Year-round school

Bodhisattva said:

Yeah... two daughters here. Then you understand that while it is a relief to have your kids busy and active during the day (ie babysitting)

Click to expand...

We don't get much relief in that department. My wife and I home school our oldest son and the younger one is two.

Bodhisattva said:

it is not really that except for those that don't value education. Big changes need to occur in education for it to be meaningful to all of society, rather than for the few that make it through to university level. Too many are left with a diploma, if that and nowhere to go.

Click to expand...

I put a very high value on meaningful education. Part of an important education to me is just general behavior, maybe its my bias but I see children that attend government schools as more uncontrollable and overall less educated.

I think that the high school diploma is overrated for sure, they need to structure it in a specific direction in my opinion.

Harry Guerrilla said:

We don't get much relief in that department. My wife and I home school our oldest son and the younger one is two.

Click to expand...

We are looking into doing this ourselves, as well...

I put a very high value on meaningful education. Part of an important education to me is just general behavior, maybe its my bias but I see children that attend government schools as more uncontrollable and overall less educated.

Click to expand...

I agree that many kids that attend government schools are uncontrollable and overall, less educated. BUT, there are many factors for this and none of them are the fault of the education system.

First... parenting. Kids are taught to behave, initially by their parents. It is unfair and illogical to say that kids in school are bad so the school is bad. Schools work with what they get, and if they get kids that reflect society, that is, kids from broken homes and kids that are not learning positive behavior since their parents don't understand how to parent positive behavior, then that is what the schools is stuck with.

Second...peer groups. They learn and adapt more to this group than any other, and there is nothing that any adult can really do to alter their lack of desire to conform if this has not already been instilled by the parents.

Third... media. MTV. IPODS. Cell phones... they are under a barrage of information, and this is not really that healthy at all.

I simply feel that people bash Education and Educators without looking at the roots of the issues. As if a teacher that sees students for a few hours a day really has a chance at altering the kids behavior. It can happens. It does happen. But it is not the teachers job, for one. Their job is to teach curriculum, not behavior. But instead, parents don't parent and kids have to learn parenting/behavior lessons from teachers, many of which are not psychologically adept at behavior management.

I think that the high school diploma is overrated for sure, they need to structure it in a specific direction in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Yeah. the Diploma is a joke. It is good for nothing, really. Even an AA doesn't merit much, if it ever really did. Any person that can't get a high-school diploma has truly and utterly failed themselves...

Bodhisattva said:

We are looking into doing this ourselves, as well...

Click to expand...

I think it is really good and all the stuff about socialization is just not true.

My son is extremely smart and it would be child abuse in my opinion to keep him back with children not as advanced as he is.

Bodhisattva said:

I agree that many kids that attend government schools are uncontrollable and overall, less educated. BUT, there are many factors for this and none of them are the fault of the education system.

First... parenting. Kids are taught to behave, initially by their parents. It is unfair and illogical to say that kids in school are bad so the school is bad. Schools work with what they get, and if they get kids that reflect society, that is, kids from broken homes and kids that are not learning positive behavior since their parents don't understand how to parent positive behavior, then that is what the schools is stuck with.

Click to expand...

I totally agree. That is really my main beef with schools. It is an institution were anyone can access to. Some parents and children must be kept out until their behavior can be reformed.

Bodhisattva said:

Second...peer groups. They learn and adapt more to this group than any other, and there is nothing that any adult can really do to alter their lack of desire to conform if this has not already been instilled by the parents.

Click to expand...

School peer groups are unnatural and counter productive in my opinion.

Bodhisattva said:

Third... media. MTV. IPODS. Cell phones... they are under a barrage of information, and this is not really that healthy at all.

Click to expand...

I agree with this also but it really falls on the parent not to expose them to this brain draining material.

Bodhisattva said:

I simply feel that people bash Education and Educators without looking at the roots of the issues. As if a teacher that sees students for a few hours a day really has a chance at altering the kids behavior. It can happens. It does happen. But it is not the teachers job, for one. Their job is to teach curriculum, not behavior. But instead, parents don't parent and kids have to learn parenting/behavior lessons from teachers, many of which are not psychologically adept at behavior management.

Click to expand...

I agree I may at times dump on individual teachers who I think deserve it but overall parents are lacking all across the board.

The existence of pre-k type programs illustrates that well. Parents should at least teach the basics of life to their children(reading, light math).

Bodhisattva said:

Yeah. the Diploma is a joke. It is good for nothing, really. Even an AA doesn't merit much, if it ever really did. Any person that can't get a high-school diploma has truly and utterly failed themselves...

Click to expand...

I had really bad experiences with high school. A large part of it was my fault and another part was my parents, they didn't make me go and didn't punish me when I didn't do anything.

I'm surprised I turned out like I have to be honest.

Harry Guerrilla said:

I think it is really good and all the stuff about socialization is just not true.

Click to expand...

That was never really a worry... I think that, across the board, every kid that I have known that has been homeschooled, that kid has been bright and more adept at communication (especially with adults) than most kids of their age. That is how we raise our kids already. Big vocabulary and able to communicate in an adult-like fashion, and they are still very young.

I totally agree. That is really my main beef with schools. It is an institution were anyone can access to. Some parents and children must be kept out until their behavior can be reformed.

Click to expand...

Agreed. There are too many people/kids screwing up education, and the PC police and those interested in ADA (ie money) seem not to care. If we could rid ourselves of the dregs, those that embrace gangs or drugs instead of education, then that would be a great first step. Trade Schools and learning programs for '"average" kids is another step, IMO.

School peer groups are unnatural and counter productive in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Agreed. The one thing that I was able to do, and I pat myself on the back for it actually, was to NOT get into one clique or group in HS or college. I was friends with just about every group, to be honest. I would spend most of the time with social and friendly athlete/surfers, but I would spend a week with the drama crew and then the metal heads, etc. It was dynamic to see how all these different people interacted and especially how they thought and viewed their reality.

I agree with this also but it really falls on the parent not to expose them to this brain draining material.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Too many parents use movies and TV as babysitter material instead of reading to their kids, or making a project... or just collecting bugs wtih them in the backyard and talking about plants and stuff.

I agree I may at times dump on individual teachers who I think deserve it but overall parents are lacking all across the board.

Click to expand...

Some teachers suck. They do. I just think that more resides on the parents.

I had really bad experiences with high school. A large part of it was my fault and another part was my parents, they didn't make me go and didn't punish me when I didn't do anything.

I'm surprised I turned out like I have to be honest.

Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that. My HS experience was great, but I knew a lot of people that hated it. Education certainly needs to change, but from the top down.

Bodhisattva said:

That was never really a worry... I think that, across the board, every kid that I have known that has been homeschooled, that kid has been bright and more adept at communication (especially with adults) than most kids of their age. That is how we raise our kids already. Big vocabulary and able to communicate in an adult-like fashion, and they are still very young.

Click to expand...

That is exactly what I experience. It is very odd because at first I wasn't sure of what the difference would be.

On many occasions, when we go to the park and other children are there, my son tries to play and ask them questions that they can't even fathom.

Most are just quiet and other may be more verbal but can't reach his vocabulary level. I was quite surprised the first time I saw it.

Bodhisattva said:

Agreed. There are too many people/kids screwing up education, and the PC police and those interested in ADA (ie money) seem not to care. If we could rid ourselves of the dregs, those that embrace gangs or drugs instead of education, then that would be a great first step. Trade Schools and learning programs for '"average" kids is another step, IMO.

Click to expand...

I'd like to see trade schools or apprenticing after 8th grade.
A combination could provide a small income plus the academics needed for specific trades.

Bodhisattva said:

Agreed. The one thing that I was able to do, and I pat myself on the back for it actually, was to NOT get into one clique or group in HS or college. I was friends with just about every group, to be honest. I would spend most of the time with social and friendly athlete/surfers, but I would spend a week with the drama crew and then the metal heads, etc. It was dynamic to see how all these different people interacted and especially how they thought and viewed their reality.

Click to expand...

I had a few friends but after middle school most everyone I knew went to another school.

I more or less made it through on my own until I met my wife my senior year.

The one thing I lost out on big was continued friendships. I don't know anyone, anymore from that time, it has hurt me in finding a better job through contacts.

Bodhisattva said:

Agreed. Too many parents use movies and TV as babysitter material instead of reading to their kids, or making a project... or just collecting bugs wtih them in the backyard and talking about plants and stuff.

Click to expand...

The one thing I regret right now is not having enough time to take my kids out more.
It is not often that I'm home more than a couple hours except weekends and on those I'm preparing for the next week.

Bodhisattva said:

Some teachers suck. They do. I just think that more resides on the parents.

Click to expand...

I think the quality of education that teachers have isn't enough to provide a comprehensive instruction in specific subjects.

One of the most popular degrees in my college is early childhood education and the survey of courses is pathetic.

Bodhisattva said:

Sorry to hear that. My HS experience was great, but I knew a lot of people that hated it. Education certainly needs to change, but from the top down.

Click to expand...

It's all good. I learned some valuable lessons from it.

Harry Guerrilla said:

That is exactly what I experience. It is very odd because at first I wasn't sure of what the difference would be.

On many occasions, when we go to the park and other children are there, my son tries to play and ask them questions that they can't even fathom.

Most are just quiet and other may be more verbal but can't reach his vocabulary level. I was quite surprised the first time I saw it.




I'd like to see trade schools or apprenticing after 8th grade.
A combination could provide a small income plus the academics needed for specific trades.




I had a few friends but after middle school most everyone I knew went to another school.

I more or less made it through on my own until I met my wife my senior year.

The one thing I lost out on big was continued friendships. I don't know anyone, anymore from that time, it has hurt me in finding a better job through contacts.



The one thing I regret right now is not having enough time to take my kids out more.
It is not often that I'm home more than a couple hours except weekends and on those I'm preparing for the next week.




I think the quality of education that teachers have isn't enough to provide a comprehensive instruction in specific subjects.

One of the most popular degrees in my college is early childhood education and the survey of courses is pathetic.




It's all good. I learned some valuable lessons from it.

Click to expand...

Interesting and a good read.

I only know one person from high school. But being that we live half way around the world now, that is not unexpected.

My daughters do very well, they are quite articulate and curious. They have like minded friends, but so many of the other kids, not all... but many, well, I can barely understand them. They have whiney voices and/or they can barely utter a coherent word. It is remarkable, and I would be embarrased, to a degree, if my kids sounded like that. I guess that they are just used to it though...

I would like to point out the part about teacher qualification. Most states, if not all, require a teacher to have a 4-year degree along with a teaching credential. That indicates that you have a fairly well-educated person teaching. In CA, it is required that teachers teach only in a qualified field, and they must prove this by passing a few comprehensive tests after all other qualifications are met. All in all, teachers are the most qualified underpaid professionals that there are.

That being said, there are those that get all the qualifications and are unable to teach well since they simply are not good at teaching. Teaching is an art, in all honesty. It is more than standing up and presenting some information. It is about balancing personalities, dealing with curriculm, etc. AND presenting information in a manner that is understandable to varying intelligence types/ learning styles.

Bodhisattva said:

Interesting and a good read.

I only know one person from high school. But being that we live half way around the world now, that is not unexpected.

My daughters do very well, they are quite articulate and curious. They have like minded friends, but so many of the other kids, not all... but many, well, I can barely understand them. They have whiney voices and/or they can barely utter a coherent word. It is remarkable, and I would be embarrased, to a degree, if my kids sounded like that. I guess that they are just used to it though...

Click to expand...

I can stand it a little more than my wife. She does not tolerate whines at all.

Bodhisattva said:

I would like to point out the part about teacher qualification. Most states, if not all, require a teacher to have a 4-year degree along with a teaching credential. That indicates that you have a fairly well-educated person teaching. In CA, it is required that teachers teach only in a qualified field, and they must prove this by passing a few comprehensive tests after all other qualifications are met. All in all, teachers are the most qualified underpaid professionals that there are.

That being said, there are those that get all the qualifications and are unable to teach well since they simply are not good at teaching. Teaching is an art, in all honesty. It is more than standing up and presenting some information. It is about balancing personalities, dealing with curriculm, etc. AND presenting information in a manner that is understandable to varying intelligence types/ learning styles.

Click to expand...

I don't believe my state has the same qualifications.

If I'm not mistaken you don't have to have a 4 year degree to teach elementary school.
After that you just have to have a basic certificate.

Teaching takes a lot of interpersonal skills for sure, I see a lot of the people who get into in my state are doing it mainly for job security and not because they are good at it.

The same is true for nursing here to though.

Well, to all you free thinkers who got on your computers (or cell phones), logged onto a discussion forum, and suggested that toys such as iPods and cellphones are for adults only and are "brain-draining"...

...likewise for you who believe that children would burn out if they attended school for more than 66% of the year learning at a handicapped pace in comparison to other countries...

...and especially those who believe that children who seem distracted or fall behind should be left uneducated...

...you cannot possibly believe that our meager, absurd, retarded school system is an adequate teaching institution for the same children that can often operate the computer you're on better than you.

Harry Guerrilla said:

It would be excellent.

They waste to much time on higher level math when most of these students won't use anything past algebra 1.

Reading is the same thing. Anything after 8th grade for a lot of people is to much.

Trade skills don't mean a life of poverty either since I now make less than most of those sectors.

Even after that if a person wants to go to a traditional college self study as well as tutoring will make it possible.

Click to expand...

But I don't believe that if you want to learn these skills you should be hindered from doing so. I think that kids should be going to college at an earlier age, and they should be taught social skills earlier.

Radical Ron said:

But I don't believe that if you want to learn these skills you should be hindered from doing so. I think that kids should be going to college at an earlier age, and they should be taught social skills earlier.

Click to expand...

This perspective shows evidence that our root problem is societal.

What changes could be made in this society to ensure a more adequate education system in this country?

Eko Ren said:

Well, to all you free thinkers who got on your computers (or cell phones), logged onto a discussion forum, and suggested that toys such as iPods and cellphones are for adults only and are "brain-draining"...

...likewise for you who believe that children would burn out if they attended school for more than 66% of the year learning at a handicapped pace in comparison to other countries...

...and especially those who believe that children who seem distracted or fall behind should be left uneducated...

...you cannot possibly believe that our meager, absurd, retarded school system is an adequate teaching institution for the same children that can often operate the computer you're on better than you.

Click to expand...

Now, now, fellow student, no need to make enemies so quickly. I'm not sure how difficult your school is if 66% of the year is laughable to you, but in the most advanced of the gifted programs in my area (International Baccalaureate), even the smartest students are always at risk of burning out. The problem is stuffing more education into the time we have; much of that 66% is entirely wasted.

We need more vocational programs; it's obvous that many kids aren't cut out for college. Unfortunately, too many schools fear the other meanings behind voactional education (that it implies kids aren't intelligent) and so all their classes are "college prep", even though they contain many kids who cannot afford or handle college. We need more gifted facilities, yes, especially when you compare gifted to handicapped funding, but the middle class (60-70% of the students, if not more) are the ones really left behind.

Edify_Always_In_All_Ways said:

Now, now, fellow student, no need to make enemies so quickly. I'm not sure how difficult your school is if 66% of the year is laughable to you, but in the most advanced of the gifted programs in my area (International Baccalaureate), even the smartest students are always at risk of burning out. The problem is stuffing more education into the time we have; much of that 66% is entirely wasted.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to make enemies. I'm being sarcastic. But.

In my experience in the educational world, base educational curricula give no reason for burning out. School is not difficult. Not in any way. Just as there are students throwing themselves from buildings and seeking therapy, there are also those who entertain recreational drug use and highly active social lives at no expense to their academic achievement.

And then, of course, there are those who graduate with a high school diploma or even a four year degree in two and three years (respectively).

Personally from experience and after reviewing statistics, I am thoroughly convinced that our country's intellectual mediocrity is not the fault of mediocre minds.

We need more vocational programs; it's obvous that many kids aren't cut out for college. Unfortunately, too many schools fear the other meanings behind voactional education (that it implies kids aren't intelligent) and so all their classes are "college prep", even though they contain many kids who cannot afford or handle college. We need more gifted facilities, yes, especially when you compare gifted to handicapped funding, but the middle class (60-70% of the students, if not more) are the ones really left behind.

Click to expand...

I disagree with all of this. I believe a standardized system needs to be set into place and is entirely different from this one and moves at a quicker pace with more information. Furthermore, I believe that it should be integrated into their lives in such a way that it would seem insensible to take a vacation from it.

Vacationing from constructive thought? Honestly.

Eko Ren said:

In my experience in the educational world, base educational curricula give no reason for burning out. School is not difficult. Not in any way. Just as there are students throwing themselves from buildings and seeking therapy, there are also those who entertain recreational drug use and highly active social lives at no expense to their academic achievement.

And then, of course, there are those who graduate with a high school diploma or even a four year degree in two and three years (respectively).

Personally from experience and after reviewing statistics, I am thoroughly convinced that our country's intellectual mediocrity is not the fault of mediocre minds.



I disagree with all of this. I believe a standardized system needs to be set into place and is entirely different from this one and moves at a quicker pace with more information. Furthermore, I believe that it should be integrated into their lives in such a way that it would seem insensible to take a vacation from it.

Vacationing from constructive thought? Honestly.

Click to expand...

There is so much here that indicates that you know extremely little about education, or learning.

Here is just one peak: Standardized Tests...


- Standardized tests evaluating the results of the new social studies courses are open to criticism on the basis of validity, utilization, and restriction of educational change.
- They culturally discriminate against some individuals, predict imperfectly, and are often rigidly interpreted.
- The tests may be assumed to measure innate characteristics and thus may influence teacher expectation regarding student potential.
- They have a harmful effect on the shaping of the student's cognitive style and often are the basis for school organization and curriculum.
- Further, standardized tests distort the individual's privacy in later life. Finally the results of standardized tests, regardless of their inherent weaknesses, are used as a basis for allocation of resources.

The "New" Social Studies and Standardized Testing.


Study Finds Standardized Tests May Hurt Education Efforts

Study Finds Standardized Tests May Hurt Education Efforts - New York Times


students at schools with high-stakes tests are receiving lower scores on other performance tests such as the ACTs, SATs, and Advanced Placement results than in the past.

"Teachers are focusing so intently on the high-stakes tests that they're neglecting other things that are ultimately more important,"

Studies give standardized tests low grades | Group | Find Articles at BNET



As an admissions criterion, HSGPA has less adverse impact than standardized tests on disadvantaged and underrepresented minority students.

CSHE - New Study Looks at High-School Record vs. Standardized Tests as Indicators of Four-Year College Outcomes

I personally would love year-round school. If I could graduate quicker and get through college before I'm 18 that would be amazing.

Criteria that would have to be met: Many short breaks, same length of time for 1 grade.

Radical Ron said:

What if they started at home schooling through the internet to relieve the volume in the schools? That would also make it easier on families.

Click to expand...

If they started doing that absolutely no one would learn anything. See like right now, I'm typing this from multi-media class..nothing gets done when you have a computer in front of you and you're supposed to be doing work :doh

Jared said:

If they started doing that absolutely no one would learn anything. See like right now, I'm typing this from multi-media class..nothing gets done when you have a computer in front of you and you're supposed to be doing work :doh

Click to expand...

Many successful adults were homeschooled as children. They learned something. I suppose someone like you just wouldn't be eligible.

Edify_Always_In_All_Ways said:

Many successful adults were homeschooled as children. They learned something. I suppose someone like you just wouldn't be eligible.

Click to expand...

I thought that he was talking about "Internet Schooling"...
Not "Home Schooling" which is considerably different...