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Is being a "slacker" a handicap?

Wow, if I was really bad off right now, I might consider calling 911, and shooting the base of my spine, and pray for disability. When you know your paid for by government life is a bullet away, why not take it. Why not? No men are angels, no one is also truly that inhumane to be purely evil, what if a depressed person takes it out on themselves, but doesn't manage to finish the job, and is left disabled, are they covered, even though it may partially be their fault for not resisting it.


To be honest, I don't think the Federal gov. should have their hands in on welfare payments, I find that the duty of Charity, and state governments can do it as well, it works better on a state by state basis because conditions can vary, and no one is forced into paying into a system for the entire country, when they could have resources more efficiently used within their own state.
 
No one I have ever talked to has minded government helping the profoundly handicapped...ever...never ever.

So?

No one I have ever talked to has minded government helping the profoundly handicapped...ever...never ever.

But exactly what is a handicap? What if they have a sub 70 IQ, thats considered retarded by most. What if someone is ADD or ADHD isn't that a handicap when it comes to being valuable on the job? What about people who simply don't feel good most of the time, like they constantly have more than a normal amount of aches and pains.

Handicap is defined by the US Government as "Any person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities; has a record of such impairment; or is regarded as having such an impairment."

sub 70 IQ is handicapped. But having ADD or ADHD is not, in fact those two medical phrases makes me want to punch babies in the face. ADD and ADHD is made up mental defect. Cooked up for the purpose selling drugs and making parents and teachers jobs easier. There is very rarely any true cases of ADD and ADHD which is really a dopamine metabolism deficency (chemical imbalance). The States with the highest "ADD and ADHD" diagnoses are also the States that have the strictest standardize testing for federal funding. Wonder why? Because in those State the Federal Government actually strips out the test scores of kids with "ADD and ADHD".

This is how France address the "ADD and ADHD" issue. It's totally different then the US. They actually don't rely on drugs. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/suffer-the-children/201203/why-french-kids-dont-have-adhd

You mean like Fibromyalgia which can't actually be tested for? So we just put people on Lyrica and crap like it which doesn't actually fix it.

Or people who get migraines headaches? A past landlord of mine would leave his office mid afternoon everyday because his migraines were so bad. Now if that guy hadn't have been born rich (he managed his mothers properties), he wouldn't have been able to hold a full time job.

No, migraines are easily treatable and there is several over the counter and prescribed drugs to address it.

What about people who just don't have much "get up and go" in them. I have a couple of friends who seem to be constantly energy-less, they both hold decent jobs, but I have a feeling that they have those jobs only because of loyalties and friendships. If they were to loose those jobs and have to change employers, I bet neither of them would last more than a few months at a more demanding employer. Personally, I frequently take stimulants to get going at work.

Give them the Ritalin or Adderall kids are getting for ADD/ADHD. That'll get their asses moving. But we all take stimulants to get going. Caffine is a stimulant.

How about people who are chronically depressed? That's an illness, some people can't hardly even get up out of bed due to depression. About a year ago I fired a young man for serious attendance problems at work, after letting him go he told me that he had "been depressed a lot". Is that a valid excuse for not going to work? In 2009 I had an employee clock in at work, then he clocked right back out and told a co-worker that he had to go home and take care of his sick child. He did go home, but he went home to hang himself. He had been fighting depression for several months. Is depression or any other type of mental illness a handicap? I assume that most of us are mentally ill, it's just a matter of degree. where do we draw that line?

Can't really do anything about being chronically depressed or anybody who has a mental illness as it requires one to want to seek help. Can't for a depressed person to pop a pill to make them feel good.

I strongly believe the we over medicate in the US. We say "Oh you feel a little blue" Here's some drugs. Doctors jump to conclusions without asking and seeking knowledge past the doctors office.

I'm not trying to advocate for anything in any direction, but exactly where do we draw the line for the purposes of our "saftey net system"? Arn't many poor people poor because of some sort of unrecognized handicap or marginally recognized handicap?

Maybe "lazy" is actually a physical or mental or emotional illness that could be or should be treated by a doctor of some sort. I dunno.

The line is drawn by the definition. Those you things you list would have a hard time to pass that. Lazy is a by product of A) Society or B) an underlying medical issue. The later can be treated. You can teach work ethic to the former.
 
The line is drawn where society as a whole defines it. Individually some people may not consider depression an illness and some people will. Whenever laws/regulations affecting businesses come into play we must always consider it's potential abuse vs something being real. People abusing the system is why we can't have nice things after all. For example, if someone had a diagnosis for depression and was contemplating suicide I'd be more than happy to give them time off so that they don't blow their brains out, but then there's always the person who may be in a foul mood or not show up to work and just wants to play video games at home. It sucks.

It's the same way in California. They legalized marijuana and it's obviously being abused. That makes other states not want to pass legalized marijuana laws.

Oh this is crap. Marijuana is not legal for everybody in California and other places have had no issue passing decriminalizing or legalizing it.
 
It's being abused if you're claiming you have a headache when you really just want to get a prescription to smoke a joint. I'm all for legalization but until then people claiming that they have back pain when they really don't in order to get marijuana is an abuse of they system.


Or the system is abusing them. It's not "criminal" to smoke it in California or even hold it (without a medical reason), it's a $100 fine if caught. The only states that don't even have that is just 11 states.
 
Having a brother-in-law that is a drug addict I can tell you it indeed harms others. It takes a heavy toll on his siblings and mother. A lot of stress on the family members and the person is a leech on them.

Pot and drug addict? Yeah go fish elsewhere. He was ****ing lazy already.
 
Or realize that the State Gov'ts and Fed can work together as equals, and more evenly distribute power over a greater area than in Washington, D.C. like where it is currently concentrated.

Nobody here in this topic really has a problem with State Government doing it because they have more "control" over it. Federal and State programs tend to have massive issues such as the Federal Government short changing the payer States (States in which taxpayers pay more then they get in benefits).

Federal Government boondoogle known as the ARC (Appalachian Regional Commission) which after 53 years and close to $50b spent and still hasn't fixed the chronic poverty issues in the Appalachian region (I grew up in this area).
 
No one I have ever talked to has minded government helping the profoundly handicapped...ever...never ever.

But exactly what is a handicap? What if they have a sub 70 IQ, thats considered retarded by most. What if someone is ADD or ADHD isn't that a handicap when it comes to being valuable on the job? What about people who simply don't feel good most of the time, like they constantly have more than a normal amount of aches and pains.

Or people who get migraines headaches? A past landlord of mine would leave his office mid afternoon everyday because his migraines were so bad. Now if that guy hadn't have been born rich (he managed his mothers properties), he wouldn't have been able to hold a full time job.

What about people who just don't have much "get up and go" in them. I have a couple of friends who seem to be constantly energy-less, they both hold decent jobs, but I have a feeling that they have those jobs only because of loyalties and friendships. If they were to loose those jobs and have to change employers, I bet neither of them would last more than a few months at a more demanding employer. Personally, I frequently take stimulants to get going at work.

How about people who are chronically depressed? That's an illness, some people can't hardly even get up out of bed due to depression. About a year ago I fired a young man for serious attendance problems at work, after letting him go he told me that he had "been depressed a lot". Is that a valid excuse for not going to work? In 2009 I had an employee clock in at work, then he clocked right back out and told a co-worker that he had to go home and take care of his sick child. He did go home, but he went home to hang himself. He had been fighting depression for several months. Is depression or any other type of mental illness a handicap? I assume that most of us are mentally ill, it's just a matter of degree. where do we draw that line?

I'm not trying to advocate for anything in any direction, but exactly where do we draw the line for the purposes of our "saftey net system"? Arn't many poor people poor because of some sort of unrecognized handicap or marginally recognized handicap?

Maybe "lazy" is actually a physical or mental or emotional illness that could be or should be treated by a doctor of some sort. I dunno.

well i do have a bad case of it
 
The answer to all of this is the obvious conclusion that supporting individuals who are not employees is not an appropriate role for government. This question can't be answered because it is a social question, not an appropriate governmental question. I think society should do what it takes to take care of the disabled but not with federal government.
 
If only the Right would realize how disgustingly unsympathetic and inconsiderate it is being by depriving people of communal assistance.

Communal assistance and government assistance are not the same thing.
 
Having a brother-in-law that is a drug addict I can tell you it indeed harms others. It takes a heavy toll on his siblings and mother. A lot of stress on the family members and the person is a leech on them.

He can only be a leech if they allow him to be. They make the choice to allow him to affect them such, even if they feel they don't have a choice. And while there may be a lot of emotional toil such can come from any action such as choice of life mate. Do we then make life mate choices illegal?
 
But exactly what is a handicap?

This topic is near and dear to me. I have a son who is medically and legally disabled and I can tell you that they are two different definitions. People who run around saying that too many people are abusing disabled status within the system are obviously ignorant of how the system works. It is incredibly difficult to get disabled status with the government. The number of hoops you have to jump through and the number of times you will get denied and have to appeal is astounding. A lot of people have to be basically dying or severely maimed to get disabled status in any meaningful period of time. I was shocked when I moved to Canada... it's even harder to get status up here. It took us over a year and 3 appeals to restore my son's disabled status, which he had from early adolescence in the U.S.

There is also a difference between disabled status and disabled benefits. There are people with disabilities who aren't always dysfunctional. For example, people with MS can go through periods where they cannot function at all for indefinite periods of time, and during those periods they would receive benefits. Yet during their remission periods they are productive members of society, but are still considered disabled in status because their condition could strike again at any time. But maybe during remission they don't receive benefits because their income doesn't qualify them.

You're disabled if you have a physical or mental condition that prevents you from functioning at normal levels. Functionality is defined many different ways, medically. It's also subjective in some cases. One person with autism may be able to hold a job and do all the "normal" things society expects, yet they are still functioning at a cognitively different level from the rest of society. Another autistic person may need a constant caregiver. The same is true across many conditions. Some people have way higher pain tolerance than others. Some people feel a lot more mental anguish over the health status than others. There are many factors. One person with migraines might look at another and say, "Why are you on welfare? I have migraines and I go to work! You should too." But maybe the other person is knocked flat by the pain. It's hard to equivocate. Maybe that person with a 70 IQ has zero social skills but they just happen to have a functional skill that lets them keep a job, yet they need a live in care giver for other things. Who's to judge?

You could have doctors agree that you are disabled but without proper agency to go through the government rigmarole, you may never get that acknowledgment from the government. Also? Most government disability benefits are a pittance. Once again the idea that people abusing welfare are somehow living it up is really mythological.

It's sad to the see the ableists come into debates and talk about what a drain on the system the disabled are, as if they are medically qualified to judge. I can understand people who have a grudge against those who are lazy and don't work, and just want to milk welfare, but we should not be turning veterans and disabled people into political pariahs so we can create talking points. It's not fair. They are one aspect of our society who deserve extra compassion, and I guarantee that abusers of the system are rare. Most really need it.
 
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