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Biggest Increase In Income In 50 Years

Slyfox696 said:
I don't believe that term means what you think it means. Providing the broad overview statistic, the statistic which is reported, is not cherry picking. Ignoring the broad overall data to find the subsection of data which aligns to what you want to believe is, however, cherry-picking.
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You're asking for someone to behave rationally and with some degree of intellectual honesty.

In this case, I fear that's asking the impossible of the incapable.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
No, I'm not. Try and refrain from using words that you don't understand. You won't look so desperate that way.
Again, sorry you had your ass handed to you and now you're lashing out about that.
Try and be less emotional. You might make a cogent argument that way. Some day.
So, if I'm reading you right, you're insanely jealous of those of us that do actually have university educations.
You have my pity, but that's about it.
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You seem to be a stew of conflicting, agitated, but mostly antagonistic emotions, friend Tanngrinir.

Did I strike a nerve, perhaps?
That was not my intent.

If my pressing you for your credentials with regard to training or education on Statistics has cause you some hurt, or feelings of persecution/ridicule, I do sincerely apologize.
I never meant to belittle you in any way!

I would never do anything to harm our friendship, please know that.
You life experiences are what they are, and mine are (as admittedly more prestigious and more widely celebrated) what they are as well.
I respect whatever trade school or shop class you attended, and I salute those men and women who helped to guide you and shape you into the man you are today.

And a damned fine job they did.
You type well, you produce very few grammatical errors, virtually no spelling errors, and your avatar is as attractive as it is shiny and eye-catching.
You have plenty to be proud of!

Now, come give me a hug, buddy!

:lol:
 
Sparky2 said:
You seem to be a stew of conflicting, agitated, but mostly antagonistic emotions, friend Tanngrinir.
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Only to the delusional. Not to any rational adult.
Did I strike a nerve, perhaps?
That was not my intent.
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No. You evoked a feeling of pity in me for the state you're in, but that's about it.
If my pressing you for your credentials with regard to training or education on Statistics has cause you some hurt, or feelings of persecution/ridicule, I do sincerely apologize.
I never meant to belittle you in any way!
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Not to worry, didn't happen.
I would never do anything to harm our friendship, please know that.
You life experiences are what they are, and mine are (as admittedly more prestigious and more widely celebrated) what they are as well.
I respect whatever trade school or shop class you attended, and I salute those men and women who helped to guide you and shape you into the man you are today.

And a damned fine job they did.
You type well, you produce very few grammatical errors, virtually no spelling errors, and your avatar is as attractive as it is shiny and eye-catching.
You have plenty to be proud of!

Now, come give me a hug, buddy!

:lol:
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Sorry you had your ass handed to you so thoroughly, and all you can do is whine about your lack of a formal education.

Your jealousy of your betters is most unbecoming.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Only to the delusional. Not to any rational adult.
No. You evoked a feeling of pity in me for the state you're in, but that's about it.
Not to worry, didn't happen.
Sorry you had your ass handed to you so thoroughly, and all you can do is whine about your lack of a formal education.
Your jealousy of your betters is most unbecoming.
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I believe this is the start to a beautiful friendship.

I know that we may have hit a speed bump or two at the outset, but I really do feel like we can be the best of internet buddies.

Many such relationships start out this way.
Anger, rationalizing, projecting, and lashing out on the part of one web forum poster (usually the one with a dark, brooding, almost Mandy Patinkin-like avatar),
and
cheerfulness, truthfulness, compassion, intelligence, and integrity on the part of the other web forum poster (nearly always the one with the avatar of an old Japanese motorcycle).

It's so predictable it's almost nauseating, this friendship of ours, Tanngrisnir!

Love you, buddy.
:2wave:
 
Sparky2 said:
I believe this is the start to a beautiful friendship.

I know that we may have hit a speed bump or two at the outset, but I really do feel like we can be the best of internet buddies.

Many such relationships start out this way.
Anger, rationalizing, projecting, and lashing out on the part of one web forum poster (usually the one with a dark, brooding, almost Mandy Patinkin-like avatar),
and
cheerfulness, truthfulness, compassion, intelligence, and integrity on the part of the other web forum poster (nearly always the one with the avatar of an old Japanese motorcycle).

It's so predictable it's almost nauseating, this friendship of ours, Tanngrisnir!

Love you, buddy.
:2wave:
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Thanks, as always, for proving my point.

Sorry that you carry your lack of any formal education around with you like a cross.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The U-6 rate is 9.7
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Yes, that's down from a high of 17% in 2009.

The "natural" or "full employment" rate for U6 is probably around 8.5% to 9%. So it's still a bit high, but nowhere near disastrous.
 
Visbek said:
5.2% increase in 2015, largest increase in household income in 50 years. Household income is only 1.7% below the bubble peak in 2007.

Official poverty rate dropped 1.2%, to 13.5%. Biggest decline since 1968.

Fox: U.S. Household Incomes Surged 5.2% in 2015, First Gain Since 2007 | Fox Business

NPR: U.S. Census Report: Household Incomes Rise In 2015 : NPR

For the horse-race types, Politico: Record rise in incomes could boost Clinton - POLITICO
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and if this keeps up soon we'll be back to 1999 levels of income!!! America is stagnating as it becomes more and more anti business libsocialist. 1+1=2

Trump wants to go back to the 4% GDP pro business era while stupid liberals are driving our businesses to china with highest business tax in world!!!!
 
RetiredUSN said:
Another big lie.

View attachment 67207320
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You don't understand what you're observing. Nominal wages have been anchored to extremely low levels of inflation. Let's account for inflation using the consumer price index.

fredgraph.png


Notice anything?
 
Kushinator said:
You don't understand what you're observing. Nominal wages have been anchored to extremely low levels of inflation. Let's account for inflation using the consumer price index.

fredgraph.png


Notice anything?
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The inflation issue is a big lie also. They keep changing the goalposts. My material costs, food costs, medical costs, utility costs, have all gone up increasingly while they claim that inflation is low. Cherry picking certain living costs does not show what the average household is going through trying to make ends meet.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The inflation issue is a big lie also. They keep changing the goalposts. My material costs, food costs, medical costs, utility costs, have all gone up increasingly while they claim that inflation is low. Cherry picking certain living costs does not show what the average household is going through trying to make ends meet.
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I don't think you understand what inflation means. If the cost of water goes up, that's NOT necessarily an indicator of any inflation. Inflation is when price increases go beyond a handful of cherry picked industries, when the economy, on the whole, inflates.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The inflation issue is a big lie also. They keep changing the goalposts. My material costs, food costs, medical costs, utility costs, have all gone up increasingly while they claim that inflation is low. Cherry picking certain living costs does not show what the average household is going through trying to make ends meet.
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I can use the GDP deflator if you would prefer?

fredgraph.png


But something tells me that you will not accept reality no matter how it is defined. Keep in mind the changes in methodology are applied across the entire time series. Meaning, current methodology is used to determine inflation from years past.
 
Absentglare said:
I don't think you understand what inflation means. If the cost of water goes up, that's NOT necessarily an indicator of any inflation. Inflation is when price increases go beyond a handful of cherry picked industries, when the economy, on the whole, inflates.
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Disassociating various parts of the costs of living is a ****ing joke.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Disassociating various parts of the costs of living is a ****ing joke.
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If you are doing monetary policy it is not a joke. If oil prices for example gyrate wildly because of a war or something you may not want the money supply to gyrate with it since the oil gyration can be quick but money supply cant be. Make sense?

Also, keep in mind that inflation in prices is not so bad when you concomitantly have inflation in wages which you do typically have. Make sense?
 
RetiredUSN said:
Disassociating various parts of the costs of living is a ****ing joke.
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I'm not invalidating the gist of your argument. I think it sucks that wage growth has often been outpaced by cost of living growth in this country.

I'm just explaining what i have come to understand "inflation" to mean, and it's not the only method to have an increased cost of living.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The inflation issue is a big lie also. They keep changing the goalposts. My material costs, food costs, medical costs, utility costs, have all gone up increasingly while they claim that inflation is low. Cherry picking certain living costs does not show what the average household is going through trying to make ends meet.
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sigh

BLS is not "cherry picking" anything, and they don't move the goalposts. What they do is keep track of a wide variety of goods and services (in over 200 categories btw). Normally, CPI is updated every 10 years.

This is also not something you can figure out by feeling it, for several reasons:
• People feel losses (like price increases) far more than they do gains (like price drops)

• People quickly acclimate to increases in the standard of living

• You aren't specifically keeping track of your expenditures to anywhere near the same degree as the BLS does with its surveys

• You are one person, whereas the BLS surveys 7,000 families

For example, gas prices are nearly half what they were in 2013. Smartphones, flat screen TVs, clothes, cost far less than they did a few years ago. Why didn't you mention any of that information?

How much has the price of a dozen eggs changed since 2013?

Keep in mind that the BLS has very little room to screw around with inflation figures. Accurate figures are absolutely critical for a variety of government functions, ranging from Federal Reserve actions to Social Security adjustments. All sorts of businesses, including the financial sector, needs accurate figures.

Similarly, if inflation numbers are out of whack, the people whose businesses depend on accurate numbers are going to notice, and won't be shy. We see this in Argentina, for example, which has repeatedly understated inflation.
 
DA60 said:
'owned'?

Oh look...we may just have a poster from Grade 1.

Welcome.
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Oh, look we have a kindergartner poster!
 
RetiredUSN said:
The inflation issue is a big lie also. They keep changing the goalposts. My material costs, food costs, medical costs, utility costs, have all gone up increasingly while they claim that inflation is low. Cherry picking certain living costs does not show what the average household is going through trying to make ends meet.
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What cherry picking? The CPI uses thousands of goods to measure the average price change for urban consumers. If your spending pattern does not match the CPI basket (and it won't) then of course your experience of inflation will be different.
And inflation isn't supposed to measure what a household is going through to make ends meet, but the average change in prices.
 
Visbek said:
sigh

BLS is not "cherry picking" anything, and they don't move the goalposts. What they do is keep track of a wide variety of goods and services (in over 200 categories btw). Normally, CPI is updated every 10 years.[/qutoe]

That changed in 2002. Now it's every 2 years.

[qutoe]This is also not something you can figure out by feeling it, for several reasons:
• People feel losses (like price increases) far more than they do gains (like price drops)

• People quickly acclimate to increases in the standard of living

• You aren't specifically keeping track of your expenditures to anywhere near the same degree as the BLS does with its surveys

• You are one person, whereas the BLS surveys 7,000 families
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Prices come from the establishments. What and where people buy come from household surveys, but the price data is collected directly from the stores and the internet.

For example, gas prices are nearly half what they were in 2013. Smartphones, flat screen TVs, clothes, cost far less than they did a few years ago. Why didn't you mention any of that information?

How much has the price of a dozen eggs changed since 2013?
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And people don't notice that they change their habits, often according to price changes, and they ignore quality changes. Cars are a good example of this....you pay a lot more for a car now then you did 10 years, but if you break it down to the equipment you're buying
it's not as bad. Bluetooth, cruise control, anti-lock brakes, traction control, steering wheel controls, rearview camera, are all pretty common now, but used to be luxury items. So part of the increased cost of cars are those things that used to be optional, and that is not inflation.
 
Absentglare said:
.

I'm just explaining what i have come to understand "inflation" to mean, and it's not the only method to have an increased cost of living.
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Sure, China makes stuff more efficiently than we do so we buy stuff from there but with less income thanks to jobs going to china. Thus our cost of living goes up without regard to inflation at all.

A Fed induced inflation here would not change our cost of living since wages and prices would in theory go up together.
 
James972 said:
Sure, China makes stuff more efficiently than we do so we buy stuff from there but with less income thanks to jobs going to china.
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Nope! China makes stuff more cheaply than we do because they have a comparative advantage in low-skill/low-wage labor. There wouldn't be any more jobs if the goods were produced here (actually, there would be less jobs), because the cost in both terms of cost and opportunity lost, far exceed any financial benefit. Should we pay someone $15/hr to produce plastic widgets at the expense of being a $30/hr plumber, $70/hr engineer, etc...?

Thus our cost of living goes up without regard to inflation at all.
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Wrong again! Our cost of living goes down, because we get to consume goods that bear a production cost that is far less than ours.

A Fed induced inflation here would not change our cost of living since wages and prices would in theory go up together.
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You're ignoring the employment gains that accompany growth, along with the asset appreciation/debt depreciation that accompany inflation. You don't have even the slightest idea of what you speak.
 
Kushinator said:
There wouldn't be any more jobs if the goods were produced here.
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so you're saying that when an American factory moves across the border to Mexico that creates are more jobs in the USA, not less????
 
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