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Teaching Economics to Liberals - Class is in Session

Still avoiding the question. You do realize that your "example" is the sweeping generalization logical fallacy. Prove that people in general will act rationally. Until you do, your theory is not worth the bandwidth it uses.

Heh. Fine. Maybe you are so exceptional. Listen up everybody...send me $200 and I will spend it in your best interest. I will use it to promote the Magna Carta movement. Does anybody want to send me $200 via paypal? Trust me...it will be worth it!
 
Heh. Fine. Maybe you are so exceptional. Listen up everybody...send me $200 and I will spend it in your best interest. I will use it to promote the Magna Carta movement. Does anybody want to send me $200 via paypal? Trust me...it will be worth it!

Sweeping generalization logical fallacy. Keep digging.
 
Why didn't you send me $200 via paypal?

Still can't answer the question or avoid logical fallacies, eh? So, how long have you been spewing this illogical theory that you can't prove?
 
LOL...you already proved my theory! You're a person. I asked you to send me $200 via paypal...and you didn't. Clearly you behaved rationally with your hard-earned money. Are you really going to say that you're so exceptional in this regard? I WISH!!!

So you proved that we are a somewhat rational group... What about the millions of dollars spent on lottery tickets each week? Are this people rational with their Allocation of their money? How about my mother in law that sends thousands of dollars a year to Benny Hinn and yet cannot make her electric bill most months? How about the millions of people that but crap on infomercials?

With your system, no manager could plan anything. How can you budget your money if you have no idea how much money you were going to get? Your plan would be a train wreck.
 
It may frighten children. It probably does.

Conservatism has no political party. Both of the major political parties tend to be statists. But, as a general rule the Republican party is closest.
If there was a Conservative party I would be apart of it.
Children? Hardly, although while we're on the subject of adolescent tendencies I'd consider broadbrushing anyone who disagrees with you in a negative light as both a childish tactic and a great indicator of a thought process that has yet to mature.
 
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Still can't answer the question or avoid logical fallacies, eh? So, how long have you been spewing this illogical theory that you can't prove?
You didn't send me $200 via paypal because you have BETTER things to spend that $200 on. The question is...what are you going to spend that $200 on?

We know that I would have spent your $200 promoting the Magna Carta movement. How much do you value the Magna Carta movement? Not at all...right? Therefore, if you had irrationally sent me the $200 then, from your perspective, it would have been wasted! All that time and effort you spent earning that money would have been for nothing. That's a travesty right?

So what are you going to spend your $200 on? Maybe it's going to help pay your rent? Or maybe it's going to help you pay for a new computer? I don't have the foggiest idea what you are going to spend your money on. But what I do know...is that you are going to try and get the most bang for your buck. This is the universal economic principle.

Everybody wants the most bang for their buck...which is exactly why you didn't send me your $200. Resources are efficiently allocated when individuals have the freedom to choose how they use their limited time/money. Therefore, if we want public funds to be efficiently allocated then we should give taxpayers the freedom to choose which government organizations they give their hard-earned taxes to.

The question then becomes...why wouldn't you want public funds to be efficiently allocated?
 
You didn't send me $200 via paypal because you have BETTER things to spend that $200 on. The question is...what are you going to spend that $200 on?

Your proposition had nothing to do with my challenge.

We know that I would have spent your $200 promoting the Magna Carta movement. How much do you value the Magna Carta movement? Not at all...right? Therefore, if you had irrationally sent me the $200 then, from your perspective, it would have been wasted! All that time and effort you spent earning that money would have been for nothing. That's a travesty right?

This is ANOTHER sweeping generalization logical fallacy. Let's see if you can find it.

So what are you going to spend your $200 on? Maybe it's going to help pay your rent? Or maybe it's going to help you pay for a new computer? I don't have the foggiest idea what you are going to spend your money on. But what I do know...is that you are going to try and get the most bang for your buck. This is the universal economic principle.

Thank you. In this brief comment, you have proven why, not only does your theory have no value, but why you do not understand economic theory.

Everybody wants the most bang for their buck...which is exactly why you didn't send me your $200. Resources are efficiently allocated when individuals have the freedom to choose how they use their limited time/money. Therefore, if we want public funds to be efficiently allocated then we should give taxpayers the freedom to choose which government organizations they give their hard-earned taxes to.

False premise. Prove that resources are efficiently allocated when individuals have the freedom to choose how they use their limited time/money. And remember, we are talking LARGE scale. I keep asking you similar questions, you you keep being unable to prove your positions. Why is that?

The question then becomes...why wouldn't you want public funds to be efficiently allocated?

Who says I don't?
 
So you proved that we are a somewhat rational group... What about the millions of dollars spent on lottery tickets each week? Are this people rational with their Allocation of their money? How about my mother in law that sends thousands of dollars a year to Benny Hinn and yet cannot make her electric bill most months? How about the millions of people that but crap on infomercials?

We're talking about taxpayers here...the people that make enough money where they have to pay taxes... doctors... lawyers... professors... businessmen. In other words we're talking about professionals. A fool and his money are soon parted...and given that taxpayers have to pay taxes...they are not that foolish.

With your system, no manager could plan anything. How can you budget your money if you have no idea how much money you were going to get? Your plan would be a train wreck.

Do you think companies and non-profit organizations know how much money they are going to get? Either way...if they can manage then so can government organizations.
 
So I'm not allowed to call somebody out on their economic ignorance? I should just keep my perspective to my own threads? Maybe we should all just keep our own perspectives to our own threads?

Why would that be a stupid idea? If you can figure out why that would be a stupid idea then you're well on your way to understanding the value of free-trade.

All Mega had to do was not respond to my post. It's as simple as that. My goal was to just let everybody know that Mega doesn't know what he's talking about in terms of economics. It's really important that people know that. Mega was simply pissed because I pointed that out to everybody.

My "theory" is an extremely effective tool to quickly highlight people's economic ignorance. If people do not understand why their perspectives should matter in the public sector...then clearly they do not understand how economics works. You can't efficiently allocate resources without integrating people's perspectives into the distribution of resources. Giving taxpayers the freedom to choose which government organizations they give their taxes to would allow 150 million of our most productive citizens to determine the distribution of public funds. That we would all benefit from pragmatarianism is not a "theory"...it's a simple economic fact.
Isn't that what we already do?
Isn't that what we elect 538 congressman to do every 2 or 6 years? You really want 150 mil direct decision makers?
That, of course, also contrary to your "schooling" on that other board.
You call congress a 'committee' as if it's a permanent or semi-permanent One-party dictatorship like a politburo.

and btw, 'caught-up' China still is a centrally planned/priced economy with resources going to industries they want developed and pricing of commodities set by the Government. (from pork to oil)
Govt also making Huge infrastructure decisions consulting no one.


If you don't believe that you can spend your money better than I can spend your money...then we can really easily put it to the test. Just put your money where your mouth is by sending me $200 via paypal. Trust me...I'll spend it in your best interest by using it to help promote the Magna Carta movementRL].

Why aren't you going to send me the $200? Because you know for a fact that you can spend it "better" than I can. "Better" depends entirely on our own unique perspectives. You can spend your taxes "better" than congress can because you know your values better than anybody else. How could 150 million people's values not matter when it comes to the distribution of public funds?
Again, having 150 mil direct decision makers is absurd.
We elect congress as our reps to do so.
You think 'earmarks' are bad now?
You understand this is a representative democracy? and that you can't divorce "150 million" from "538"?

As a financial professional, (and mostly progressive), be glad to give even more schooling if we even get to economics. As now you're stuck on basic misunderstanding of government/civics.
 
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It is a fig leaf.

Independents have no brains and have no heart.
People who take a side generally have thought things through.

Closed mind? Straw man. Of course you already know it. As you said, Just saying.
Undisclosed lean? LOL

What you don't understand is that independants normally do take a side on almost every issue. Not all issues are just two sided though. Some have dozens of sides.

Again, all you are doing is to repeat what you heard Rush saying. If you were an independant you would have to think for yourself.
 
Your proposition had nothing to do with my challenge.

This is ANOTHER sweeping generalization logical fallacy. Let's see if you can find it.

Thank you. In this brief comment, you have proven why, not only does your theory have no value, but why you do not understand economic theory.

False premise. Prove that resources are efficiently allocated when individuals have the freedom to choose how they use their limited time/money. And remember, we are talking LARGE scale. I keep asking you similar questions, you you keep being unable to prove your positions. Why is that?

Who says I don't?

You say that I don't understand economic theory...but if we review this entire thread...not once have you corrected any of my economic concepts. You simply make claims that you continually fail to substantiate. Do you really think that I'm the only one that has noticed this?

People try and maximize their utility...and that is how resources are efficiently allocated. People strive not to have their limited resources wasted...and that is how resources are efficiently allocated. Your own behavior reveals the truth of these basic economic concepts. I asked you to paypal me $200...and you didn't. Why didn't you? Because you didn't want your limited resources wasted.

Economics is the study of scarcity. One use of a limited resource is not as good as any. Some uses are better than others. But "better" is a value judgement that entirely depends on each person's perspective. Therefore, each person is the "best" and only judge of the "best" use of their limited resources. Resources are efficiently allocated when individuals have the freedom to choose how they use their limited resources. Resources are inefficiently allocated when other people spend our money for us. This is why socialism failed and why our mixed economy substantially fails.

If we want to avoid future recessions and depressions then we would simply allow taxpayers to directly allocate their taxes.

If you dispute any of this then please correct me by substantiating your claims.
 
You say that I don't understand economic theory...but if we review this entire thread...not once have you corrected any of my economic concepts. You simply make claims that you continually fail to substantiate. Do you really think that I'm the only one that has noticed this?

What people have noticed is how slipshod your theory is. All I've done is point out the simple logical fallacies of it. You have yet to prove that people in general act rationally or efficiently or how making good choices for one's individual finances has anything to do with making good choices for the country's finances. Your "theory" is based on false premises and sweeping generalizations, none of which you have been able to refute. Others have noticed this and either followed suit, or gone into more detail regarding this. You're wedded to a failed theory. That's fine, if that's what you chose to be wedded to.

People try and maximize their utility...and that is how resources are efficiently allocated. People strive not to have their limited resources wasted...and that is how resources are efficiently allocated. Your own behavior reveals the truth of these basic economic concepts. I asked you to paypal me $200...and you didn't. Why didn't you? Because you didn't want your limited resources wasted.

False premise and sweeping generalization. AND, a non-sequitur to boot. Please demonstrate how one's good economic choices in one situation translates into a population's good economic choices for a country's overall health. Oh... there's that pesky false premise of taxpayer's rationality that you still haven't proven.

Economics is the study of scarcity. One use of a limited resource is not as good as any. Some uses are better than others. But "better" is a value judgement that entirely depends on each person's perspective. Therefore, each person is the "best" and only judge of the "best" use of their limited resources.

This assumes the individual is both privy to ALL country-wide information AND makes a rational choice with that information. The latter is your assumption which you STILL haven't proven.

Resources are efficiently allocated when individuals have the freedom to choose how they use their limited resources. Resources are inefficiently allocated when other people spend our money for us.

False premise. Are you actually going to PROVE this, or just keep saying it without substantiation?

This is why socialism failed and why our mixed economy substantially fails.

Socialism fails because no socialist society can sustain not becoming a dictatorship. Our mixed economy has not failed by any means.

If we want to avoid future recessions and depressions then we would simply allow taxpayers to directly allocate their taxes.

If we REALLY want to see failure, this is precisely what we should do. The lack of logic of you theory is here in this thread for all to see.

If you dispute any of this then please correct me by substantiating your claims.

I've demonstrated your lack of logic. You, on the otherhand have proven nothing, nor refuted anything I've said. When might we expect to see any of that?
 
False premise and sweeping generalization. AND, a non-sequitur to boot. Please demonstrate how one's good economic choices in one situation translates into a population's good economic choices for a country's overall health. Oh... there's that pesky false premise of taxpayer's rationality that you still haven't proven.

This assumes the individual is both privy to ALL country-wide information AND makes a rational choice with that information. The latter is your assumption which you STILL haven't proven.

False premise. Are you actually going to PROVE this, or just keep saying it without substantiation?

Socialism fails because no socialist society can sustain not becoming a dictatorship. Our mixed economy has not failed by any means.

If we REALLY want to see failure, this is precisely what we should do. The lack of logic of you theory is here in this thread for all to see.

I've demonstrated your lack of logic. You, on the otherhand have proven nothing, nor refuted anything I've said. When might we expect to see any of that?

Your questions and critiques really reveal your economic ignorance. Obviously nobody is perfect...which is why everybody makes mistakes. Obviously nobody has perfect information...which is also why everybody makes mistakes. Obviously we all have extremely limited perspectives...which is also why everybody makes mistakes.

So what do you do when everybody makes mistakes? You don't put all your eggs in one basket. Socialism failed because you had a committee of fallible people in charge of an entire nation's resources. Our mixed economy fails...recessions and depressions....because we allow 538 fallible people to control way too many resources.

What's the solution? Hedge our bets. We can hedge our bets simply by giving 150 million taxpayers the freedom to choose which government organizations they give their taxes to. Will they make mistakes? Of course! But they won't make mistakes with other people's money.

Regarding fallibilism...

It follows, then, that a less centralized society has the advantage of a greater diversification of its performance across a larger number of preceptors. This is because diversification here dilutes the impact of the ability, or the lack thereof, of each preceptor on the aggregate societal performance. - Raaj K. Sah, Fallibility in Human Organizations and Political Systems

Regarding partial knowledge...

The problem is thus in no way solved if we can show that all the facts, if they were known to a single mind (as we hypothetically assume them to be given to the observing economist), would uniquely determine the solution; instead we must show how a solution is produced by the interactions of people each of whom possesses only partial knowledge. To assume all the knowledge to be given to a single mind in the same manner in which we assume it to be given to us as the explaining economists is to assume the problem away and to disregard everything that is important and significant in the real world. - Hayek, The Use of Knowledge in Society

Regarding individual agency...

There is no need to prove that each individual is the only competent judge of this most advantageous use of his lands and of his labor. He alone has the particular knowledge without which the most enlightened man could only argue blindly. He alone has an experience which is all the more reliable since it is limited to a single object. He learns by repeated trials, by his successes, by his losses, and he acquires a feeling for it which is much more ingenious than the theoretical knowledge of the indifferent observer because it is stimulated by want. - Turgot, The Turgot Collection
 
Again, having 150 mil direct decision makers is absurd.
We elect congress as our reps to do so.
You think 'earmarks' are bad now?
You understand this is a representative democracy? and that you can't divorce "150 million" from "538"?

As a financial professional, (and mostly progressive), be glad to give even more schooling if we even get to economics. As now you're stuck on basic misunderstanding of government/civics.

This critique is absurd. 150 million taxpayers would be consumers. So what? Is that too many consumers making too many decisions for you to count? How many consumers make decisions in the private sector? Where's the problem?

Is there a demand for public goods? Yes...obviously. Is there a supply of public goods? Yes....government organizations supply public goods. To turn the public sector into a free-market we'd simply give taxpayers the freedom to choose which government organizations they gave their taxes to. Where's the problem?

If you had more than a basic understanding of government/civics then you'd know that congress spending our taxes has absolutely no rational economic explanation. The only explanation for congress controlling the power of the purse is historical. 1000 years ago some barons were fed up with how the king was spending their money so they took the power of purse from him. That's it. That's how congress ended up with the power of the purse.
 
Your questions and critiques really reveal your economic ignorance. Obviously nobody is perfect...which is why everybody makes mistakes. Obviously nobody has perfect information...which is also why everybody makes mistakes. Obviously we all have extremely limited perspectives...which is also why everybody makes mistakes.

So what do you do when everybody makes mistakes? You don't put all your eggs in one basket. Socialism failed because you had a committee of fallible people in charge of an entire nation's resources. Our mixed economy fails...recessions and depressions....because we allow 538 fallible people to control way too many resources.

What's the solution? Hedge our bets. We can hedge our bets simply by giving 150 million taxpayers the freedom to choose which government organizations they give their taxes to. Will they make mistakes? Of course! But they won't make mistakes with other people's money.

You STILL haven't demonstrated any proof of your false premise. Show how taxpayers would be rational/efficient in allocating money for government spending. That is the basis of your theory, one you have yet to prove.

Regarding fallibilism...

This does not prove your position. It is actually irrelevant to your position.

Regarding partial knowledge...

This does not prove your position. In actuality, it supports the opposite.

Regarding individual agency...

This does not prove your position. It harms it, significantly, and the fact that you used it to try to assist your position demonstrates that you do not understand the complexity of economic theory and how other issues such as psychology and sociology impact it.
 
If you don't believe that you can spend your money better than I can spend your money...then we can really easily put it to the test. Just put your money where your mouth is by sending me $200 via paypal...

...Why aren't you going to send me the $200? Because you know for a fact that you can spend it "better" than I can.

Setting aside the obvious disingenuity and dickishness of the rhetorical question, there's an obvious counter: you have not demonstrated that you share the same goals, so the real and effective question is actually one of "do you believe you can spend your money in a manner more beneficial to your goals as contrasted against a random and likely hostile stranger?"

If we instead looked at a situation of "you" vs. "your friend, who might offer financial or project advice on a specific issue," then actually YES, there are many cases in which such an advisor would be far, far more effective than you within the scope of that advice (for example, a friend of mine who's a chef is a great advisor for getting the most out of a trip to the grocery store, or explaining why/why not -- and when -- to pay more for certain kinds of ingredients, etc.).

So this schoolyard / nyah-nyah notion that a bunch of strangers turning down the "offer" of having you spend their money for them proves anything at all about general economic principles -- beyond demonstrating a well-grounded common distrust of likely cheats and swindlers -- is (at best) silly.

"Better" depends entirely on our own unique perspectives.

Yes and no. Yes, you choose your own goals, but once such a goal has been chosen, it is absolutely not the case that Anything Goes as far as measuring success. You might choose to view feeding and clothing yourself as more important than feeding and clothing a random stranger from another part of the world...but it does NOT follow from such a choice that the measures of success for this goal -- as identified and analyzed by the sciences of nutrition and medicine -- that you personally would be the sole and ultimate arbiter of whether or not a given option for action would be better (no quotes) or worse than another. Eating on a regular basis, for example, is definitely better (no quotes) with regards to the goal of feeding yourself than, say, playing in traffic.

You can spend your taxes "better" than congress can because you know your values better than anybody else.

You indeed know your values better than anyone or anything else. But in case you missed it, the theoretical job of congress with regards to the budget is to find some balance of expenditures for MORE THAN JUST YOU.

The wants and needs of groups are not -- contrary to libertarian dogma -- merely reducible to the wants and needs of constituent individuals.

Group dynamics are real, and they are not just a bunch of individual needs added up and totaled.
 
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You STILL haven't demonstrated any proof of your false premise. Show how taxpayers would be rational/efficient in allocating money for government spending. That is the basis of your theory, one you have yet to prove.

This does not prove your position. It is actually irrelevant to your position.

This does not prove your position. In actuality, it supports the opposite.

This does not prove your position. It harms it, significantly, and the fact that you used it to try to assist your position demonstrates that you do not understand the complexity of economic theory and how other issues such as psychology and sociology impact it.

Now you're just embarrassing yourself. You say my economic concepts are all false or irrelevant but then you completely and continuously fail to supply any of your own! Hmmm...I wonder what that means? Oh yeah...it means you're full of hot air. You've got nothing but bluster. I knew it all along but figured I'd play along.

C'mon...at least try and save a little face by throwing a few economic concepts out there! So far you have yet to supply a single one! LOL
 
Now you're just embarrassing yourself. You say my economic concepts are all false or irrelevant but then you completely and continuously fail to supply any of your own! Hmmm...I wonder what that means? Oh yeah...it means you're full of hot air. You've got nothing but bluster. I knew it all along but figured I'd play along.

C'mon...at least try and save a little face by throwing a few economic concepts out there! So far you have yet to supply a single one! LOL

You STILL haven't proven your initial premise. Why is that? You know the challenge. Show how taxpayers would be rational/efficient in allocating money for government spending. Now, don't forget to include human psychology in your proof. It's a key component.
 
Setting aside the obvious disingenuity and dickishness of the rhetorical question, there's an obvious counter: you have not demonstrated that you share the same goals, so the real and effective question is actually one of "do you believe you can spend your money in a manner more beneficial to your goals as contrasted against a random and likely hostile stranger?"

If we instead looked at a situation of "you" vs. "your friend, who might offer financial or project advice on a specific issue," then actually YES, there are many cases in which such an advisor would be far, far more effective than you within the scope of that advice (for example, a friend of mine who's a chef is a great advisor for getting the most out of a trip to the grocery store, or explaining why/why not -- and when -- to pay more for certain kinds of ingredients, etc.).

So this schoolyard / nyah-nyah notion that a bunch of strangers turning down the "offer" of having you spend their money for them proves anything at all about general economic principles -- beyond demonstrating a well-grounded common distrust of likely cheats and swindlers -- is (at best) silly.

How was it silly? Did you miss the part where he claimed that taxpayers would behave irrationally? Your own account of taxpayer behavior refutes his argument....do you really not see that?


Yes and no. Yes, you choose your own goals, but once such a goal has been chosen, it is absolutely not the case that Anything Goes as far as measuring success. You might choose to view feeding and clothing yourself as more important than feeding and clothing a random stranger from another part of the world...but it does NOT follow from such a choice that the measures of success for this goal -- as identified and analyzed by the sciences of nutrition and medicine -- that you personally would be the sole and ultimate arbiter of whether or not a given option for action would be better (no quotes) or worse than another. Eating on a regular basis, for example, is definitely better (no quotes) with regards to the goal of feeding yourself than, say, playing in traffic.

Review what I wrote earlier about mistakes. Just search this page for "fallibilism"

You indeed know your values better than anyone or anything else. But in case you missed it, the theoretical job of congress with regards to the budget is to find some balance of expenditures for MORE THAN JUST YOU. The wants and needs of groups are not -- contrary to libertarian dogma -- merely reducible to the wants and needs of constituent individuals. Group dynamics are real, and they are not just a bunch of individual needs added up and totaled.

How can they find a balance that is more than just me when they don't even know my values? That doesn't make any sense. For all intents and purposes I don't exist to them. And neither do you. At most we are just statistics...meaningless numbers to them. To divorce the distribution of public funds from the values...priorities...partial knowledge...concerns...fears...goals...needs of society's most productive citizens is the height of conceit. Please provide any economic evidence to substantiate your claim that resources can be efficiently allocated by proxy. Trust me...I've looked far and wide and haven't been able to find any. The only explanation for congress allocating our taxes is historical. That's it.
 
You STILL haven't proven your initial premise. Why is that? You know the challenge. Show how taxpayers would be rational/efficient in allocating money for government spending. Now, don't forget to include human psychology in your proof. It's a key component.

Look on the first page and see what I wrote about sacrifice. Then compare what I wrote to the definition of opportunity cost from wikipedia...

Opportunity cost is the sacrifice related to the second best choice available to someone, or group, who has picked among several mutually exclusive choices. The opportunity cost is also the cost of the forgone products after making a choice. Opportunity cost is a key concept in economics, and has been described as expressing "the basic relationship between scarcity and choice". The notion of opportunity cost plays a crucial part in ensuring that scarce resources are used efficiently

Can you disprove the opportunity cost concept? Obviously you can't given that your questions and critiques clearly reveal that you've never even heard of it. Don't stop...this is fun!
 
Look on the first page and see what I wrote about sacrifice. Then compare what I wrote to the definition of opportunity cost from wikipedia...



Can you disprove the opportunity cost concept? Obviously you can't given that your questions and critiques clearly reveal that you've never even heard of it. Don't stop...this is fun!

Oh, I understand the concept of opportunity cost just fine. It has many applications outside of economics, too, including psychology and human behavior. Yet, this STILL doesn't answer my challenge. Here it is, just to remind you: Show how how taxpayers would be rational/efficient in allocating money for government spending. Now, if you want to include the concept of opportunity cost, here, feel free to show how taxpayers would use this concept in a rational/efficient way in allocating money for government spending. And I agree... this is fun dismantling your theory at it's base.
 
How was it silly?

How is it silly to take a fundamentally dishonest claim? If you really don't see how it's silly, I'm not sure you're ready to hear anyone else's explanation.

Did you miss the part where he claimed that taxpayers would behave irrationally?

Didn't miss it...but I'm sill hung up on the part in your first post where you get all self-congratulatory about supposedly having proven something...which doesn't at all follow from what you've cited. Above and beyond the sickishness, that's a fatal flaw for the foundation of your entire thread.

How can they find a balance that is more than just me when they don't even know my values? That doesn't make any sense.

You're missing something far more basic. The theoretical goal of budgeters in Congress (or in any collective organization directing funding or resources) is to effectively conceive and implement strategies for supporting goals which include -- but are NOT LIMITED TO -- goals of particular constituent individuals.

For all intents and purposes I don't exist to them. And neither do you.

Wrong. For SOCIOPATHS, others don't really exist. For normal, reasonably healthy people, consideration of other people is difficult and complicated, but no some bizarre and unprecedented approach to conceiving of shared action or resources.

To divorce the distribution of public funds from the values...priorities...partial knowledge...concerns...fears...goals...needs of society's most productive citizens is the height of conceit. Please provide any economic evidence to substantiate your claim that resources can be efficiently allocated by proxy.

I already have, and I'm not in the habit of providing additional examples in support of a claim when an example already given has been ignored or pretended away.
 
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To play up my namesake, Xerographica's core problem with his argument is he assumes everyone thinks like him and has the vast amount of free time to check various government programs to see how they're funded.

That alone makes him a new mockery target.

In other news, the Government can act like a Venture Capitalist. The impact of $5 a person spent how they want is pretty mimimal. The impact of $5 X 300 million people on a single company can result in serious outcomes, good and bad. The notion that government can spend money more efficiently then individuals is true and false. Without government we wouldn't have nuclear power. At the same time, without government we wouldn't have wasted $800,000 on a stupid GSA convention.
 
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Taxpayers would be able to directly allocate their taxes at anytime throughout the year. They would go directly to the welfare website, check the fundraising progress bar, and submit a tax payment. The welfare organization would then send notice of their payment to the IRS.

You can purchase private goods at anytime throughout the year...people can make donations at anytime throughout the year...yet for some reason you think my system would be based on only allowing taxpayers to pay taxes at the end of the year? That's ridiculous.
If taxpayers can choose when to pay, they can choose to pay on Dec. 31st, then on Jan. 1st, paying one day's worth of salary into the system. Even if they have to make that up the following year, you could have a situation where, in one year, the government gets next to no money. Guess we better hope people are contributing to a special fund for inefficient allocation of taxes?

Second, the administration costs of updating who has spent how much and how much each program would like, in addition to the money the government already spends operating the programs, would be astronomical.

This is what you call pragmatarianism?



20-30 million people died in China as a direct result of state induced famine. It was a consequence of planners...not markets. So you're the one that supports mass starvation...not me.
Lol, I didn't say you support it, just that you don't really think about the consequences of your proposals.

The choice is not between your proposal and communism. If China had a representative democracy and a capitalistic system, the productive members of society would make more, which would make the government better able to support the poor.


So organizations would have to convince us that they deserve our hard-earned money? Oh..."the horror".
Nice limbo-ing, but that's not what I said. It's about the amount. Your shifting does not give me any confidence in your ability to draw rational conclusions when presented with data, which makes me think you cannot be the economics mastermind you claim to be.

Being in favor of a committee of 538 people spending 150 million people's hard-earned money is what is beyond ignorance.
What is our Congress if not a smaller and more qualified, but very representative, sample of America as a whole? How is shifting the obligation to allocate funds to a larger sample, the only major difference being the size, degree of education and experience, and time they have to do it, likely to be more efficient?

I'll ask again, do you believe in representative democracy at all?

Feel free to try again.
If this is your idea of "schooling" liberals, color me unimpressed.
 
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