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Depressingly low rates

Interesting.

Here I was thinking I was I was saving money for a "rainy day." For things like my eventual retirement, unexpected emergency expenses, the ability to make purchases without going into debt, etc.

I never realized that spending everything I make, going into lifetime debt, and pandering to a consumerist mindset were social obligations to stimulate the economy. :roll:

I think you still believe in Reagan's "voodoo ecomonics" otherwise known as "trickle-down economics." Well, the top 1% have gotten massively richer, and we have yet to see how any of that amassed personal wealth has trickled down to the rest of us.

I'm not suggesting that you spend everything you make, I'm just suggesting that you INVEST your money, instead of saving it. There is a difference.

Investments can make a good ROI even when interest rates are low, but of course investing wisely takes a little more effort and risk than simply saving. Quite honestly, saving adds no value to the macro economy, while investing can add quite a bit of value. Savers don't deserve a high ROI, they don't do anything to earn it. Investors do.
 
I'm not suggesting that you spend everything you make, I'm just suggesting that you INVEST your money, instead of saving it. There is a difference.

Investments can make a good ROI even when interest rates are low, but of course investing wisely takes a little more effort and risk than simply saving. Quite honestly, saving adds no value to the macro economy, while investing can add quite a bit of value. Savers don't deserve a high ROI, they don't do anything to earn it. Investors do.

Well thank you for deciding what is in my best interests. Much appreciated, NOT!

I don't care what you think savings does or does not do. My purpose in opting to save is to allow me ready access to my money while at the same time allowing me to accrue some small (actually miniscule) profit and security.

If the economy needs "stimulating" then my suggestion is you focus on getting those multi-billionaires and trillionaires to invest in more industrial, and production businesses providing a massive increase in good paying jobs here in the USA, while producing durable, high quality goods.

That will serve to reduce consumer debt AND strengthen our economy.
 
Well thank you for deciding what is in my best interests. Much appreciated, NOT!

I don't care what you think savings does or does not do. My purpose in opting to save is to allow me ready access to my money while at the same time allowing me to accrue some small (actually miniscule) profit and security.

That's perfectly fine, but don't whine that you aren't making any money on your savings when you aren't willing to do anything productive with it. Those who believe that they should just get money for nothing, whether it be from interest on savings, welfare or inheritance are all cut from the same entitlement cloth.

If the economy needs "stimulating" then my suggestion is you focus on getting those multi-billionaires and trillionaires to invest in more industrial, and production businesses providing a massive increase in good paying jobs here in the USA, while producing durable, high quality goods.

Generally, billionares are already pretty much fully invested in productive endevors. That's why they became billionares. No one has ever "saved" their way to a billion dollars.

That will serve to reduce consumer debt AND strengthen our economy.

Like it or not, right or wrong, the system that we have is debt driven. Money is created by the creation of debt, and money is the grease that keeps wealth creation going. No business is going to produce anything if they don't think they can make a buck from it.
 
That's perfectly fine, but don't whine that you aren't making any money on your savings when you aren't willing to do anything productive with it. Those who believe that they should just get money for nothing, whether it be from interest on savings, welfare or inheritance are all cut from the same entitlement cloth.

Don't accuse me of "whining" when I was merely stating a historical fact. :shrug:

Generally, billionares are already pretty much fully invested in productive endevors. That's why they became billionares. No one has ever "saved" their way to a billion dollars.

Red Herring. I never tied their "billions" with savings, merely with a failure to invest in the types of businesses that generate more work for the rest of us rather than simply more personal profit, thus maintaining their wealthy lifestyles. Work for the rest of us means more money to spend on all those goodies being produced and thus more stimulation for our own economy. :shrug:

Like it or not, right or wrong, the system that we have is debt driven. Money is created by the creation of debt, and money is the grease that keeps wealth creation going. No business is going to produce anything if they don't think they can make a buck from it.

I disagree. That happens to be the system now, and IMO it is a BAD system as far as I am concerned. :shrugs:

Three shrugs means you really haven't made any point.
 
Don't accuse me of "whining" when I was merely stating a historical fact. :shrug:

Interest rates tend to follow the inflation rate. So when inflation is low, i-rates are low, and when inflation is high, i-rates are high. For a good many years, inflation has been sub 3% with a couple of deflationary years. Todays i-rates aren't really that far from the historical norm considering our low inflation rate.


The way I figure it, interest is the price that we pay (or receive) for borrowing/lending money. Things that are rare, or which are expensive to produce, tend to have low prices. Money can be created in nearly infinite quantities, at virtually no cost. It's simply not rare or expensive to produce and thus doesn't warrant a high price.

I disagree. That happens to be the system now, and IMO it is a BAD system as far as I am concerned. :shrugs:

Three shrugs means you really haven't made any point.

I don't blame you for thinking that low interest rates are bad, or that our monetary system which is based upon debt is bad, seeing how you are a saver. But public policy shouldn't be designed just to benefit a small percent of our population who just want it to be a certain way.

And I don't disagree that it's kinda whacky that our monetary system is based upon debt, rather than being based upon production. But then again, if you think that you should get paid just because you chose to have savings, you are desiring to benefit from a debt based economy, so you are as much a part of the problem as anyone else.
 
What was the latest thinking on the forums with regards to investing?

So instead of hiding money in a mattress, we purchase in index fund. This purchases shares in public companies.
This money does not directly go to the company bottom line, it doesn't necessarily get invested IN a productive business does it?
Why Do Companies Care About Their Stock Prices? | Investopedia

I suppose the question is, given the absolutely enormous amount of money in that system (shares, funds, etc.), and the enormous size and growth (bubble?) of the finance sector, how does this utilization of money actually compare to savings, or to literal investment in business infrastructure or growth, or buying material goods, etc.
 
What was the latest thinking on the forums with regards to investing?

So instead of hiding money in a mattress, we purchase in index fund. This purchases shares in public companies.
This money does not directly go to the company bottom line, it doesn't necessarily get invested IN a productive business does it?
Why Do Companies Care About Their Stock Prices? | Investopedia

I suppose the question is, given the absolutely enormous amount of money in that system (shares, funds, etc.), and the enormous size and growth (bubble?) of the finance sector, how does this utilization of money actually compare to savings, or to literal investment in business infrastructure or growth, or buying material goods, etc.

Yup, I see what you saying. I dunno the answer, but I've often wondered if maybe neither savers or investors or any sort of financier has any real economic value. Consumers create demand, entrapanures satisfy that demand, everyone else is either just a common worker (not that being a worker isn't important) or a skimmer (skimming wealth created by others).
 
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