repeter

I'm in 11th grade. I have, however, taken college level courses before. In those, when I am graded on a curve, I have to do better then everyone else. In that type of class, which I assume all hard colleges use to grade, you are graded in regards to how much better you do then everyone else. This, needless to say, puts more pressure, and stress on everyone. You might need to get an A on a non-curve style, but only a B on a curved grade.

And with my age in consideration, I could not have gotten into the UC system, but I could apply and attend any private school. I know for a fact my local community college, which is the second best community college in California, would have accepted me.

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Kernel Sanders

I don't think I've even heard of a class that actually curves. Curving grades is professor-speak for "give everybody extra points based on the class grades." I just had a signals exam a bit ago where the average was a 68. It doesn't really matter, though, because they just add points to bump the average up to ~80-85. If the grades are high they just don't adjust scores

MIT?

Don't community colleges admit anybody? I didn't think you had to apply

lizzie

I have several younger friends who are currently in school, and curving grades seems to be quite common nowadays.

repeter

No, what it means is, you bave to do better then everyone else, and you have to hope they dont get high scores. The course I took was an economics course over the summer, in a secondary school program. In that class, if everyone got A's, then on a curve, everyone would get C's.

And I have taken all the tests and classes for MIT, but I doubt I would get in. I could get into state universities and the like.

Community colleges are just one example.

__________________
Veni. Vidi. Vici.
-Gaius Julius Caesar
The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Bodhisattva

Well put, I and have said essentially the same thing regarding this matter. The school system and curriculum are fine, the issue lies with the personal motivation and responsibility of the student and the inclusion of the parent. Teachers today are having to have professional development sessions about Classroom Management and Behavioral Modification. Why? It isn't that hard to tell students to sit down, be quite and listen. It isn't any harder than it was in the past. The difference is that students, and on a larger and larger scale, don't shut the hell up. It isn't one or two clowns anymore, you can have a room with 15 clowns, many of them disrespectful and massively disruptive in a class of 25.

I don't know how it used to be back in the day, but today, parents many times blame the teacher for their kids disruptive behavior, if you can believe that crap.

If less people would look to blame, which is a big part of the problem and society in the first place, and instead just put their head down and worked hard, there wouldn't be much to complain about then. We have a society of people that don't understand what personal responsibility is, and that is Liberalism at its worst. Just thought I would throw that last one in there... well, because it is true and it also sets people off.

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lizzie

Yes. I have friends who are public school teachers. More often than not, they claim that in a 45 minute class period, they spend about 35 minutes getting the kids to sit down and shut up.

Back in the day, we didn't want to get in trouble at school, because once our parents found out, we would be in worse trouble at home. Fear was a potent motivator.
And yes, I do believe that crap. When I was in my child-rearing years, I was aghast at how long school teachers and/or administrators would let a problem go on with my children before they let me know about it. I think in retrospect that it was because they thought I would try to blame the system rather than working to correct the problem with my children. I was old-fashioned even for my time.

Bodhisattva

I am a public school teacher and the students tell me that I am one of the only teachers who follows through on consequences when the rules are violated. As a result, I have students enter class that have been allowed to be out of control for some classes and then enter my class and I have to deal with it. Even though I give lunchtime detentions and such, kids still spaz out. Not a couple like years ago, but a lot. In the middle of talking some kid will just blurt stuff out, then others are disrupted and it is a nightmare. A mainstream normal class now is like a special education class from years ago. I don't have half the problems that I hear about, but one thing teachers can do is follow through better. Structure and consistency. Being a good teacher is like being a good parent. The two are related in the skills that it takes to be successful. The main issue though, is parenting, or lack of.

Part of it is that parents blame teachers. And that is sad. A problem with their kid and the parent blames the teacher. What kind of message does that teach the kid about taking responsibility. I had a girl who wouldn't stop interrupting and passing notes and all that... non-stop. Ridiculously unbelievable. I called her mom and her mom told me that when her daughter has a problem the mom usually finds that it is the teachers fault. Another mom threatened to kill me. Another mom said that she couldn't believe that I would interrupt some TV show she was watching, called me a **** and hung up on me. I just recently had a dad in for a mini-conference about his kid being picked on and the dad started talking about getting a group of older guys (in their 20s) to jump and put in hospital this one 15 year old kid. The dad was practically shouting and frothing at the mouth. Lots of these stories. After a while, even I start to not want to contact parents unless I know them or of them from others.

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"Only pompous idiots have a quotation as their signature" - Agnapostate

Layla_Z

You are exactly right and not just because you agree with me. Lack of parent involvement or maybe I should say appropriate parent involvement is a huge problem. Besides parents who don't care we have parents who micromanage and very quick to blame the teacher for any low grades their kids get.

The other big problem is the NCLB. That is setting schools up to fail. The focus is on scoring high on one test and not on learning. Subjects not covered by the test are ignored. Teachers who do not teach subjects covered by the test are forced to use their class time to help teach the subjects on the test. It is not about learning it is about teaching a test.

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George Carlin

lizzie

That is how it sounds. My hat is off to you for hanging in there and being persistent with trying to do something constructive for kids. If I were to take a guess, I would bet you are one of the teachers whom some students remember with fondness many years after their school days for trying to teach them something about life.

There is no doubt in my mind. As much as I hate to admit it, my generation is partly at fault for many of these problems. Many in my generation were the free love, no responsibility, do-it-if-it-feels-good, hedonistic idiots who believed that all you need is love. The problem is that many of them didn't have a clue what love was, and they still dont.

That is what I suspected, and tells me why, even 25 years ago, my childrens' teachers were reluctant to call me if there were problems that needed attention. Many parents try to be their childrens' friends, rather than being parents, and I believe it stems in part from a sense of guilt on the parents' part for not being there for their children. They over-indulge them, and try to buy their childrens' love, and they think they can be their childrens' friend. What they don't realize is that children (especially young ones) want parents. They want boundaries and a sense that someone is in control, because they are not capable of controlling themselves at a young age.
I believe that if you provide that control, a secure environment, and loving attention when they are young, they will grow into a more secure and satisfied individual later on.

(stepping off soap box!)

Ethereal

I agree that parenting is the root problem, but I'm certainly not prepared to give the education system a pass.

I think it is overly rigid and conformist, and forces certain students into failure. Basic math and grammar should be established in K-8, but highschool should be conformational, situational, and lateral. No one should be forced to take geometry, chemistry, gym, etc. Giving students and parents more latitude in their educational choices will help promote diversity in learning; it will also enourage parents to become more involved with their children's education.