Page 12 of 35 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 345

Thread: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

  1. #111
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    9,017

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    It is because you view "help" as a reward, it isn't.
    What "help" are you talking about? Putting money in people's pockets? That sure is a reward. Or maybe you don't like that word. Positive reinforcement? Appetitive stimulus? Subsidy? Take your pick. If demonstrating helplessness is a behavior that elicits help, and help ($) is a pleasant thing, then you are having an overall encouraging effect on the behavior (demonstrating helplessness) that elicits that response ($).

    IT helps the overall economy and helps the rich.
    That's true, "help" (i.e. putting money in people's pockets) does help the rich. The rich don't need this extra help.

  2. #112
    Guru
    JP Hochbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,392
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    And you want to take away their freedom to leave to pursue better opportunity elsewhere?
    European Exodus Reverses Well-Worn Migration Patterns - WSJ.com
    so you combat people leaving because of austerity with an anecdotal article of a single couple leaving because of the housing crisis.

    You came to a war with a bow and arrow against me, who has satellites and drones. Not gonna win this one bud.
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

  3. #113
    Guru
    JP Hochbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,392
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    What "help" are you talking about? Putting money in people's pockets? That sure is a reward. Or maybe you don't like that word. Positive reinforcement? Appetitive stimulus? Subsidy? Take your pick. If demonstrating helplessness is a behavior that elicits help, and help ($) is a pleasant thing, then you are having an overall encouraging effect on the behavior (demonstrating helplessness) that elicits that response ($).



    That's true, "help" (i.e. putting money in people's pockets) does help the rich. The rich don't need this extra help.
    The only word I ever use is aggregate demand.
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

  4. #114
    Guru
    JP Hochbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,392
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Not when the money is coming from the taxpayer. That only works when the homeless has an income.
    It doesn't HAVE to come from the taxpayer. I just partake in the raising taxes debate because taxing the rich has shown no aggregate effects on growth and productivity.

    If it was up to me people should know by now that I support a job guanatee bill that replaces unemployment insurance and welfare.
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

  5. #115
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 11:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    It doesn't HAVE to come from the taxpayer. I just partake in the raising taxes debate because taxing the rich has shown no aggregate effects on growth and productivity.

    If it was up to me people should know by now that I support a job guanatee bill that replaces unemployment insurance and welfare.
    How childish. Thank you, have a good afternoon.

  6. #116
    Guru
    JP Hochbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,392
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    How childish. Thank you, have a good afternoon.
    Ah ad hominems, again, why do people debate if they keep on just believing what they want to believe?
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

  7. #117
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    9,017

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    The only word I ever use is aggregate demand.
    Then you're ignoring altogether the reinforcing effect that the policies have on individual behavior, and had no basis for objecting to the other post that regarded "help" as a reward. It's easier to support your statements if you will only look at it through a short-term macroeconomic theoretical lens, and ignore long-term cultural and behavioral unintended consequences.

    A more honest response than saying "It is because you view "help" as a reward, it isn't." would have been to instead say "I don't what it rewards, the only goal is stimulate aggregate demand by any means necessary."

  8. #118
    Guru
    JP Hochbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,392
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Then you're ignoring altogether the reinforcing effect that the policies have on individual behavior, and had no basis for objecting to the other post that regarded "help" as a reward. It's easier to support your statements if you will only look at it through a short-term macroeconomic theoretical lens, and ignore long-term cultural and behavioral unintended consequences.

    A more honest response than saying "It is because you view "help" as a reward, it isn't." would have been to instead say "I don't what it rewards, the only goal is stimulate aggregate demand by any means necessary."
    Behavioral economic theories are for the most part defunct in proof and don't hold true in reality.

    "Behavioral economists Dan Airely and Nobel laureate Daniel Khaneman have uncovered strong evidence that rational decision making is often an illusion. That is not say people don’t behave differently when considering money issues. Dan Ariely found that just thinking about money makes people more selfish, self-reliant and less charitable."

    Financial Services, Gambling, & Behavioral Economics: Busting The Myth Of Consumer Rationality | GreenBook
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

  9. #119
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    9,017

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    Behavioral economic theories are for the most part defunct in proof and don't hold true in reality.

    "Behavioral economists Dan Airely and Nobel laureate Daniel Khaneman have uncovered strong evidence that rational decision making is often an illusion. That is not say people don’t behave differently when considering money issues. Dan Ariely found that just thinking about money makes people more selfish, self-reliant and less charitable."

    Financial Services, Gambling, & Behavioral Economics: Busting The Myth Of Consumer Rationality | GreenBook
    Again with sweeping dismissals to protect your theories. One study eradicates all relevance of behavioral economics?

    Critics have pointed out that behavioral economics is not a unified theory, but is instead a collection of tools or ideas. This is true. It is also true of neoclassical economics. A worker might rely on a "single" tool-- say, a power drill-- but also use a wide range of drill bits to do various jobs. Is this one tool or many? As Arrow (1986) pointed out, economic models do not derive much predictive power from the single tool of utility-maximization. Precision comes from the drill bits—such as time-additive separable utility in asset pricing including a child's utility into a parent’s utility function to explain bequests, rationality of expectations for some applications and adaptive expectations for others, homothetic preferences for commodity bundles, price-taking in some markets and game-theoretic reasoning in others, and so forth.

    For example, one recent model (Benabou & Tirole, 1999) derives overconfidence from hyperbolic time discounting. Agents, at time 0, face a choice at time 1 between a task that requires an immediate exertion of effort and a payoff delayed till time 2 which depends on their level of some skill. Agents know that, due to hyperbolic time discounting, some tasks that are momentarily attractive at time 0 will become unattractive at time 1. Overconfidence arises because they persuade themselves that their skill level – i.e., the return from the task – will be greater than it actually will be so as to motivate themselves to do the task at time 1. There may, however, be far more plausible explanations for the same phenomenon, such as that people derive utility directly from self-esteem. Indeed the same authors later proposed precisely such a model (Benabou & Tirole, 2000).

    Sometimes these specifications are even contradictory— for example, pure self-interest is abandoned in models of bequests, but restored in models of life-cycle savings; and risk-aversion is typically assumed in equity markets and risk-preference in betting markets. Such contradictions are like the "contradiction" between a Phillips-head and a regular screwdriver: They are different tools for different jobs. The goal of behavioral economics is to develop better tools that, in some cases, can do both jobs at once.

    Economists like to point out the natural division of labor between scientific disciplines: Psychologists should stick to individual minds, and economists to behavior in games, markets, and economies. But the division of labor is only efficient if there is effective coordination, and all too often economists fail to conduct intellectual trade with those who have a comparative advantage in understanding individual human behavior. All economics rests on some sort of implicit psychology. The only question is whether the implicit psychology in economics is good psychology or bad psychology. We think it is simply unwise, and inefficient, to do economics without paying some attention to good psychology.

    We should finally stress that behavioral economics is not meant to be a separate approach in the long run. It is more like a school of thought or a style of modeling, which should lose special semantic status when it is widely taught and used. Our hope is that behavioral models will gradually replace simplified models based on stricter rationality, as the behavioral models prove to be tractable and useful in explaining anomalies and making surprising predictions. Then strict rationality assumptions now considered indispensable in economics will be seen as useful special cases (much as Cobb-Douglas production functions or expected value maximization are now)—namely, they help illustrate a point which is truly established only by more general, behaviorally-grounded theory. LINK

  10. #120
    Guru
    JP Hochbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,392
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Why shouldn't I support progressive taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Again with sweeping dismissals to protect your theories. One study eradicates all relevance of behavioral economics?
    Did you read what I posted and what you then posted?

    I said most behavioral economics are defunct, not all, so no I didn't eradicate all relevance of behavioral economists, in fact I posted theories on behavioral economics, lol.

    Then you posted several paragraphs, one in which is in line with exactly what I posted:

    "All economics rests on some sort of implicit psychology. The only question is whether the implicit psychology in economics is good psychology or bad psychology. We think it is simply unwise, and inefficient, to do economics without paying some attention to good psychology.....

    Our hope is that behavioral models will gradually replace simplified models based on stricter rationality, as the behavioral models prove to be tractable and useful in explaining anomalies and making surprising predictions."

    It essentially says that behavioral economics is useless in modeling unless we track it and find it to be true.
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

Page 12 of 35 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •