How do we fix education in this country? - Page 2

UtahBill · 05-25-08, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

My credentials are similar to yours but it isn't about you and me. Try to concentrate on the issue and drop the ad hom approach.

Really? The issue is how to fix education, yet some here just want to find excuses to attack teaching. Your responses are more than a bit lame, so I doubt your education and experience is anywhere near comparable to mine. If it is, then certainly your intellect is suffering compared to most here.
How will burning a school to the ground solve anything? Where will you get a whole new group of teachers with a new attitude? What specifically is causing you to be such a whiner about the teaching profession?
What REALISTIC solutions do you have to offer?

Layla_Z · 05-25-08, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryandre

We need to give choice back to the parents, right now teachers unions want no competition and you paying taxes for it which allows them to teach at sub par levels, create school vouchers giving parents the choice of school which equal more competition for public schools. Also get rid of the department of education no where in the constitution does it the word "education" come up, bring it back to the state and local level, the more money we put into education the worse it gets,In 2000 the DoE budget was $33 billion, currently it is $64 billion, has it improved at all? Not in my eyes. It's our responsibility to determine what is best for our kids, not the federal government.

Vouchers are not the answer. Vouchers would not help all students. Some families are so poor that they couldn't afford a private school even with a voucher. Also, private schools have the luxury to reject students(this is why their scores can be higher). So if there were a voucher program you would have a failing public school with only the poorest and most troubled students left. This school now gets less money because schools get money according to how many students they have. We need to fix the public school. The answer is not always more money, but when you have kids attending in a building that should be condemned and using textbooks that still talk about the USSR money would help. When one teacher is trying to teach 30 kids and 5 of those have behavior disorders, 5 have learninging disabilities, and the rest don't care, smaller class sizes would help - and that means money. When the school has to chose between a metal detector or a new teacher - money would help.

I'm also really tired of hearing how everything is the union's fault. I'm not in a teacher's union and I don't know any teacher who is. The NEA doesn't speak for all teachers.

aegyptos · 05-25-08, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahBill

Really? The issue is how to fix education,...

I made a post discussing how I'd like to change the school system. You have chosen to make ad hominem attacks on me instead of addressing the issue or making recommendations of your own.

If don't wish to discuss the issue get out of the thread or, if necessary, start an I hate aegyptos thread in the basement. I think it was designed for purposes like that.

SouthernDemocrat · 05-25-08, 11:07 AM

The far right talks about public schools as if everyone of them is a miserable failure. This stems from their religious like devotion to all things private sector, and complete aversion to anything public. The problem is its not true at all. Many public school systems can and do excel. For example, the public school district our kids are in had:

37 National Merit Semi-finalists in 2008

Nearly $35 million in scholarship offers in 2007

133 students named Advanced Placement Scholars for receiving
a score of 3 or above on an Advanced Placement test in 2006

One student earned a perfect score on the ACT and SAT in 2007

Gold medal rating from Expansion Management Magazine putting
district in top four percent of school districts in the nation.

The public school district next door to ours had:

ACT composite average score: 24.1 (2007)
SAT composite average score: 1734 (2007)
The district is among the top two percent of public school districts nationwide, according to Expansion Management magazine.
Nearly every Blue Valley student scored at proficient or above in reading and math on the Kansas State Assessments. On the Kansas Math Assessment, nearly 94 percent of Blue Valley students met standards or better, and nearly 95 percent met standards or better on the Kansas Reading Assessment.
All four high schools were named to Newsweek’s “1,300 Top U.S. Schools” list.
29 students were named National Merit scholarship finalists (2007).
The prestigious Blue Ribbon distinction from the U.S. Department of Education has been awarded 14 times to district schools for their outstanding educational programs.
Blue Valley teachers have earned the Kansas Master Teacher Award 13 times.
181 students were named Kansas Designated Scholars.
2007 graduates were offered more than $27.8 million in grants, scholarships and awards.
Blue Valley’s graduation rate is 98 percent.
Approximately 92 percent of Blue Valley graduates pursue a post-secondary education.

Private schools would kill for numbers like that and unlike public schools they get to pick and choose their students. The secret to those two districts success is simple: Parents that are highly involved in their kids education and well funded schools. Thats it, and vouchers nor any of the right wing schemes are a substitute for either of those. The problem in failing schools is almost universally the parents fault. Vouchers don't fix worthless parents. Thats a problem that has to be tackled at the society level. The poor performing districts their kids go to are a symptom of the problem, not the cause.

aegyptos · 05-25-08, 11:22 AM

Teachers blame parents and parents blame teachers. Its the system that is broken. Somewhere in the 1960-70s the system changed for the worse. It used to work.

SouthernDemocrat · 05-25-08, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Teachers blame parents and parents blame teachers. Its the system that is broken. Somewhere in the 1960-70s the system changed for the worse. It used to work.

I think the only major change in that time period would have been integration.

aegyptos · 05-25-08, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat

I think the only major change in that time period would have been integration.

I think there was a change in the way teachers are prepared and in the ideas that were put into teacher candidates head's that led to the poor results we have been experiencing.

UtahBill · 05-25-08, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

I made a post discussing how I'd like to change the school system. You have chosen to make ad hominem attacks on me instead of addressing the issue or making recommendations of your own.

If don't wish to discuss the issue get out of the thread or, if necessary, start an I hate aegyptos thread in the basement. I think it was designed for purposes like that.

Your post was not about change but destruction. Show us some rational points....

SouthernDemocrat · 05-25-08, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

I think there was a change in the way teachers are prepared and in the ideas that were put into teacher candidates head's that led to the poor results we have been experiencing.

Nope, it was integration. Its not like teachers were all of a sudden wired up differently. What happened then is that impoverished districts no longer were segregated, and thus the problems we had ignored all the way up until the 60s and 70s suddenly became apparent.

aegyptos · 05-25-08, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat

Nope, it was integration.

No that's not it although busing and related factors did not help public schools achieve their primary mission of basic education. I think the downfall is related to the mindset of the teaching establishment.