from 1970 - 2002.

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

I wouldn't rule out an electric car in my future. As things stand now, there's simply no way that one would make sense for me, or for any of the vast majority of other regular consumers.

But really, the only thing holding them back is the batteries, which are too expensive, too short-lived, have insufficient capacity, and take too long to recharge.



There are tremendous potential advantages that an electric car could have over an otherwise comparable internal-combustion-engined car, but at this point, and for any time in the easily foreseeable future, the limitations of battery technology are just too great, and they simply dwarf all the other advantages that an electric car could have. If we manage to make a few important breakthroughs in battery technology, then a point could easily be reached where internal-combustion-engined vehicles would rapidly become obsolete.

Im in a different position than you...hence the ill never own an electric car statement...Im near 65 it will be a least 10 yrs before they are viable as I see it....and I doubt ill care very much about saving pennies by then

My main transportation runs on pizza and salad.

199222_1012476506663_1067532530_65189_3677_n.jpg

My secondary transportation has a 1.1 gallon tank and about a 90 mile range.
Super8-150_0003.jpg


My environmentalist friends sometimes start the whole SUV/wasteful Americans guilt trip narrative with me but usually sort of trail off into a mumble once they remember who they are talking to.

Originally Posted by EagleAye

Isn't it fair to say that the cost of replacing the battery in an EV, is counter-balanced by general maintenance and repair costs specific to the more complicated engine in an Internal combustion car? That's what I'm trying to get at.

I don't know how the balance works out. Neither do you. But I think it is very telling that the cost of a battery replacement costs more than a complete replacement of engine and transmission for many conventional cars. It seems entirely plausible to me that with a normal car, you could get by on fairly minimal maintenance, completely replace the engine or transmission when it starts to fail, and still come out ahead on maintenance costs compared to replacing the battery in an electric vehicle. That's certainly not the most cost-efficient way to maintain such a car, of course.

Originally Posted by EagleAye

And my claims about the economy of EVs are not outlandish at all. Nissan itself is saying the Leaf can travel 25 miles for every $1 spent. This is presuming electricity cost of $0.12/Kwh. Compare this to an IC car that gets 30mpg, and for the sake of simplicity assume gas is $4/gal. The IC car gets 7.5 miles for every $1 spent.

I say your claims are outlandish and unrealistic, as they ignore a fairly major part of the cost of operating a car, and they ignore the initial cost of the car spread out over its expected usable life.

Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK

My main transportation runs on pizza and salad.

199222_1012476506663_1067532530_65189_3677_n.jpg

My secondary transportation has a 1.1 gallon tank and about a 90 mile range.
Super8-150_0003.jpg


My environmentalist friends sometimes start the whole SUV/wasteful Americans guilt trip narrative with me but usually sort of trail off into a mumble once they remember who they are talking to.

I have a chev 2500...I drive it during the winter and in the mountains when I go camping or to haul the boat. I have a Burgman 650CC scooter and a Suzuki 1500 I use most of the year. I van pool when I can. I feel no guilt driving the gas guzzler anywhere and as has been mentioned...it is Paid In Full, so that 350 a month I pay for gas doesnt sting.

Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK

My main transportation runs on pizza and salad.



My secondary transportation has a 1.1 gallon tank and about a 90 mile range.



My environmentalist friends sometimes start the whole SUV/wasteful Americans guilt trip narrative with me but usually sort of trail off into a mumble once they remember who they are talking to.

No one can say you don't walk the walk along with talking the talk. I applaud you, but am not ready to emulate that just yet.