MrVicchio

If I could do one thing, one thing to America this would be it.

Now, while the trolls go off and post their idiocy without reading further lets take a moment, those of you wishing to read what I would do, to remember, keep it civil.

Okay, on with the thread:

1. Take the money each district spends per child now. Say, for argument sakes it's 10k a kid per year (I'm using a made up number shush you) so for each child enrolled, the school would get that much money.

2. Each School would be then given over to a private company.

3. Each School would have to have their curriculum posted on line, and available on request to any parent or potential students guardian.

4. Each School would have to list publicly ALL EXPENSES.

5. Each School would post its student’s grades, test scores and teachers education levels.

6. The markets would determine success and failure. If a school is unpopular, parents won’t send their kids there, no kids means no money.

7. NO BUSINESS running a school would be allowed, in any shape, fashion or form to lobby, gift, or provide money, or resources to political candidates or elected officials. EVER.

8. Schools could teach, whatever they want. It’s the parents decision what their children learn, and it is up to the parents to be informed.

9. Teachers Unions would be abolished and barred except in those states that allow unions by law. (even then I would try to find a way to ban them)

10. Parents would be barred from giving to, or paying schools to let their kids attend.


That’s it in a nutshell. The public school system is disaster, the biggest reason is the lack of competition and adults just handing their kids over to the “schools” to teach them. Make parents get involved!

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Kernel Sanders

So in Detroit, with it's 25% graduation rate (Only 25 % high school graduation rate in Detroit, worst in nation.), where the free market would make running a school inherently unprofitable, what would happen?

Private schools are a good thing and I'm glad they are an option. Education, however, must be provided universally. Universally providing education isn't anywhere near profitable, that's why the government does it.

Korimyr the Rat

Normally, I am the first person to jump into a thread like this and tear the argument to pieces, but I think you've missed an important part of MrVicchio's post. He referred to taking the per student expenses of the public schools and using them to fund the privately-run schools.

In fact, he went so far as to prohibit parents from using their own money to pay for their childrens' educations. I'm actually planning on arguing against that point in my own reply.

I am surprised and impressed. With your thread title I expected the usual diatribe about how poor children don't deserve school. While I think your plan has some kinks in it, it does show proper concern for ensuring the continuing process of education.

Of course, it is still a matter of outsourcing government functions to private businesses, and the fact that it's more profitable to provide a shoddy product than a superior one.

This is approve of. As a matter of fact, I think this would be an excellent reform for our public schools. Governmental transparency has a way of improving the function of every government endeavor.

Which leaves us with the issue of how new schools will be created-- since you've outlawed parents paying for education privately, a new school could not function without government funding. And without a Department of Education, how would new schools be built, either to replace old ones or to fill new demand?

Personally, I'd prefer that this rule applied to all publicly-owned or publicly-traded businesses.

I'd like to see you enforce this, though, unless you did apply it to every other business.

Do professional educators not, then, have the right to free assembly? In your model, people might even realize that the teacher's unions exist for the benefit of the teachers-- as that is their purpose-- and not for the benefit of the students.

Teacher's unions serve the same-- mostly valuable-- purpose as any other professional union, and there is no reason to have them abolished.

I don't think for a second that this plan would make parents any more involved in their childrens' education. They'd just drop them off at the government-funded "private" school that's most convenient for them, just like they do with the public schools.

Your plan has other problems. You mention posting grades and test scores, which is all very well and good, but without the Department of Education, who will judge the grades and the test scores to ensure that they're relevant? Who will make sure that the schools aren't simply making up numbers?

I think you have some very good ideas for reforming the public schools, but I don't see an effective system here that might be used to replace them.

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jfuh

Have any examples of where market education systems actually work?

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Kernel Sanders

That would at best cover costs. Private schools need to turn a profit, and every single private school needs to turn a profit. When only 25% of your students go the distance does that even leave enough cash to pay the electric bill?

jfuh

In their defense however, if it works they wouldn't be only having 25% of the students going the distance.

MrVicchio

Private Schools and Universities.

Ya know, the ones that compete for your kids to attend them?

MrVicchio

More kids might graduate if hey, the schools were worth a damn. Further more in a situation so dire as that exceptions and tweaks can be made to adjust for the situation until it changes.

shuamort

I can see it now, private businesses running education. "Today's dietary lesson is brought to you by the makers of Cheetos™."

The libertarian position on education is the one major sticking point I have that keeps me from joining their ranks. As much as I would like to abolish children's right to be educated, the part of me that thinks that would be past stupid, down the hill from insane, and edging on retarded. The fact is that everyone needs to be educated. Not deserves but NEEDS. With a stress on the word "needs".

MrVicchio

I'm all about bringing the level of education up for all kids, especially the poor. (like me!)
I disagree. Look at Harley Davidson. In the 70's it was owned by the bowling company AMF. The brand almost was destroyed by how crappy and cheap it was. Ever hear of anyone proud of their AMF Harley? It didn't turn around until they went back to spending the money and it's now profitable.

Half the problem with the school system is that you, me and average Joe doesn't realize how much WASTE there is out there.


This is an excellent point. In some cases the cities could work with private enterprise to co-build a school, new schools could get built by those that believe there is a market and could turn a profit. Where there is a profit, there is a way.


Hey, small steps, if I can get it in here... our kids are too valuable to do otherwise.

I disagree, the Teachers Unions are part o the problem today. They are political entities and would fight this program tooth and nail. Voucher Programs are hated by these unions. I am NOT a fan of unions. It would run counter to what the point of this plan is, to reform and open the education system to new and innovative ideas.


To an extent, you are correct, the lacy, the ignorant, and the stupid parents out there would do nothing different. But I don't think you give the "consumers" enough credit. With the Internet and other resources, I think you'd see a positive move towards active parenting again.

Get rid of the federal Department of Education, each State would set it's own standards. I really believe what's good for Virginia, or Texas is not the same as for Floridia or California. Let the people, not Washington make decisions.
I thank you for comments, I disagree that this wouldn't move the system forward, and yes, there are some things that still need be addressed, but this is a framework within which to change the system.