repeter

Speaking from first hand experience, our educational system is arguably the most pathetic in the Western world. We help students along so much, that once they arrive in college, they are suddenly left to fend for themselves, and they cannot contend with the stress of it all. When students are in high school, their parents don't care enough to make them go to school, or the students are able to pass without learning anything at all. Our educational standards are so low, for example, I was technically eligible for college before high school.

Do we need to revamp our educational system? Do we need to get rid of Every Child Left Behind, and the Spiraling Math Systems?

__________________
Veni. Vidi. Vici.
-Gaius Julius Caesar
The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

lizzie

disclaimer: This is only my opinion, based on my observations, so I'm hoping that you guys can avoid getting your drawers in a wad.

It's not the education system that sets kids up to fail. It's parenting (or that lack thereof), and changing societal expectations that are setting kids up to fail, and the education system is just a cog in the wheel.

I was raised in the era where children were taught at home to respect adults. This meant that when you entered the classroom and the bell rang, you knew it was time to behave yourself and listen to the teacher. The school principal was the most feared person in the building during school hours.

Children were taught, and were expected to control their impulses and pay attention to what was being said at the front of the classroom. We didn't much like it, but we were able to control ourselves because we had been taught to do so at home. The ability to control one's impulses and concentrate on learning helps a student prepare mentally, physically, and psychologically for adulthood and higher education. There are plenty of intelligent children in the education system, but they are just not mentally disciplined at the same age level that some of those in my generation were.

That's just my two cents worth, so you got what you paid for.

Fiddytree

There is a general consensus that the education system is setting children up to fail. The problem comes when one tries to identify or label just why that is. Asking the why will present one with a whole host of theories produced by those of many varying political or economic dispositions, and very little agreement will be produced. This obviously produces a level of stagnation in problem solving, because rarely it is even understood just what the problem is, let alone how to fix it (or to what degree one could fix it). It could even make one question the validity in the notion that there is a crisis in education.

__________________
"Facing the issue means admitting what, in our zeal for new programs, we usually ignore: There are inherent limits to what can be accomplished by large hierarchical organizations"-James Q. Wilson, 1967

repeter

Well, its a mix of things. First, the educational standards are just pathetic. Second, we baby students along, then abandon them in college, and expect them to do well. Third, as Lizzie pointed out, the parents are just horrible.

These facts, in conjunction, have led to 1. stupid kids, and 2. a bad system.

__________________
Veni. Vidi. Vici.
-Gaius Julius Caesar
The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Fiddytree

Yeah, but everyone of the political and educational spectrum says that. Defining what the more proper standards are is the problem for all parties involved. On two polar opposites, one could argue that we do not demand enough from schools and students, and on the other, that we demand far too much from schools and students. Both arguments are equally compelling to the American public, when likely the answer is probably not going to be the answer the public is looking for. I'm expecting to continue to define the problem in the manner of speaking so often used by an old professor of mine when he was asked various questions about Native American history, religion, and politics: "Well, it all depends..."

And what about the literature that suggests we do not baby the students, but rather, placing them under much stress to be drilled and regurgitate?

Then I would question what you really mean by abandoning them in college. By some manner of virtu, are we not expecting, nay, desiring that an adult take control of his or her own education? Just what do you mean by this?

Have we left anyone out at this point? Not from what I can see. So basically, we don't know what precisely is going wrong, but surely, everyone is to blame. This is exactly what I have said. We know little about the problem other than there is the widespread perception that something is wrong. This makes it difficult to solve a problem, as if you cannot really define the problem, it will be immensely difficult to craft solutions.

__________________
"Facing the issue means admitting what, in our zeal for new programs, we usually ignore: There are inherent limits to what can be accomplished by large hierarchical organizations"-James Q. Wilson, 1967

Fiddytree

The one thing I would question, however, is one's perception of youth and their response to authority. It is not just the naive statements of youth that love to point to Plato's ranting on the contemporary youth, it is a viable historical observation that many disproportionately elevate the past's virtu in comparison to the decadence of modernity.

__________________
"Facing the issue means admitting what, in our zeal for new programs, we usually ignore: There are inherent limits to what can be accomplished by large hierarchical organizations"-James Q. Wilson, 1967

vvx

Actually, when I made the move from highschool to college I was disappointed in how dumbed down college felt. I was a good student in highschool. I took hard classes and took the AP version whenever available. Almost every class I took my senior year of highschool was more difficult and required more effort than any class my first quarter in college. I had these high expectations of college being a bunch of smart people where I would learn a lot. So I was quite disappointed.

I imagine if I took the easy classes in highschool it would have been more of a challenge. And certainly high schools in poorer areas wouldn't have been as good as the one I went to.

repeter

Okay, its a given that there are multiple "answers" to this problem. Obviously, to me, the best answer is to raise the standards above the heads of the students and force them to either catch up or get out. To me, its better to have lots of stupid kids, and a few smart kids, then a bunch of average kids. Of course, a lot more goes into this, and the public isn't famous for being smart, so whatever is sugar-coated the most will win out.

I would love to see some of that literature. All I see, when I go to school, is stuff I can do in my sleep, and that same stuff is hard for plenty of other people. I've gone to quite a few different schools, middle and high, before I found my current school, and through this time, I've found that the schoolwork is remarkably simple. For example, I took the CAHSEE last year. One question was literally, if 1 cm= 1 mL; 5,000,000 cm= ___ mL. That sort of standard, and the fact that we spend so much time on tutoring sessions where kids are practically given answers just helps kids too much.

When students get to college, if they have taken regular classes in high school, they are extremely likely to fail. The standards in college are a lot closer to what they should be IMO, but students cannot meet these standards because previous expectations of them have been so low. Its like going from..a county competition straight to a national level competition. You're just not prepared for it.

At this point, everyone is involved in the problem, and the answer.

The problem is spread out, and relevant in many areas. Parents influence kids more then school possibly can, and it is a parents job to teach a child what is right and what's wrong, what's good, and what's bad. Teachers cannot influence kids while they are at home, so its like a relay race. Parents need to teach their kids the importance of learning. I think, in the case of parents, we just need to let an extremely low standard of living set in. If 1 or 2 generations have it very bad, they will realize the importance of education, and moral values.

I do agree with you, this problem is very large, and for the most part, misunderstood or ignored. We need to change that.

__________________
Veni. Vidi. Vici.
-Gaius Julius Caesar
The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Kernel Sanders

What college did you go to? Mine has a great support system for its students

Again, for what college? Somehow I doubt you could have gotten into MIT in 8th grade

lizzie

Each generation has it's strong points and its weak points. The youth of today are generally encouraged more toward self-expression and creativity than the youth of my generation. That in and of itself is not necessarily a problem, but self-disclipine is necessary (imo) to help maintain a somewhat orderly and productive societal structure. Creativity and self-expression are great in that it fosters a stronger sense of self, but if that self cannot be channeled into productivity, either through contributing to a stable society that works to provide necessities for living, or into self-sufficiency on a personal level, then the creativity serves no purpose except for self-agrandizement. In other words, I may think my kid is the greatest human being on the planet, but if he lives in my home until he's in his thirties, and he does not show any responsibility for contributing to society, then he's really just soaking up the energy and resources of others. Since I believe that humans have an innate need to be productive and contribute at some level to society as a whole, I believe that fostering creativity and self-importance over the need to produce is harmful to an individual. The youth of my day were more centered around learning skills which would allow us to be independent of our parents. We were taught to tell ourselves "no" and learned delayed gratification. We were not told how great we were unless we really did something outstanding.