Regicollis

Socialism is not necessarily the idea that everyone should get the same of everything. Socialism is the introduction of democratic control to the economy and doing away with individual property rights to the means of production.

If the professor instead had let the students decide for themselves how the grades should be distributed it is not impossible that they would have chosen another way of distributing them than giving everyone the same. Also if the system were to be socialist the students would have had more control over the entire learning process and have power over the methods of teaching, the curriculum etc. I'm not saying that this is necessarily the best way to do education (although student democracy have many beneficial influences) but it comes closer to a simulation of socialism than the "everyone gets the same" system does.

Capitalists don't produce anything. Production happens when labour combines capital with natural resources. The capitalist is completely superfluous for the productive process.

__________________

Goldenboy219

First off, you are getting overly ambiguous. There are a whole plethora of socialist theories, and the one you happened to use in response to Tony is referred to as democratically ruled market socialism. By "abolishing" property rights and giving the "means of production" to the people who elect the government, it is in -a democratic fashion- transferring the means of production to the government (the government is the people). Therefore, the true definition of socialism is quite correct.

Secondly, how do you propose someone "risks" something in the form of organizing a business plan without that someone playing the role of "capitalist"? If the individual does not have property rights... how does that work exactly?

__________________
Be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the present. For in the present is where we shape our future.

Khayembii Communique

Technological innovation has happened before capitalism existed and will continue to exist without it.

__________________
"I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

DrunkenAsparagus

Yes however, the innovation since the Industrial Revolution has been unparalled

__________________
"Doubleplusungood"

George Orwell

Khayembii Communique

I don't see how that is a "however".

__________________
"I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

DrunkenAsparagus

I'll take a lot of technological innovation over smaller amounts. Just look at government restirctions on drug prices. The market is able to produce far more innovation than when it's bogged down by too much government or "democracy"

__________________
"Doubleplusungood"

George Orwell

Goldenboy219

I am not doubting that. Entrepreneurism however needs a profit system to function. Without it, the only reward is the sheer utility gained from innovation, and in the end this is not enough to "pull" a decisive number of willing participants. Keep in mind my argument does not stem from a moral ground.

__________________
Be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the present. For in the present is where we shape our future.

Khayembii Communique

Technological development is not just about "more". There is much more to it than that.

That is a tautological statement.

__________________
"I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

DrunkenAsparagus

Whatever quantity of innovation that has occured since the early 1800s has been matched by quality. Conditions for even the average poor person in a Western Country far surpass that of someone back then.

__________________
"Doubleplusungood"

George Orwell

Goldenboy219

By all means enlighten me.

Not intended to be. Innovation does not rest merely in the realm of "invention" as in inventing a computer.

__________________
Be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the present. For in the present is where we shape our future.