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Yoga Pants - Appropriate?

It does, and it always will. :shrug:

Women can either plan around this reality and be safe, or they can ignore it and put themselves at risk.



Did I ever say that it did?



No means no. If a man breaks the law, he should go to jail.

Thank you. You have avoided saying that for several posts. The environment a woman puts herself in has more to do with her safety than what she wears. And even if she puts herself in an unsafe environment, the man who assaults her is to blame for the assault.



What more to it than that really is there?

Nothing.

Do European nations have any more of a problem with this than we do even with lower ages of consent?

Having brought Europe into the conversation, you would have more of an idea than I.
I disagree that the "self-control and personal responsibility" to which you allude here is even necessarily desirable under all circumstances in the first place.

Whoa, what? What circumstance is self-control and personal responsibility not desirable?

A 20, 21, 22, or 23 year old wants to date a 16 year old (and vice versa). So what? Why does that matter?

On an objective basis, it's really not that big deal so long as the relationship is consensual and non-abusive. In the past, such relationships were common place.

In many (rather civilized) parts of the world, they still are common today.

Because she is not a fully developed adult. Arcana even suggested that though AoC is lower in parts of Europe, there is an age limitation of 3 years in difference as well. I also said that they don't treat their teenagers like children, but at least in this area, we seem to agree.

A man beyond the legal difference, can wait. Be a man. What is wrong with being a man and doing the right thing? Because of opinions like this, I welcome laws that protect young girls, even from themselves. This is why there is a line in the sand as far as when a person become fully responsible for their own actions. Why a man should have a pass when it comes to sexual relationships, is baffling.

Which you have not demonstrated that having the law set strictly at age 18 even does.

Huh? At 18, a girl is responsible for herself and for the mistakes she might make with regard to older men. I cannot logically argue against that principle if I'm going to argue that a man has to be responsible for himself with regard to having sex with too young girl.

It can certainly be a contributing factor in the circumstances leading up to her assault. Trying to deny this basic fact is tantamount to blatant delusion.

There are some legitimately bad men out there. Going out of one's way to draw their attention generally isn't a good idea.

I addressed this above.
Again, I question your premise that such "restraint" is even necessary in all cases anyway.

Most of the rest of the world seems to get on just fine without it.

And again, I question what exactly you mean by that. In what case should a man, or woman, not be held personally responsible for not having sex with underaged persons?
 
Sure a man can be sexually aroused by a woman's attire, but he can also be sexually aroused b/c she has a pretty face. Do we tell women to walk around with bags on their head so they can avoid being sexually assaulted?

It depends upon the circumstances and one's intentions more than anything else.

Just because you might take an expensive sports car and a tuxedo to a swanky downtown party, doesn't mean that you should do the same for a day trip to the worst neighborhood in inner city Detroit.

Likewise, wearing attire which does too much to extenuate a woman's sexual features tends to be a bad idea in certain environments, and around certain types of men, as well.

And the oddity continues!

Argument from absurdity. I thought the skin tight pants that leave nothing to be desired was already agreed by you to be possibly inappropriate in a public school setting, if not covered appropriately. This doesn't really even have anything to do with sexually attractive. Read the thread. It would be similarly inappropriate and distracting for a guy to wear skin tight leggings with his cannon being clearly visible in every detail. Even guys would likely find that inappropriate at high school, and OK to prohibit as part of a reasonable dress code. And in this case it has nothing to do with sexual arousal, or any of this "20 something guy aroused by a 16 year old" irrelevant nonsense (IMO).

Good grief people, we all wear clothes, get over it.

Yea... This tangent kind of sprang out of nowhere all of the sudden. I think because Chris was unhappy that I said that even grown men could find scantily clad teenage girls to be sexually "distracting."

Things kind of ballooned out of control from there.

The funny part about all of this is that it's actually kind of a moot point for me. Not that I have any particular desire to date teenagers, of course, but South Carolina's age of consent actually is 16. lol
 
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Thank you. You have avoided saying that for several posts.

I have said as much before in this thread.

Having brought Europe into the conversation, you would have more of an idea than I.

I am aware of no epidemic of abused teenage girls in most European nations. This would seem to imply that AoC higher than 16 really makes no appreciable difference where adult predation upon adolescents is concerned.

Because she is not a fully developed adult.

Neither is an 18 year old.

Arcana even suggested that though AoC is lower in parts of Europe, there is an age limitation of 3 years in difference as well.

She also said that she wasn't shy about dating men who were five years older even when she was (by American standards) under aged.

I also pointed out earlier that many, many European nations have no equivalent to "Romeo and Juliet" laws for persons above the legal age of consent, but under the age of 18. Sweden, for instance, sets AoC at 15 with no particular caveats regarding age difference.

Young women are not being taken advantage of by men at any unacceptable rate because of it.

A man beyond the legal difference, can wait. Be a man. What is wrong with being a man and doing the right thing?

Men (those who might actually be interested, anyway) will wait simply because they have no other choice. I really don't think "right" or "wrong" enter into the equation either way.

It is a completely arbitrary standard our particular culture has decided to enforce in recent decades; nothing more, and nothing less.

Huh? At 18, a girl is responsible for herself and for the mistakes she might make with regard to older men.

Why? Because the powers that be say so?

That might be good enough for you, but anyone looking at the matter objectively can tell that the standard being enforced here is purely arbitrary, and doesn't accomplish much of anything as far as "protecting" young girls goes anyway.
 
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Yahoo!



Thoughts?

I gotta say....yoga pants are one of the greatest inventions ever....when worn by the right females....

But are yoga pants appropriate things for kids/girls to wear to school?

Realistically, would it make any difference to your average weirdo if a child is wearing yoga pants, or an average school girl's skirt?

Not really. A gawper is a gawper.

Yoga pants are probably more practical and comfortable. If some male has issues, they are his.
 
Gath is right on this. Chalk is up as men are from mars, if you don't experience it, it's very hard to convey. Even my wife who is intelligent and is fully, entirely well versed in every aspect of men-behavior, told routinely about this stuff from me, still doesn't *really* get it. So I'm not saying it's some failing in you that you don't get it.

Maybe think about it this way.

When you see something attractive, sexually (anything can be attractive or sexually attractive, sadly), it's an EMOTIONAL response. It is not going through your higher brain function. Like if you see a really sexy body of a guy, you may react positively. But if you see his face and realize you know them and it's REALLY improper to have such thoughts about them (it's your cousin or your father when he was young, whatever you want to shock yourself with), your rational self intercepts that emotion, rejects it, and typically would stop thinking about it intentionally.

Why it's inappropriate is a higher brain function.
Stopping ones thoughts about it and stopping observation of it is a higher brain function.
The emotional response, attraction, fantasy, etc., is sadly a pre-programmed (to a degree) animal response.

Of course most guys when faced with their higher brain function typically would avoid it altogether. American Beauty I thought touched on that in popular culture.

You are completely off base. For one thing, when I see an attractive man, I might admire his attractiveness and say that he's hot or whatever, but I certainly don't start "throbbing in my nether regions" for him. :roll: It takes a lot MORE than that for most woman than to LOOK at a person. You guys are so pathetic and a menace to society.
 
I have said as much before in this thread.

Not to me, until this post, though I have asked you to, more than once.
I am aware of no epidemic of abused teenage girls in most European nations. This would seem to imply that AoC higher than 16 really makes no appreciable difference where adult predation upon adolescents is concerned.
That makes no sense. If the age is lower, the bar is lower for legal action and so you wouldn't likely see an increase (epidemic is your word) in the prosecution of adult predation. That doesn't mean it's good for 16-year-olds to be open game for adult males of all ages.

Neither is an 18 year old.

But that is the "line in the sand" we have drawn. I'm not arguing about raising the age at which we make kids legally responsible adults. But once they are 18, they better take adult responsibility for themselves.



She also said that she wasn't shy about dating men who were five years older even when she was (by American standards) under aged.

I also pointed out earlier that many, many European nations have no equivalent to "Romeo and Juliet" laws for persons above the legal age of consent, but under the age of 18. Sweden, for instance, sets AoC at 15 with no particular caveats regarding age difference.
Young women are not being taken advantage of by men at any unacceptable rate because of it.

I saw what Arcana said about herself. I have no business discussing her personal decisions.

And I disagree with Sweden's law, just as I disagree with you you.

And you don't know that, because it's legal. Whereas in the U.S., there are cases all the time about men having sex with underage girls. Look at the Superbowl.
Forty-five people were arrested and 16 juveniles rescued in a two-week crackdown on prostitution in the New York-New Jersey area leading up to last Sunday's Super Bowl, Federal Bureau of Investigation officials said on Tuesday.

The bureau said some of those arrested claimed they traveled to the site because of the high-profile football game, which drew an estimated 400,000 visitors to the region. The minors rescued ranged in age from 13 to 17 and included high school students and children reported missing by their families, the FBI said.
45 arrested, 16 juveniles rescued in Super Bowl prostitution bust | Reuters
Men (those who might actually be interested, anyway) will wait simply because they have no other choice. I really don't think "right" or "wrong" enter into the equation either way.

It is a completely arbitrary standard our particular culture has decided to enforce in recent decades; nothing more, and nothing less.
The law makes it right or wrong, to start with. Then there is the whole, why does an adult want sex with an underage teenager?

Why? Because the powers that be say so?

That might be good enough for you, but anyone looking at the matter objectively can tell that the standard being enforced here is purely arbitrary, and doesn't accomplish much of anything as far as "protecting" young girls goes anyway.

Yep, because as a society, we make laws for the benefit of society. Like driving at 16. Or voting at 18. Or drinking at 21. Or retirement at 65. It's all arbitrary, but a majority of our society agreed with those benchmarks and so it it.

Sure it protects young girls. It puts pervs behind bars. Where they belong.

Now, once again you have made an odd statement, two times in the post I responded to, and didn't answer my question.

I disagree that the "self-control and personal responsibility" to which you allude here is even necessarily desirable under all circumstances in the first place.

Again, I question your premise that such "restraint" is even necessary in all cases anyway.

Most of the rest of the world seems to get on just fine without it.

Why is personal responsibility not necessary in all circumstances? Under what circumstances would you say personal responsibility not desirable?
 
You are completely off base. For one thing, when I see an attractive man, I might admire his attractiveness and say that he's hot or whatever, but I certainly don't start "throbbing in my nether regions" for him. :roll: It takes a lot MORE than that for most woman than to LOOK at a person. You guys are so pathetic and a menace to society.

Not to be creepy, or anything, but I can actually start to go a bit hard from simply standing within a few feet of a woman that I find to be sexually attractive sometimes.

That's just kind of the way guys work. :shrug:

That doesn't mean it's good for 16-year-olds to be open game for adult males of all ages.

Most of the world does exactly that, and has no problems whatsoever because of it.

Again, you're arguing solely off of abstract rhetoric here. Unfortunately, the simple fact of the matter is that practical comparison to other models shows your rhetoric to be almost completely without merit.

We have not seen any better outcomes result from having the Age of Consent set to 18 as opposed to some lower age. As a matter of fact, our society actually performs far worse in many regards when compared to those within our peer group who adopt the lower model.

Even if there are other factors at play there, the conclusion this reality must lead us to is ultimately self evident. Higher ages of consent are, by and large, simply ineffective at achieving their desired goals.

But that is the "line in the sand" we have drawn.

Which is exactly my point. It ultimately is only a "line in the sand."

There really is no greater morality or compelling reason behind it.

I saw what Arcana said about herself. I have no business discussing her personal decisions.

They were her decisions, not society's. Such decisions are common place in the part of the world where she lives, and they also do not seem to result in much in the way of objective harm.

That's the key takeaway here.

And I disagree with Sweden's law, just as I disagree with you you.

Demonstrate the harm it causes. :shrug:

And you don't know that, because it's legal. Whereas in the U.S., there are cases all the time about men having sex with underage girls. Look at the Superbowl.

A) I don't agree with your premise that men having sex with young women under the age of 18 is really all that terrible in the first place. If pursued consensually and in a mutually loving content, it can be just as valid as any other form of sexual expression.

B) Prostitution is already illegal and unethical under any context. Age of consent barely even comes into play here.

The law makes it right or wrong, to start with.

Law is not the arbiter of my morality.

Frankly, if we were to follow your logic here, wouldn't that mean that having sex with girls you consider to be under aged would be "right" for me (considering that AoC in South Carolina is 16) and people living in Europe, where it is "wrong" for people in the part of the country where you live? How does that work, exactly?

Then there is the whole, why does an adult want sex with an underage teenager?]

Both distinctions are rather arbitrary in the first place.

Yep, because as a society, we make laws for the benefit of society. Like driving at 16. Or voting at 18. Or drinking at 21. Or retirement at 65. It's all arbitrary, but a majority of our society agreed with those benchmarks and so it it.

Granted. However, the "benefit" to which you allude is still far from conclusive.

In any case, just because society arbitrarily decides something to be the case, doesn't mean that it actually is the case, or actually makes any damn sense, for that matter. This is all I was saying.

Now, once again you have made an odd statement, two times in the post I responded to, and didn't answer my question.

Why is personal responsibility not necessary in all circumstances? Under what circumstances would you say personal responsibility not desirable?

You were implying that it was indicative of "personal responsibility" to follow irrational laws. I do not necessarily agree.

If it were to be made illegal for a man to urinate standing up, for instance, I would hardly consider it to be a lapse of my "personality responsibility" to ignore or question that law.

Sure, I might go to jail for my decision, and I might very well be coerced into "towing the line" for that reason. However, that still wouldn't make the act of defying the law in question intrinsically immoral or a breech of "personal responsibility." Legal morality and actual morality are two entirely different concepts.
 
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Thank goodness i am trying to use morals for goodness and not badness when practicing not judging women by the clothes they may not be wearing on the Internet, and porting it to real life whenever i the presence of mind to do so.
 
Another question could be do you have a sense of how your wife should dress around people you know? If you had guy friends over watching a ballgame, would it be appropriate for her to do so dressed like this? Or could she inadvertently be sending some signal? If any of their wives there should they have any problem with this?

how-sexy-is-a-woman-in-yoga-pants-1609915997-sep-25-2012-1-600x400.jpg
 
Another question could be do you have a sense of how your wife should dress around people you know? If you had guy friends over watching a ballgame, would it be appropriate for her to do so dressed like this? Or could she inadvertently be sending some signal? If any of their wives there should they have any problem with this?

how-sexy-is-a-woman-in-yoga-pants-1609915997-sep-25-2012-1-600x400.jpg

I don't think there's anything wrong with how she's dressed. She should probably stand up or sit in a chair though. :mrgreen:
 
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