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The dramatic shift among college professors that’s hurting students’ education

I don't think it can be "fixed" as much as it may just be part of a cycle in that as more and more liberals are promoted into senior positions within academia they tend to hire, promote, and support the advancement of like minded people and like minded thinking.

The problem I see here is the lack of a counter view in academia at the time of a young person's life where we want them getting as much information as possible from differing view points to allow them to make informed decisions about their future and the future of our country. The term "indoctrination" is over used, but in this instance it is apt to say that our young people are in fact being indoctrinated.

Differing views breeds debate which gives birth to learning. Being exposed to only one viewpoint is indoctrination, not education.

Affirmative action is needed. Make it a quota, there has to be 50% declared conservatives on the faculty.
I mean, everyone knows that liberals don't have filters and don't know what's appropriate in the classroom.

But hey, given the cynical and rebellious nature of university-aged students, maybe liberal teachers are producing conservative graduates.
 
No its because academia never has to deal with the real world.

In some ways I thought this was a benefit, and plenty of others a curse.

There was a historian at my university that I admired that studied events from nearly a millennia ago to maybe the middle of the modern era (early post-enlightenment thought being beyond his emphasis). Occasionally he would make references to contemporary thought or experiences and would say things like, "see, I hold little interest in what's going on now." Elections, primary debates...it's all noise to him-the guy that still holds an affinity for the longue duree.Papal decrees from several centuries ago, the persistence of folk remedies in medieval Europe....that's what he cared about.

I loved that sort of distance, if even for a short time (because I'm an Americanist that's very contemporary and political for the historian crowd).

But you know, there's too much that the university has to deal with in terms of figuring out what its wisdom is, if any. Professors don't have much of an impulse on the current economic environment their students are heading into (even if it is about hiring for the academy). They don't have connections to it, they don't really know how to do it either (and neither do career service departments in the colleges).

There's kind of a passing recognition that that needs to change to some extent, but they don't know how much nor how to do it. It's just kind of languishing while the student body is getting desperate for an edge once they leave the auspices of university.
 
In some ways I thought this was a benefit, and plenty of others a curse.

There was a historian at my university that I admired that studied events from nearly a millennia ago to maybe the middle of the modern era (early post-enlightenment thought being beyond his emphasis). Occasionally he would make references to contemporary thought or experiences and would say things like, "see, I hold little interest in what's going on now." Elections, primary debates...it's all noise to him-the guy that still holds an affinity for the longue duree.Papal decrees from several centuries ago, the persistence of folk remedies in medieval Europe....that's what he cared about.

I loved that sort of distance, if even for a short time (because I'm an Americanist that's very contemporary and political for the historian crowd).

But you know, there's too much that the university has to deal with in terms of figuring out what its wisdom is, if any. Professors don't have much of an impulse on the current economic environment their students are heading into (even if it is about hiring for the academy). They don't have connections to it, they don't really know how to do it either (and neither do career service departments in the colleges).

There's kind of a passing recognition that that needs to change to some extent, but they don't know how much nor how to do it. It's just kind of languishing while the student body is getting desperate for an edge once they leave the auspices of university.



I meant that very tongue in cheek. Frankly I derive some income out of academia at present as a lecturer on applied journalism ethics. My experience with the student body is there are two types, those who want the piece of paper and get on with it, and some serious thinkers leading to questions you have to ponder before answering. That I find a delight, it keeps this old brain of mine alive.

Ironically, history was my best subject. And I still maintain you don't dare venture into today's world without knowing how we got to where we are socially, economically and politically. I respect those who like to go deep on a single subject, we need them as the answers are always in the minutae. As the song says "boy, we're going to carry that weight a long time..." as in we keep making the same mistakes over and over.
 
In regard to #2:

Yes, they should. However, a number of schools more or less require them to take one course on teaching-often housed inside their own department, rather than in collaboration with the teacher colleges.

If you’re talking about graduate training, I can agree in part. I’ll be honest; I don’t know how much Bloom’s Taxonomy-ish stuff I could take. I don’t know at all about grad students in virtually every department taking multiple education classes.

When I was a grad student TA (back when pterodactyls flew the skies), we had to take a two-semester departmental class our first year during which we learned to calibrate grades and deal with various pedagogical and behavioral issues that came up, and that was really enough. You’ve got to get out there and do it to learn.

While every program has an abundance of courses prospective professors must take, and time is a costly premium, I would like to think that this continues to privilege research rather than pedagogy. That's something I can understand. I mostly prefer a gifted scholar then moving toward teaching, rather than the other way around. The consequence of this, however, is that they will continue to be weak in teaching, unless otherwise incentivized to grow as a pedagogue.

Regents and legislatures just love to hear about teaching excellence awards, but the truth remains that research and publishing--gaining the attention and respect of one's peers and securing funding--remains the priority. Some institutions, BTW, do strongly encourage their faculty, and especially their Nobel and NSA and Fullbright winners, to teach an intro course just to keep their hand in, and I think this is very wise.

I'll take another example to kind of make my point. In the teacher education programs, there's a set course load prospective teachers take. Out of all the pedagogy (including theory) these pupils receive, they will typically be only required to take one course on students with disabilities. Given that at least 10% of the student body have disabilities of some sort, and in each of their classrooms there will be a few under this demographic, they only get one course.

So this would have to be a damn good course, right? Well not really. They typically are a poor man's version of an Abnormal Psych course, without the benefits of a psychology-oriented professor. That means you might get to know about disability diagnosis categories (even though it's in the book, they aren't particularly worried "that you get it"), but they aren't going to help you figure out what are some damn good orientations and strategies for teaching students with different needs. So you kind of get a lackluster orientation toward a sub field of psychology and you don't get any practical employment of what may or may not have been discussed in class.

But you’re forgetting all the in-house training and webinars and conferences and newsletters in which accommodations and classroom management and etc. are addressed. And colleges and universities have disability offices that serve to meet special needs and issue written accommodations which professors must sign.

Granted, much of a teacher program's internal course loads consist of poor derivatives that can be found elsewhere (including teacher technology courses), but that's for another time.

So what happens is that these new (or even master's students) teachers end up having little to no clue how to actually prepare themselves for a classroom environment that *will* happen in every year they teach.

So what do we expect will happen when they are in the classrooms teaching? You guessed it. "Over their heads."

Again, the only way to learn how to do it is, in my opinion, to do it.

If we are to revitalize higher education's act of teaching and mentoring young (and old) minds for their future, we need to give more thought to preparing them to do so.

But right now, we are rightly concerned about their work as scholars. That realm has much need for reform as well, but it is often a (or the) central component to their jobs. Achieving balance will need to be thought out in the (likely) decades ahead.

For some scholars teaching is an onerous responsibility simply because it's a drain on their time (depending, of course, on the field and whether the prof has grad-student graders). They aren't going to achieve tenure through teaching. These days those who are interested in improving their classroom performance do have many opportunities to do so and gain professional development credits for doing so. (I'd like to say something here about the continual technology training, but you're right; this is a topic for another thread.)
 
Not all conservatives are "hide-bound, closed-minded, authoritarians," but the more important issue is using one's classroom, irrespective of political lean, is using one's lectern as a bully-pulpit.

I concur... but don't let him get to ya, he's not opposed to " hide-bound, close-minded , authoritarians"... he just prefers them to have a left lean.

but as you say, the most important aspect is using their lectern as bully pulpit for their personal politics... no one, regardless of political stripe, should condone such things.... and it's sad to see that folks actually do.
 
No its because academia never has to deal with the real world.

I think you know MUCH better than that.

That's what I refer to as a 'throwaway' response, one that you know is wrong, that isn't worth the pixels on the screen, but you're using it just to save face, as if it somehow shows that you didn't somehow 'knuckle under'.

Sorta reminds of when a guy get his face punched and then claims that he was using his face to beat up the other guy's fist.
 
I like what happened at Oklahoma Wesleyan University when a student felt "uncomfortable" about a lecture and asked for the establishment of a safe room where he could cry and suck his thumb.

They put right on their website HOME page, a nice answer....

"This is not a day care, this is a University".
 
In some ways I thought this was a benefit, and plenty of others a curse.

There was a historian at my university that I admired that studied events from nearly a millennia ago to maybe the middle of the modern era (early post-enlightenment thought being beyond his emphasis). Occasionally he would make references to contemporary thought or experiences and would say things like, "see, I hold little interest in what's going on now." Elections, primary debates...it's all noise to him-the guy that still holds an affinity for the longue duree.Papal decrees from several centuries ago, the persistence of folk remedies in medieval Europe....that's what he cared about.

I loved that sort of distance, if even for a short time (because I'm an Americanist that's very contemporary and political for the historian crowd).

But you know, there's too much that the university has to deal with in terms of figuring out what its wisdom is, if any. Professors don't have much of an impulse on the current economic environment their students are heading into (even if it is about hiring for the academy). They don't have connections to it, they don't really know how to do it either (and neither do career service departments in the colleges).

There's kind of a passing recognition that that needs to change to some extent, but they don't know how much nor how to do it. It's just kind of languishing while the student body is getting desperate for an edge once they leave the auspices of university.

When I taught college, I had a bumper sticker in my window that said, " I will live in the 60's till something better comes along ".

Fortunate for my student, I taught Electronics and Process Technology. A hard core skill.

I got into daily fights with mathematics professors because my students would come to me for help rather than them.

This is understood if you have ever tried to learn anything from a Mathematics ONLY professor. They usually teach way over the student's head to prove how superior they are because most Mathematics professors wanted to do something else and failed at it, so now they are teaching Math to pay the bills.

CASE IN POINT: The simple two men digging a ditch word problem. I have yet to have a Math professor tell them the easy way to solve it.

Digger A dig a hole in 3 hours, digger B digs the same hole in 5 hours. How long would it take them BOTH to dig a hole working together.

The simple answer is (A times B) divided by ( A plus B). Works every time, and you have a pretty confident answer if your answer is LESS THAN the shortest time.

So as long as your answer is less than 3, you can be pretty confident you have the right answer.
On a multiple choice test you just look for a selection that is less than 3.
If there is only 1 selection, pick it, and go on to the next question without doing any math at all.
 
I think you know MUCH better than that.

That's what I refer to as a 'throwaway' response, one that you know is wrong, that isn't worth the pixels on the screen, but you're using it just to save face, as if it somehow shows that you didn't somehow 'knuckle under'.

Sorta reminds of when a guy get his face punched and then claims that he was using his face to beat up the other guy's fist.



Whatever, if you don't have the sense of humor to appreciate my posts, don't read them.

Note that I seldom find anythig in your to comment
 
THe problem is that professors so often want to indoctrinate their charges with their political beliefs. Education is teaching people how to think, not what to think, so the fix is to get the university back to the task of providing education.

They have zero interest in doing that.

As a whole, no. They're there to teach and that's what they do.
 
The dramatic shift among college professors that’s hurting students’ education



Imagine that? I've debated a number of folks on here a number of times that deny this is true.

What amazes me is that this specific topic, the liberal / progressive indoctrination in the education system, has been brought up numerous times, and every time those of the the left end of the political spectrum have tried to minimize it, disbelieve it, contest it, or blame it on professorial outliers.

Guess this survey data by the Higher Education Research Institute (HERI) at UCLA will also be simply cast onto the river of deNile as all the other observances of the same liberal / progressive indoctrination pervasive in education at all levels here in the US and elsewhere.

Any of those deniers out there care to apologize? It's OK. I'll wait (probably a really long time).
 
What amazes me is that this specific topic, the liberal / progressive indoctrination in the education system, has been brought up numerous times, and every time those of the the left end of the political spectrum have tried to minimize it, disbelieve it, contest it, or blame it on professorial outliers.

Guess this survey data by the Higher Education Research Institute (HERI) at UCLA will also be simply cast onto the river of deNile as all the other observances of the same liberal / progressive indoctrination pervasive in education at all levels here in the US and elsewhere.

Any of those deniers out there care to apologize? It's OK. I'll wait (probably a really long time).

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

:agree: The 12th of Never will occur first! :mrgreen:
 
When I taught college, I had a bumper sticker in my window that said, " I will live in the 60's till something better comes along ".

Fortunate for my student, I taught Electronics and Process Technology. A hard core skill.

I got into daily fights with mathematics professors because my students would come to me for help rather than them.

This is understood if you have ever tried to learn anything from a Mathematics ONLY professor. They usually teach way over the student's head to prove how superior they are because most Mathematics professors wanted to do something else and failed at it, so now they are teaching Math to pay the bills.

CASE IN POINT: The simple two men digging a ditch word problem. I have yet to have a Math professor tell them the easy way to solve it.

Digger A dig a hole in 3 hours, digger B digs the same hole in 5 hours. How long would it take them BOTH to dig a hole working together.

The simple answer is (A times B) divided by ( A plus B). Works every time, and you have a pretty confident answer if your answer is LESS THAN the shortest time.

So as long as your answer is less than 3, you can be pretty confident you have the right answer.
On a multiple choice test you just look for a selection that is less than 3.
If there is only 1 selection, pick it, and go on to the next question without doing any math at all.

A digs half a hole in 1 1/2 hours B digs half a hole in 2 1/2 hours. Average 2 hours. That's how long it would take both of them to dig one hole That's how I would do it but I didn't even go to college, never mind teach there. (Even though I was a CHIEF Petty Officer).
 
As a whole, no. They're there to teach and that's what they do.

Most of the students dont want to be educated, and the market decides, because the UNiversity is dead. Professors thus tend to entertain, pander to, assign light work loads, and otherwise do what they need to do to get to the next teaching assignment without complications. Remember that for the most part those leading the classroom are poorly paid itinerant workers with relatively poor working conditions, they are not going to push back against either the university that is abusing them nor the students who pay for everything (in theory).

But the low number of Tenured Profs, the ones who have made it, they are out to make their mark, and the mark they are shooting for is to turn out more copies of themselves. And students look ago learned to butter up their teachers my claiming to agree with them, by fawning over them, and teachers being human love it. If no one in the room demands that education take place you can expect that education will not take place.
 
Most of the students dont want to be educated, and the market decides, because the UNiversity is dead. Professors thus tend to entertain, pander to, assign light work loads, and otherwise do what they need to do to get to the next teaching assignment without complications. Remember that for the most part those leading the classroom are poorly paid itinerant workers with relatively poor working conditions, they are not going to push back against either the university that is abusing them nor the students who pay for everything (in theory).

But the low number of Tenured Profs, the ones who have made it, they are out to make their mark, and the mark they are shooting for is to turn out more copies of themselves. And students look ago learned to butter up their teachers my claiming to agree with them, by fawning over them, and teachers being human love it. If no one in the room demands that education take place you can expect that education will not take place.

IDK what you've been drinking, but I'll pass.
 
Things must be very bad if "or the most part those leading the classroom are poorly paid itinerant workers"

Does that mean illegals are getting jobs teaching college?

Some reading material so that you can get up to speed on this:

The large and growing reliance on non-tenure-track faculty throughout higher education has resulted in such faculty members now accounting for approximately 70 percent of the faculty providing instruction at nonprofit institutions nationwide. Yet, most campuses ignore the needs of this group, operating as though tenure-track faculty members are the norm. As non-tenure-track faculty have been hired in greater numbers, institutions have often not considered how their faculty policies and practices—and the working conditions encountered by adjuncts, particularly those working part time—may carry deeply troubling implications for student learning, equal-employment opportunities and nondiscrimination, and risk management.
The Changing Academic Workforce | AGB
 
What amazes me is that this specific topic, the liberal / progressive indoctrination in the education system, has been brought up numerous times, and every time those of the the left end of the political spectrum have tried to minimize it, disbelieve it, contest it, or blame it on professorial outliers.

Guess this survey data by the Higher Education Research Institute (HERI) at UCLA will also be simply cast onto the river of deNile as all the other observances of the same liberal / progressive indoctrination pervasive in education at all levels here in the US and elsewhere.

Any of those deniers out there care to apologize? It's OK. I'll wait (probably a really long time).

It's all just another part of the vast right wing conspiracy we keep hearing about.
 
It's all just another part of the vast right wing conspiracy we keep hearing about.
Must be tough to accept that your vast LW conspiracy/indoctrination....isn't supported by your own article.
 
Must be tough to accept that your vast LW conspiracy/indoctrination....isn't supported by your own article.

You really don't get it, but that's okay. It doesn't bother me for you to project it upon me. It's just an interwebs forum. However, the fact that you accused me of saying something that I didn't say, and that the thing you accused me of saying is exactly what Hillary and others say.. A LOT... is just hilarious. Thank you for that.
 
So since your argument that "Profs indoctrinate" is not supported by the OP's source, is your next argument going to be that non-tenured teachers are "indoctrinating"?

Let me restate so that understanding can be achieved:

My argument is that most classroom leaders are poorly paid abused workers who dont give a **** about education because they are always chasing the next paycheck and cant afford to make waves so they spoon feed what ever the consumer demands, and the demand is not for education:

And the few tenured professors dont give a **** about education because they are too busy trying to " mold the next generation", which is the same thing as turning out mini me's of themselves.

Let me know if you still dont comprehend, as we can do this again if need be.
 
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You really don't get it, but that's okay. It doesn't bother me for you to project it upon me. It's just an interwebs forum. However, the fact that you accused me of saying something that I didn't say, and that the thing you accused me of saying is exactly what Hillary and others say.. A LOT... is just hilarious. Thank you for that.
What part are you arguing you did not "say"? That college students are being "indoctrinated" by LW Profs?

Yes, you did say that, that is what I am saying is not supported BY YOUR OWN SOURCE.

Hurr durr.
 
And the few tenured professors dont give a **** about education because they are too busy trying to " mold the next generation", which is the same thing as turning out mini me's of themselves.
Again, for the hard of comprehending, the OP does NOT support this contention.
 
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