No, really? Schoolwork, advocacy place strain on student activists

nota bene said:

Responsibilities? If there are competing responsibilities, students must learn how to manage them. This is a choice. Make it, and live with it.

For a time I was a student activist too, and my grades did suffer. But asking for what we now call “accommodations” never even occurred to me. I knew I was blowing off my classes, and I made that choice, which was to have a lousy and well-earned undergrad GPA.

I ddn’t care then and don’t care now. I really do remain satisfied with my decision; what I was doing was important. What a buncha whiners these kids are.

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Agreed.

If they want the degree, they need to do the work. Period.

HowardBThiname said:

Agreed.

If they want the degree, they need to do the work. Period.

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Or accept the consequences of their choices. I did, and as I've said, I remain satisfied. But it did mean a lousy GPA.

CaptainCourtesy said:

I just see these kids as spoiled brats who need to accept the consequences of their decisions. If that activist work is that important to them, and they have a presentation deadline, ACCEPT THE LOWER GRADE or miss the activist meeting. Life is a series of choices like that.

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What I see is too many kids who've been brought up to think that nothing is ever their fault. Life really is a series of choices...and also learning to live with the consequences of them. You can't excuse away every consequence.

nota bene said:

Brown University activists’ grades are suffering because of their activist “responsibilities.” From the student newspaper, the Daily Herald:

When faced with the decision of completing activist work or studying for an exam, students sometimes feel obligated to choose the former, said Liliana Sampedro ’18. This choice, often made by students advocating for increased diversity on campus, “has systemic effects on students of color,” she added.

Sampedro worked alongside the group that presented the demands for the diversity and inclusion action plan’s revision. It was a Thursday, she recalled, and she had a research presentation that needed to be completed that week. “I remember emailing the professor and begging her to put things off another week,” she said. The professor denied her request.
Schoolwork, advocacy place strain on student activists

The article’s subhead is “Students struggle with mental health, academic pressures as they act on social justice responsibilities.”

Responsibilities? If there are competing responsibilities, students must learn how to manage them. This is a choice. Make it, and live with it.

For a time I was a student activist too, and my grades did suffer. But asking for what we now call “accommodations” never even occurred to me. I knew I was blowing off my classes, and I made that choice, which was to have a lousy and well-earned undergrad GPA.

I ddn’t care then and don’t care now. I really do remain satisfied with my decision; what I was doing was important. What a buncha whiners these kids are.

Liberal Activism Is Giving Students Panic Attacks, Depression, Failing Grades - Hit & Run : Reason.com

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Makes you wonder what sort of a value system is being imparted to these young adults.

I think it most appropriate that the prof. denied the delay she requested.

I find the OP humerous.

ludin said:

the bosses and employers won't care. you want to do it fine but you still better get your work done on time.
if not see you later there is the door.

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First of all let me get it out there that for the most part I think these SJW's politics suck. They're far, far, far too liberal/progressive for my blood. So I'm not defending them because I agree with the things they're doing so much as because I agree with the fact that they're doing something, anything, other than just going to class, joining a frat, and getting drunk and chasing tail.

Anyhow...

College isn't a job and it isn't the "real world".

When you're working a job your boss pays you to show up and get it done.

If you don't do the things you're being paid to do then of course your boss is eventually going to have to replace you.

When you go to college you're a customer, not an employee, and you pay the university to provide an experience.

The educational experience a student receives is paramount, of course, but it's also a social, and cultural, and exploratory, and acculturative experience.

Lots of people don't really know what they want to do "with the rest of their lives" when they start college and being at school, and being exposed to a wide array of activities, often times helps them decide.

I'd absolutely agree that at some point an instructor or an administrator has to draw a line in the sane and say, "We're willing to accommodate your extracurricular activities "this" much, but once you cross "that" line right there your grades are going to suffer".

Maybe the answer is for colleges to offer a "Social Justice Warrior Practicum" and give these kids credit for the hard work they're putting in to their activism.

eohrnberger said:

Makes you wonder what sort of a value system is being imparted to these young adults.

I think it most appropriate that the prof. denied the delay she requested.

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ol I am sure that student complained and threw a fit over that as well.
the teacher shouldn't have extended the paper.

in lieu of some family or medical emergency you spending more time protesting or whatever than doing your work is not a valid excuse.

soot said:

First of all let me get it out there that for the most part I think these SJW's politics suck. They're far, far, far too liberal/progressive for my blood. So I'm not defending them because I agree with the things they're doing so much as because I agree with the fact that they're doing something, anything, other than just going to class, joining a frat, and getting drunk and chasing tail.

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What they are doing is in addition to all of that hence why they don't have time to finish their work. their priorities are in the wrong place.

College isn't a job and it isn't the "real world".

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yet it impacts your professional career if you goof off.

When you're working a job your boss pays you to show up and get it done.
If you don't do the things you're being paid to do then of course your boss is eventually going to have to replace you.

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In college you either show up and do the work or you fail which it appears these kids are doing.

When you go to college you're a customer, not an employee, and you pay the university to provide an experience.

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yet you can get kicked out for not performing odd how that works. no you supposedly pay the college for an education.

The educational experience a student receives is paramount, of course, but it's also a social, and cultural, and exploratory, and acculturative experience.

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you can experiment all you want these kids are failing classes.

Lots of people don't really know what they want to do "with the rest of their lives" when they start college and being at school, and being exposed to a wide array of activities, often times helps them decide.

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at 65k dollars a year you better know what you want to do with your life.

I'd absolutely agree that at some point an instructor or an administrator has to draw a line in the sane and say, "We're willing to accommodate your extracurricular activities "this" much, but once you cross "that" line right there your grades are going to suffer".

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they did draw the line. you have 2 weeks to get this assignment turned in. if you don't then you will get a grade reduction off the bat.
that is the line. if you want to spend a week and a half protesting cool. nothing is stopping you but don't come crying to me that you didn't
have enough time.

Maybe the answer is for colleges to offer a "Social Justice Warrior Practicum" and give these kids credit for the hard work they're putting in to their activism.

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lol so give them a grade for not doing their work? where do you people come up with this stuff from.

FieldTheorist said:

1.) Almost all universities receive private money through the government, at minimum through grants. You would know this if you had any clue what you were talking about.

2.) Instructors are the arbiters for extensions and grading, unless a dean (or equivalent) is asked to appeal a decision made by an instructor. This is typically only requested in cases where a professor may have an alleged bias against a student or a university group, e.g. a sports team, needs a carte blanche extension to attend an outside event. You would know this if you had any clue what you were talking about.



Best of luck to you. I'm sure that a university administration would seriously sit down and make sure to censure an instructor for allowing students an extra day to complete an assignment so they could attend a political event; that's obviously what the censuring process was designed for.

It's always amazing listening to people who have no idea what they're talking about, but demanding that their opinions should be taken seriously.

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I'm not impressed by pseudo-intellectuals trolling blogs. I've offered my opinion on the matter. To coin your phrase, "if you knew what you were talking about", you'd understand that is all that occurred.

My point was very clear. If a university receives no taxpayer support, have the kids do each other in the classroom for all I care. Suckle on the taxpayer teat, and that changes the game.

The self centered, elitist attitude displayed by many "teachers" on college campuses these days disgusts me. The massive crime of monetary debt that educators of higher learning enthusiastically enslave students with disgusts me. The encouragement to waste time in these propaganda driven causes, while gladly taking their money, disgusts me.

The tuition students pay, and for that matter, the tax money citizens supplement the school with, is meant to purchase and provide a certain number of hours of education. Encouraging this BS, in fact, tolerating it, accomplishes nothing but to distract, and side track from the primary mission. That is a vile and disgusting effort.

If educators had a clue what they were doing and talking about, perhaps the crisis in learning wouldn't be so critical.

FieldTheorist said:

1.) Almost all universities receive private money through the government, at minimum through grants. You would know this if you had any clue what you were talking about.

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I do have that proverbial clue. I laughed at “private money through the government” because this is a contradiction in terms.

FieldTheorist said:

2.) Instructors are the arbiters for extensions and grading, unless a dean (or equivalent) is asked to appeal a decision made by an instructor. This is typically only requested in cases where a professor may have an alleged bias against a student or a university group, e.g. a sports team, needs a carte blanche extension to attend an outside event. You would know this if you had any clue what you were talking about.

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No need to be snide. Instructors may well be the “arbiters for extensions and grading,” but it’s also true that most departments have grading standards and actual definitions of grades. In my state every syllabus for every course offered by a state institution must be uploaded to a database that is available to anybody with access to the Internet. There are general parameters for grades, and in this era of nearly continual student complaints, department heads and deans are going to know if Professor X doesn’t hew to the established and expected standard. And this standard is always under assault; hence the term “grade inflation.”

Any institution with an attendance policy is going to spell out in the student and faculty handbooks what acceptable absences are, and these generally cover school-sponsored activities such as field trips and sporting events. At the beginnings of semesters, students generally make profs aware of their various situations, including Guard duty, and the profs are provided in advance with documentation. I haven’t read yet of activist students providing documentation from a legitimate source that would excuse them from taking exams/projects/research papers scheduled all semester long. Sure, emergencies such as family crises come up, and profs who aren’t total hardasses generally will work with students.

FieldTheorist said:

Best of luck to you. I'm sure that a university administration would seriously sit down and make sure to censure an instructor for allowing students an extra day to complete an assignment so they could attend a political event; that's obviously what the censuring process was designed for.

It's always amazing listening to people who have no idea what they're talking about, but demanding that their opinions should be taken seriously.

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It’s always amazing to me how a little bit of knowledge or experience can so easily be inflated into an expertise that has not yet been acquired. But since you assume that you have a clue that others don’t, please feel free to educate me. Just know that I’ve been a member of the Academy for decades.

nota bene said:

I haven’t read yet of activist students providing documentation from a legitimate source that would excuse them from taking exams/projects/research papers scheduled all semester long.

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That includes this thread, too, because that doesn't bare any resemblance to what I said I would allow.

It’s always amazing to me how a little bit of knowledge or experience can so easily be inflated into an expertise that has not yet been acquired. But since you assume that you have a clue that others don’t, please feel free to educate me. Just know that I’ve been a member of the Academy for decades.

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Firstly, I'm not really certain why you felt it was appropriate to take a such a smug and condescending tone with me, or why you thought it would behoove your case to be openly dismissive of someone who you've literally never met before and literally know nothing about.

Secondly, I neither educated you nor asked to educate you. Nor, particularly after the little tirade above, do I have any interest in having a conversation with you. When you can't even be bothered to verify what the other person said and have no interest in clarifying what was meant, and instead immediately resort to impugning the other person, then you don't merit my consideration or my time.

nota bene said:

What I see is too many kids who've been brought up to think that nothing is ever their fault. Life really is a series of choices...and also learning to live with the consequences of them. You can't excuse away every consequence.

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Agree 100%

FieldTheorist said:

That includes this thread, too, because that doesn't bare any resemblance to what I said I would allow.


Firstly, I'm not really certain why you felt it was appropriate to take a such a smug and condescending tone with me, or why you thought it would behoove your case to be openly dismissive of someone who you've literally never met before and literally know nothing about.

Secondly, I neither educated you nor asked to educate you. Nor, particularly after the little tirade above, do I have any interest in having a conversation with you. When you can't even be bothered to verify what the other person said and have no interest in clarifying what was meant, and instead immediately resort to impugning the other person, then you don't merit my consideration or my time.

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I'm not surprised that you would read "smug and condescending" into my post; that's called "projection." When you repeatedly tell others that they don't have a clue, which I thought was both smug and condescending, you should expect those who actually do have a clue and many years more experience than you do to speak up.

nota bene said:

I'm not surprised that you would read "smug and condescending" into my post; that's called "projection." When you repeatedly tell others that they don't have a clue, which I thought was both smug and condescending, you should expect those who actually do have a clue and many years more experience than you do to speak up.

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It's pretty spectacular that in a post where you're accusing me of falsely reading smuggness and condescension into your post, you still can't even be bothered to contain your condescension and smuggness, and feel the need to reiterate to a person you've never met that you still know better than they do. You could have noted, pun intended, that I remained very polite with people on this thread until their complete lack of seriousness lead to me taking my own condescending tone.

So let me take a moment to educate you, NB, on what I actually said, and clarify what I meant since it's transparently clear that you can't be bothered to ask a fellow professional (however younger they are than you) what they specifically meant by what they said, before you read in your own spurious assumptions. So let's quote what I actually said:


Again, you could have asked me what I meant by this, but that was apparently beneath you and so you didn't. Instead, you felt the need to accuse and lecture me. Now here's the list of things that you accused me of saying or felt the need to lecture me on:


We aren't talking about grading rubrics or standards right now, so why did you feel that this was relevant?


And? Most universities I know, particularly for lower level courses, this is true. In either case, most universities require an official course description and grading scheme. How is this relevant to a professors judgment for allowing an extension? The professor, in general, chooses the grading scheme for their courses (Yes, sometimes with department input, sometimes with no department input). A professor could literally just institute a policy, if they wanted, that allowed a student to be one day late on a single assignment. This is perfectly allowed. You know this; I know this.


This is so utterly removed from even attempting to be a response to anything I said, it's difficult to even form a response other than "Yes, obviously, NB. Are you so arrogant you think I don't know this?"


I clarified this long before you did.


This is the most blatantly dishonest thing that you say, and it's the epitome of you not caring at any level about what I said. You could only say this if you had absolute disregard for the principle of charity, debating etiquette, or any concern whatsoever in whether or not you were committing a strawman fallacy and butchering your oppositions claims to fit your own narrative.


NB, where did I say that I would allow students to skip exams, projects, and research papers? Do I need to explain to you the difference between a one-day extension on an out-of-class assignment and skipping assignments or missing exams/class participation altogether? I really shouldn't have to. Do I also need to explain the difference between allowing a student to do something once and "excuse them from taking exams/projects/research papers scheduled all semester long"? I really shouldn't have to explain that to you, either.

So yes, NB, we're done here. You so very clearly have no interest in an honest discussion.

FieldTheorist said:

It's pretty spectacular that in a post where you're accusing me of falsely reading smuggness and condescension into your post, you still can't even be bothered to contain your condescension and smuggness, and feel the need to reiterate to a person you've never met that you still know better than they do. You could have noted, pun intended, that I remained very polite with people on this thread until their complete lack of seriousness lead to me taking my own condescending tone.

So let me take a moment to educate you, NB, on what I actually said, and clarify what I meant since it's transparently clear that you can't be bothered to ask a fellow professional (however younger they are than you) what they specifically meant by what they said, before you read in your own spurious assumptions. So let's quote what I actually said:

"Honestly, I would give any student who asked for it an extension if they were getting politically involved, so long as they could prove that they were involved in the activism. (Within reason, mind you.) But I accommodate students in general, so long as they give a proper heads up and show that they are attempting to organize their time."​

Again, you could have asked me what I meant by this, but that was apparently beneath you and so you didn't. Instead, you felt the need to accuse and lecture me. Now here's the list of things that you accused me of saying or felt the need to lecture me on:

"Instructors may well be the “arbiters for extensions and grading,” but it’s also true that most departments have grading standards and actual definitions of grades."​

We aren't talking about grading rubrics or standards right now, so why did you feel that this was relevant?

"In my state every syllabus for every course offered by a state institution must be uploaded to a database that is available to anybody with access to the Internet."​

And? Most universities I know, particularly for lower level courses, this is true. In either case, most universities require an official course description and grading scheme. How is this relevant to a professors judgment for allowing an extension? The professor, in general, chooses the grading scheme for their courses (Yes, sometimes with department input, sometimes with no department input). A professor could literally just institute a policy, if they wanted, that allowed a student to be one day late on a single assignment. This is perfectly allowed. You know this; I know this.

"There are general parameters for grades, and in this era of nearly continual student complaints, department heads and deans are going to know if Professor X doesn’t hew to the established and expected standard."​

This is so utterly removed from even attempting to be a response to anything I said, it's difficult to even form a response other than "Yes, obviously, NB. Are you so arrogant you think I don't know this?"

"Any institution with an attendance policy is going to spell out in the student and faculty handbooks what acceptable absences are, and these generally cover school-sponsored activities such as field trips and sporting events."​

I clarified this long before you did.

"I haven’t read yet of activist students providing documentation from a legitimate source that would excuse them from taking exams/projects/research papers scheduled all semester long."​

This is the most blatantly dishonest thing that you say, and it's the epitome of you not caring at any level about what I said. You could only say this if you had absolute disregard for the principle of charity, debating etiquette, or any concern whatsoever in whether or not you were committing a strawman fallacy and butchering your oppositions claims to fit your own narrative.


NB, where did I say that I would allow students to skip exams, projects, and research papers? Do I need to explain to you the difference between a one-day extension on an out-of-class assignment and skipping assignments or missing exams/class participation altogether? I really shouldn't have to. Do I also need to explain the difference between allowing a student to do something once and "excuse them from taking exams/projects/research papers scheduled all semester long"? I really shouldn't have to explain that to you, either.

So yes, NB, we're done here.

You so very clearly have no interest in an honest discussion.

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Weird. You have been the dismissive poster here. That is, up to the point where you were called on it, which unsurprisingly you now claim has wounded you and damaged "honest" discussion for you, and irretrievably so. This is somewhat humorous.

nota bene said:

Brown University activists’ grades are suffering because of their activist “responsibilities.” From the student newspaper, the Daily Herald:

When faced with the decision of completing activist work or studying for an exam, students sometimes feel obligated to choose the former, said Liliana Sampedro ’18. This choice, often made by students advocating for increased diversity on campus, “has systemic effects on students of color,” she added.

Sampedro worked alongside the group that presented the demands for the diversity and inclusion action plan’s revision. It was a Thursday, she recalled, and she had a research presentation that needed to be completed that week. “I remember emailing the professor and begging her to put things off another week,” she said. The professor denied her request.
Schoolwork, advocacy place strain on student activists

The article’s subhead is “Students struggle with mental health, academic pressures as they act on social justice responsibilities.”

Responsibilities? If there are competing responsibilities, students must learn how to manage them. This is a choice. Make it, and live with it.

For a time I was a student activist too, and my grades did suffer. But asking for what we now call “accommodations” never even occurred to me. I knew I was blowing off my classes, and I made that choice, which was to have a lousy and well-earned undergrad GPA.

I ddn’t care then and don’t care now. I really do remain satisfied with my decision; what I was doing was important. What a buncha whiners these kids are.

Liberal Activism Is Giving Students Panic Attacks, Depression, Failing Grades - Hit & Run : Reason.com

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Apparently, "adulting" is too hard.

ludin said:

from what I have read 65k a year or so.
yep according to their website 65k a year not including books.

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Next step: Demand student loan forgiveness because they didn't get what they paid for.

seems to me what they're doing is like striking but only going half way. When you strike, you're sending a message the status quo is unacceptable and you're unwilling to continue. The real activists in turbulent on college campuses did this. They flat out didn't go to class, occupied buildings, and said to hell with it all. Instead, these whiny "activists" want to have it both ways, because they know their 'cause' is outweighed by what they have to gain by falling in line

I mean yeah, 4% black students isn't much, but when all you're willing to do is whine about it, don't expect it to change

joG said:

If the gal wants to waste 65k on responsibility, I guess that is probably between her and her parents. And anyway, I ones saw a study on income development for graduates of the 1968 period and the finding seemed to be that the politically active ones fared better than most of the other groups. Interesting, I thought at the time I read it.

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if she's poor and black, she's probably paying nothing. The parents of the 1% there and wealthy donors subsidize her, and odds are she got in thru racial quotas. She comes across as extremely ungrateful

chromium said:

if she's poor and black, she's probably paying nothing. The parents of the 1% there and wealthy donors subsidize her, and odds are she got in thru racial quotas. She comes across as extremely ungrateful

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If she is paying nothing she must be there on merits. She will lose those, if she does not work hard.

joG said:

If she is paying nothing she must be there on merits. She will lose those, if she does not work hard.

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nah ivys give generous need-based financial aid. Some of them have a 'no loans' policy. People don't understand this is partly why the price tag is so high

They don't give any merit scholarships, because they have so many extremely wealthy who don't need it.

chromium said:

nah ivys give generous need-based financial aid. Some of them have a 'no loans' policy. People don't understand this is partly why the price tag is so high

They don't give any merit scholarships, because they have so many extremely wealthy who don't need it.

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Merit is a good base, because it lifts the level.

chromium said:

seems to me what they're doing is like striking but only going half way. When you strike, you're sending a message the status quo is unacceptable and you're unwilling to continue. The real activists in turbulent on college campuses did this. They flat out didn't go to class, occupied buildings, and said to hell with it all. Instead, these whiny "activists" want to have it both ways, because they know their 'cause' is outweighed by what they have to gain by falling in line.

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That's exactly right: They want to have it both ways.