Thread: "Liberal" college education

Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive

Sure, in the short term, a trade or technical degree might be better. However, in the long term, I think a college degree with be much better. In other words, I think swapping trade/tech school for college is a solution to a temporary problem. Moreover, I expect the economy to be doing much better in 4-5 years, so kids who start college now should be in pretty good shape.

my daughter makes about 60k as a server. she's investing and doing pretty well. there are many paths.

Originally Posted by Your Star

The demonizing of higher education is down right scary to me. Don't these people realize that unless we get back on top with regards to education then our standing in the world will plummet?

"Ignorance is strength"! Yeah, it's scary because it's basically stating that if your education doesn't reaffirm whatever beliefs you held before stepping into a classroom then it's a failure of education or some mass conspiracy.

Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive

It's great that you make $65K, but it's been shown time and again that more education equals more money on average. Also, my earlier point was that the United States is transitioning to a more college oriented work environment. Consequently, jobs that require degrees will increase and jobs that don't will decrease as they are outsourced, replaced by machines or phased out.

This is true...the gap between unemployed with a college degree and those without are pretty drastic. The lifetime earnings of the two different groups are pretty drastic as well. Not everybody is cut out for college and trade schools are a good way to go for a lot of people, but I agree. Going on in life without some form of post-High School education is really going to make it difficult. Some might do fine, but overall...it's not a good choice.

I worked at a university for a decade, and was on an advisory board for a technical school for longer.
For years, I have told students, the way to success is to make yourself a resource within a company,
not a commodity. A technical education is one way to get your foot in the door, but you most likely will
go in as a commodity. It will take years of work and effort to be seen as anything but a commodity.
A university degree (in a related topic) will put you in a position with greater expectations, so you are
better positioned to move into the resource role.
As to colleges being liberal, Most of the professors I have known are liberals.

Originally Posted by longview

I worked at a university for a decade, and was on an advisory board for a technical school for longer.
For years, I have told students, the way to success is to make yourself a resource within a company,
not a commodity. A technical education is one way to get your foot in the door, but you most likely will
go in as a commodity. It will take years of work and effort to be seen as anything but a commodity.
A university degree (in a related topic) will put you in a position with greater expectations, so you are
better positioned to move into the resource role.

Some of us prefer to be a commodity. As a commodity I can move from one place to another relatively easily if the need arises. I have no interest in rising to the level of being a resource, because that means having to take on the added headaches of supervising and dealing with the politics of business. I'm more than happy to come in every day, do my work, and forget the place the moment I walk back out the door at the end of the day. I've been asked several times about moving into supervisory positions and I've told people for years that I have less than no interest.

Originally Posted by Tigger

Some of us prefer to be a commodity. As a commodity I can move from one place to another relatively easily if the need arises. I have no interest in rising to the level of being a resource, because that means having to take on the added headaches of supervising and dealing with the politics of business. I'm more than happy to come in every day, do my work, and forget the place the moment I walk back out the door at the end of the day. I've been asked several times about moving into supervisory positions and I've told people for years that I have less than no interest.

Good point! We each value different aspects of employment, stability, flexibility, respect, ect.

Originally Posted by longview

Good point! We each value different aspects of employment, stability, flexibility, respect, ect.

Yep. Some of us have no problem being the peons. We like it that way. That way when the axe falls on the company, we're buried far enough down below that the blade very rarely gets anywhere near us.

Originally Posted by Paschendale

It's a shame that no conservatives have posted some examples of liberal education in here. I'd love to pick them apart... Fiddy came close, but no concrete examples. You'd think with how overwhelmingly indoctrinating higher learning is, it would be easy for conservatives to show us times when their communist professors were trying to brainwash them and they heroically resisted.

You want me to go into more detail on my experiences in higher education so you can pick them apart? No thanks. There is a wide range of literature out there surrounding the very issue, from the 1950s on up (including the problem of communism and fellow-traveling professors who felt their academic freedom was at stake), if you would like to consult those sources. They each have their problems, exaggerations, and at times, misconceptions of liberal or Leftist arguments, but they are out there and have been apart of the intellectual history of the university for quite some time.

Again, that being said, I have enjoyed many lecturers, many of whom happened to be liberals or well to the Left of American liberalism (in fact, one of my mentors was a socialist).

Originally Posted by Fiddytree

You want me to go into more detail on my experiences in higher education so you can pick them apart? No thanks. There is a wide range of literature out there surrounding the very issue, from the 1950s on up (including the problem of communism and fellow-traveling professors who felt their academic freedom was at stake), if you would like to consult those sources. They each have their problems, exaggerations, and at times, misconceptions of liberal or Leftist arguments, but they are out there and have been apart of the intellectual history of the university for quite some time.

Again, that being said, I have enjoyed many lecturers, many of whom happened to be liberals or well to the Left of American liberalism (in fact, one of my mentors was a socialist).

There are liberal professors. Socialists. It would be false to claim there are not. There are also conservative professors, and the balance is different from school to school. What bothers me most is not that we have the extremes, but that in college some might not be open to hearing things they disagree with, from either side. Too much shouting down and too little listening.

Originally Posted by liblady

my daughter makes about 60k as a server. she's investing and doing pretty well. there are many paths.

Good for her just like it's for Tigger that he makes 65K. I never said that people can't make good money as something doesn't require a college degree and I also didn't say anything to contradict the point that there are "many paths" so that doesn't have much to do with my argument. I did say, however, that it's been shown over and over again that pay increases with education on average. I also said that the country is moving towards more college degree oriented work patterns and that people ought to be prepared for that future.

I'd also like to add that my emphasis on college education cannot summed up in how much a person makes.