Agnapostate

I suppose you're a "libertarian" capitalist as opposed to a libertarian socialist, because a libertarian socialist would recognize the hideousness of tyranny on all levels, whether governmental or private.

Scucca

Try arguing with my points. You're going to struggle (which of course is why you've just tried to ignore the post with an url)

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kamino

I am a Civil Libritarian with slight Economic leanings to the left. So in a nut shell yes you would be correct about me.

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Arcana XV

Oh, but I am. I read the whole thing earlier, which reminded me yet again why I'm no longer such a strict Libertarian.

I can adress it point by point if you like, but most of it deserves its own thread.

What would be nice is if you would adress my point. How is an undereducated population going to compete in today's increasingly small world? How will it affect illiteracy levels in your country? What will be the impact on the economy and the immigration laws?

Or you can keep pretending that kids have the same capacity to make level-headed, life changing decisions as grown adults do.

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kamino

But please make no mistake; while I would be forcing my children to go to school I would expect them to challenge my authority. While I want them to know the importance of challenging so called authority I also want my children to have the best chances of a successful life, however they may define success, but no government official or party member has ever gained there position with no education. It is important for my children to have an education that they may, if they so choose, be able to further true American ideals of Libritarianism.

Agnapostate

It's amusing that you thought that I would "struggle" with this.

If you were solely concerned with economic benefits, then what is your objection to making post-secondary education mandatory also? It's certainly arguable that we need a population with specialized education also.

As for your claim about youngsters' "underdeveloped mental capacities," has the thought ever occured to you that they could be caused by the mass conformity encouraged by compulsory schooling, rather than alleviated by it? I thought not.

Scucca

But you have...

Tertiary education serves two purposes: human capital investment and screening. The latter tells us how education is used to distinguish between workers. First, we have signalling problems created by asymmetric information (i.e. those with ability need to acquire a relatively scarce certificate to highlight their worth). Second, we have the need for employers to find a mechanism to justify hierarchy (e.g. where workers enter in the 'internal labour market'.

These features ensure that tertiary education stands out such that blanket certification would lead to increased labour market costs. Primary and secondary education is quite distinct: its about increasing the average quality of the worker's human capital. It is vital for understanding economic success.

Myopia is a feature of our bounded rationality. You may want to construct conspiracy theory, but you're only going to make me chuckle. You really shouldn't be so worried about human nature.

Agnapostate

Again...amusing.

While it's true that that's a trait of our current economic system and wider society, as was noted by the position paper that I posted, you are wrong in assuming that it is a socially beneficial aspect of it. There is no legitimate mechanism that can justify hierarchy in an economic system, nor market competitition as a whole, for that matter.

And again, neither form of certification has the slightest effect on the actual production value of the worker. Unfortunately enough, you seem to be quite an adamant supporter of wage labor without sufficiently noting its negative side effects.

Labeling opposing viewpoints "conspiracy theory" is a poor escape mechanism, although it is understandable that one who lacked superior arguments would resort to it. My primary objection was that the school system had been specifically designed to create the exact sort of mass conformity that was a staple of Prussian society that later made it vulnerable to the trappings of National Socialism.

Your view of "human nature" is evidently in need of some modification.

Scucca

You're going to have to end capitalism then (get waving your little red flag!). Hierarchy is required for profit maximisation and tertiary education is the cheapest means to support it.

That primary and secondary education provide basic skills that then increase the productivity of the workforce cannot be denied. I know its inconvenient for your rights rant, but the nature of the economic benefits are immense. Indeed, its very difficult to refer to a country's economic failures without referring to its education system (e.g. to remove a long tail of low skills, features such as the benefits of comprehensive education have to be considered)

You gave the standard conspiracy theory guff because you have no counterargument to the consequences of bounded rationality. Myopia, for instance, is a basic requirement in modeling of youth behaviour (such as the modeling of addictive substance consumption and the failure of standard information systems to ensure rational behaviour).

Goldenboy219

I think Agnapostate is referring to Prussian originated compulsory education to be obsolete in an age where anonymous communication is available to all. This web site is a good example of it, because this very concept is being employed in many colleges and universities. In terms of distance education, message boards have given it a leap forward so to say.

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