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Child Care is Out of Reach for Working Families Earning the Minimum Wage

Fundamentally the truism is that 'you get more of the behavior that you subsidize', and this issue with alleged adults procreating without the mean to properly raise and care for the children is the negative behavior that needs to be curbed.
 
eohrnberger said:
Fundamentally the truism is that 'you get more of the behavior that you subsidize', and this issue with alleged adults procreating without the mean to properly raise and care for the children is the negative behavior that needs to be curbed.
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Explain that to countries with extremely generous benefits and WAAAY less child poverty. Probably the damn socialists!
 
David_N said:
Explain that to countries with extremely generous benefits and WAAAY less child poverty. Probably the damn socialists!
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You are free to move to those countries that have implemented the policies you are so supportive of.
 
David_N said:
:lol:
It's always the same from conservatives.
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yeah

isnt it a shame we cling to things like personal responsibility

and bettering oneself

and good work ethics

and having ambition to climb out of holes that sometimes we didnt dig, but we find ourselves in

yeah...i can see how democrats and progressives find us repulsive at times

we dont play the victims....and usually find victimhood to be a completely false dichotomy
 
David_N said:
This isn't surprising, but it really exemplifies a problem, a lack of decent child care for low wage workers.
Child Care is Out of Reach for Working Families Earning the Minimum Wage | Economic Policy Institute

More at the link.
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OK, the "recommended" amount of income to spend on childcare is 10%. In order to achieve that then 10 MW workers (with one child each) would have to pay another (MW?) childcare worker to watch their 10 children. Is that a realistic solution?
 
gdgyva said:
yeah isnt it a shame we cling to things like personal responsibility and bettering oneself and good work ethics and having ambition to climb out of holes that sometimes we didnt dig, but we find ourselves in yeah...i can see how democrats and progressives find us repulsive at times. we dont play the victims....and usually find victimhood to be a completely false dichotomy
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Oh Cons play the victim card all the time. SoCONs are the worse, the Christian persecution crap. A 'war' on Christmas.

CONs love 'personal responsibility' for others, not so much for themselves when they make a mistake- then others caused a failed business, laid off, retirement fund collapse. Oh, don't forget the bad ol' EPA, and 'gubmint' red tape... :roll:

Many young couples find themselves working VERY hard, some with two part-time jobs because many service industry jobs don't want to pay benefits. But the wage doesn't go too far. They have plenty of ambition, but 7.75 an hour and 30 hours a week just doesn't cover college, childcare, rent, car, food...

Personally I have no trouble with part of my taxes going to provide basic health and childcare to all citizens. it is penny wise, pound foolish to not ensure families have a healthy diet, heath care for them and their kids that creates new citizens capable of learning and taking advantage of education/employment opportunities.

'Personal responsibility' is CON for - "I got mine, to hell with you!" :peace
 
but 7.75 an hour and 30 hours a week just doesn't cover college, childcare, rent, car, food...

so they have zero skills

whose fault is that?

they chose to drop out of school....they chose to have kids.....they made decisions.....some of them were bad ones

maybe they need a second job @ another 30 hours a week.....and to sleep less....

maybe they need to move back home, and save money while they go to school

i dunno....i didnt make their life that way....they did

they dug the hole...time to climb out like adults, and stop bitching that life isnt fair

i have yet to meet anyone who if they really wanted to, couldnt better their life
 
notquiteright said:
Oh Cons play the victim card all the time. SoCONs are the worse, the Christian persecution crap. A 'war' on Christmas.

CONs love 'personal responsibility' for others, not so much for themselves when they make a mistake- then others caused a failed business, laid off, retirement fund collapse. Oh, don't forget the bad ol' EPA, and 'gubmint' red tape... :roll:

Many young couples find themselves working VERY hard, some with two part-time jobs because many service industry jobs don't want to pay benefits. But the wage doesn't go too far. They have plenty of ambition, but 7.75 an hour and 30 hours a week just doesn't cover college, childcare, rent, car, food...

Personally I have no trouble with part of my taxes going to provide basic health and childcare to all citizens. it is penny wise, pound foolish to not ensure families have a healthy diet, heath care for them and their kids that creates new citizens capable of learning and taking advantage of education/employment opportunities.

'Personal responsibility' is CON for - "I got mine, to hell with you!" :peace
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yet we give more to charity than liberals do interesting that proves you wrong.
 
ludin said:
yet we give more to charity than liberals do interesting that proves you wrong.
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Would that be true if the tax break was removed? :confused:

I'd say the best you can claim is CONs use the tax write-off more than the Libs.

So why do you think CONs have no problem giving to the poor on a tax form but not with taxes? :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Would that be true if the tax break was removed? :confused:

I'd say the best you can claim is CONs use the tax write-off more than the Libs.

So why do you think CONs have no problem giving to the poor on a tax form but not with taxes? :peace
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this doesn't refute what I said things for the red herring argument.
 
ludin said:
this doesn't refute what I said things for the red herring argument.
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More CON deflection...

Why do CONs give more to TAX DEDUCTIBLE charities but fight against tax funded assistance?

All you've 'proven' is CONs never met a tax deduction they didn't like, even if it works against their 'personal responsibility' mantra... :2wave:
 
Excon said:
No, what it exemplifies is poor planning on the idiots part.

Society should not be supporting the poor planning of idiots.
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Perhaps we shouldn't, but there is human life on the line and I think we are morally obligated to that. Much rather help working families gain access to the tools necessary to help raise their kids in a good environment than huck them out onto the street.
 
notquiteright said:
More CON deflection...

Why do CONs give more to TAX DEDUCTIBLE charities but fight against tax funded assistance?

All you've 'proven' is CONs never met a tax deduction they didn't like, even if it works against their 'personal responsibility' mantra... :2wave:
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there is no deflection except on your part.
the fact is that republicans give more to charity than liberals do.

your whole tax deduction thing is simply a distraction argument.
it is worthless.

because we don't believe in stealing and giving to other people. we believe in giving of your own free will to help people.
however if you want to give more of your money to the government to help out with these things.

https://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html
here is the link so you and your liberal buddies that think the government should have more of your money
can freely give it.

you can even write on the check what the money is for and it will go into that budget.
so you and bob here can give all of your own money you want to the government.
 
Ikari said:
Perhaps we shouldn't, but there is human life on the line and I think we are morally obligated to that. Much rather help working families gain access to the tools necessary to help raise their kids in a good environment than huck them out onto the street.
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I agree but the current system doesn't allow us to help them the way they need to be helped. instead it holds them back and punishes them for attempting to get ahead.
also what the OP is talking about already exists. if you are on assistance and need childcare you get subsidized childcare.

I mean these people get
free housing
free food
free childcare
reduced utility payments
and the list goes on.

what the heck more does the OP want?
I work my butt off to support my family but because I have a good job and got an education I get the middle finger and told too bad.
then we have the OP here that says people need to pay more.
 
notquiteright said:
Would that be true if the tax break was removed? :confused:

I'd say the best you can claim is CONs use the tax write-off more than the Libs.

So why do you think CONs have no problem giving to the poor on a tax form but not with taxes? :peace
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because with our charities , we can control a little bit of what happens to OUR money

i can see the good my money does at the center in DC....i can see the people it helps, and i have seen the families move from one point to another

and these are causes that are close to our heart in one form or another

maybe they are church related, or illness related, or whatever....but there is a reason why we choose to give to that organization

with taxes...it is a BLACK HOLE...it goes in, and we never see any good out of it

all we get is a politician next year telling us they need even more

hope that helps on what the differences are....at least for me
 
gdgyva said:
because with our charities , we can control a little bit of what happens to OUR money. i can see the good my money does at the center in DC....i can see the people it helps, and i have seen the families move from one point to another. and these are causes that are close to our heart in one form or another. maybe they are church related, or illness related, or whatever....but there is a reason why we choose to give to that organization with taxes...it is a BLACK HOLE...it goes in, and we never see any good out of it. all we get is a politician next year telling us they need even more. hope that helps on what the differences are....at least for me
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CON game... most give to rather broad foundations, umbrella organizations, places you have NO idea where it is going. You can pretend the majority of CONs give to highly dovetailed charities but it is pure speculation.

The money used in public assistance isn't some black hole... more like the difference between millions of working poor continuing to work and having to stop and rely totally on public assistance.

NO BODY is 100% happy with where their taxes go... Libs can point to pork barrel projects they can't stand as well.

So ball park your CON charitable nature... 10% of your income? that would be 10 grand for me, no way I'd ever do that, not even with the tax write off... so what do you give- to a charity and not just on Sundays. Do you write your generosity off on your taxes? I don't- it is not about a tax dodge for me. What cahrity do you pour your CON bucks into? I use the United Way.

Now the issue Ludin and I had going was his claim that CONs 'give more' to charities than Libs. The only metric I've ever seen cited is the TAX DEDUCTION numbers... dunno about non court ordered community service- I was a Jaycee until I aged out.

Nice try but you use a CON dodge to hate on the working poor while making a very unsubstantiated claim of 'directed' charities. :peace
 
all in all I am still not sure what the OP is complaining about they already get child care subsidies.
if the prices are increasing that means there is a demand for childcare workers.

more workers equals more cost.
plus there is childcare certifications and everything else that has to occur.
 
notquiteright said:
CON game... most give to rather broad foundations, umbrella organizations, places you have NO idea where it is going. You can pretend the majority of CONs give to highly dovetailed charities but it is pure speculation.

The money used in public assistance isn't some black hole... more like the difference between millions of working poor continuing to work and having to stop and rely totally on public assistance.

NO BODY is 100% happy with where their taxes go... Libs can point to pork barrel projects they can't stand as well.

So ball park your CON charitable nature... 10% of your income? that would be 10 grand for me, no way I'd ever do that, not even with the tax write off... so what do you give- to a charity and not just on Sundays. Do you write your generosity off on your taxes? I don't- it is not about a tax dodge for me. What cahrity do you pour your CON bucks into? I use the United Way.

Now the issue Ludin and I had going was his claim that CONs 'give more' to charities than Libs. The only metric I've ever seen cited is the TAX DEDUCTION numbers... dunno about non court ordered community service- I was a Jaycee until I aged out.

Nice try but you use a CON dodge to hate on the working poor while making a very unsubstantiated claim of 'directed' charities. :peace
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there is no issue it is a fact. have a nice day.
 
David_N said:
I already do, through the form of taxes going to assistance programs, and I donate my own money to other groups as well. Ugh, you just don't get it. It doesn't freaking matter if you believe the parents are idiots, if you believe all poor parents are morons, if you believe it's their fault and they don't need assistance.. THE KIDS ARE HERE. The right wing cares more about a zygote then a 5 year old child because the mother is a "deadbeat welfare slut who gets food stamps."
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His point is that we need FAR more focus on the root cause of the problem. It's like having an arterial bleed - the left wants more bandages, the right wants to stop the source of the bleeding and educate people about proper kitchen knife use. Yes, there's going to be bleeding while the surgery is done, and yes, the effects of the education won't be seen for a decade or two, but that's how you stop the problem from getting worse.
 
David_N said:
Oh, of course they do, but it's a fact that kids in poverty struggle, due to many factors, such as a rough home life, not knowing where the next meal is coming from (Quite a few kids rely on free school lunches to get by), needing to work to help the family make ends meet (Teenagers), etc..
Calling parents idiots because their kids are poor really shows the blatant hatred of libertarians.
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suggesting all libertarians hate the poor based on one poster is no better.
 
It's not just that it's out of reach for those making low pay, it's that mothers don't even have a rational reason to work unless pay approaches median salary levels.

Welfare policy will always struggle to avoid work disincentives as that is basically a problem inherent to welfare, but it might be easier to justify smoothing out work disincentives for poor families needing child care if so much social spending wasn't going to already-well-off seniors. We continue pretending seniors need all this help when, on average, they are by leaps and bounds the least in need of "help" of any age group.
 
David_N said:
Yes, a rough life that people shouldn't have to experience, tell me, what is our child poverty compared to other developed countries?
Child poverty in the U.S. is among the worst in the developed world - The Washington Post
Oh please, don't give me the you shouldn't have had kids crap. The KIDS ARE HERE. Oh, it'd be nice if the kids had access to decent child care, a good education..
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Have you ever looked at ppp average income in other countries?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

So where is the problem with 30.000 dollars?
 
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