When The Physical Spark Just Isn't Really There

Gathomas88 said:

For the record, my mother's hardly averse to this kind of thinking either. Her first reaction when I brought the situation up to her was to laugh, say "that sucks," and emphasize it as another reason why I need to focus on advancing my professional prospects. She's also made it clear in the past that my father's looks most certainly did play a role in her choosing him back in the day as well.

They were actually a rather attractive couple, believe it or not. By her own admission, all of the men she dated would have made "beautiful babies."

Frankly... I don't really see a problem with that reasoning. :shrug:

I want someone I'm "hot" for. Sex appeal shouldn't be all there is to it, obviously, but I'm not going to downplay its relevance either. It's an important part of the romantic puzzle for the vast majority of people, and not something I intend to "settle" on, unless I truly feel it's really the right thing to do.

Who knows? It might very well be the right thing to do. I'm just not certain I'm at that point yet. Time alone will probably tell.

Yes, letting one's self "go" very much is a personal choice. I think it's one of the major areas where my parents have failed, actually (a reasonable level of fitness came fairly easy to them in their youth, so neither was terribly interested in athleticism, which had poor consequences as they got older), and one where I aim to improve upon their example.

Again, however, that's not really served by going for someone who isn't in the best of physical condition even now, in their youth. That's only going to deteriorate over time if the habits of the person in question do not change, after all.

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The downside is that their thinking has killed their sex life halfway through their lifecycle, when they still have lots of potential for decades more of fulfilling sexual intimacy.

The other downside is that a lot of people won't tolerate that, and will either leave or cheat to find someone less shallow who will fulfil their needs. While cheating is never justified, leaving is understandable.

Yet another downside is that viewing sexual attraction this way will limit the amount of sexual fulfilment you will get from sex. It will stop you from looking under the hood and working to have really fantastic sex, if you believe that it's all just about looks. Really great sex has nothing at all to do with that.

What I'm saying is that you can be hot for people at all kinds of levels of objective physical attractiveness. Being hot for them and them making a good poster model are completely unrelated.

I don't feel like it's "settling" to be with a 6 who blows your mind, or even a 4. Like I said, the best sexual connection I've ever had was with someone less attractive than me -- pretty mediocre. It had so much dimension to it that I couldn't give less of a damn.

On the "meat market," I have my pick of the litter. But I have found that making that an important criteria does nothing but cut me off from having the best possible relationship -- including in regards to sexual attraction.

And who says someone with good habits in youth won't lose that when they get older, just as much as someone with bad habits now might clean up as they age? After all, your parents lost their good habits. They "let themselves go," and all the depressing things that connotates.

You don't know what people are going to do 20 years from now. You just don't. That's a risk you have to take if you ever want to be with anyone. You can't control or predict people. And relationships need to be about more than the hope that you can, or they won't last.

americanwoman said:

The girl you are talking about that you say you are not physically attracted to.

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She's just, well... fat. :shrug:

Not obese, or anything, but certainly on the "heavy" side. It's weird, because her sister is tiny, from what I've seen.

Maybe she's just that way naturally. However, she's told me that she doesn't work out, and she likes to go out, so I think that's probably the major culprit.

I can start to get flabby pretty quick too when I drop the exercise and don't adjust my diet accordingly. A lot of military guys have similar problems. Lol

Her being a native Floridian might have something to do with it as well. Like I said earlier, the climate down there can actually serve to keep people somewhat thin in and of itself.

My mother complained that it was only after leaving that she had to really start watching her weight.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

The downside is that their thinking has killed their sex life halfway through their lifecycle, when they still have lots of potential for decades more of fulfilling sexual intimacy.

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A lot of things have done that. The primary one being that they never really had "good habits" so much as good genes, and those have become a lot less relevant as they aged.

If my mother and father had made more of an effort to stay in shape over the years, and watch their eating habits, I think they'd both be in substantially better condition today than they are now (sexually, and otherwise).

They started out strong, but they dropped the ball a bit on forethought and proper maintenance. They're doing alright in spite of all of that. However, they could have done better.

One can always do better.

The other downside is that a lot of people won't tolerate that, and will either leave or cheat to find someone less shallow who will fulfil their needs. While cheating is never justified, leaving is understandable.

Yet another downside is that viewing sexual attraction this way will limit the amount of sexual fulfilment you will get from sex. It will stop you from looking under the hood and working to have really fantastic sex, if you believe that it's all just about looks. Really great sex has nothing at all to do with that.

What I'm saying is that you can be hot for people at all kinds of levels of objective physical attractiveness. Being hot for them and them making a good poster model are completely unrelated.

I don't feel like it's "settling" to be with a 6 who blows your mind, or even a 4. Like I said, the best sexual connection I've ever had was with someone less attractive than me -- pretty mediocre. It had so much dimension to it that I couldn't give less of a damn.

On the "meat market," I have my pick of the litter. But I have found that making that an important criteria does nothing but cut me off from having the best possible relationship -- including in regards to sexual attraction.

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I already covered my response to this in an edited addition to my previous post. I'll quote it here.


...

And who says someone with good habits in youth won't lose that when they get older, just as much as someone with bad habits now might clean up as they age? After all, your parents lost their good habits. They "let themselves go," and all the depressing things that connotates.

You don't know what people are going to do 20 years from now. You just don't. That's a risk you have to take if you ever want to be with anyone. You can't control or predict people. And relationships need to be about more than the hope that you can, or they won't last.

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True. Again, however, is it generally not wiser to pick someone who has good habits to begin with and go from there?

Dating someone in the hopes that they eventually change is problematic for reasons all its own.

Gathomas88 said:

A lot of things have done that. The primary one being that they never really had "good habits" so much as good genes, and those have become a lot less relevant as they aged.

If my mother and father had made more of an effort to stay in shape over the years, and watch their eating habits, I think they'd both be in substantially better shape today than they are now (sexually, and otherwise).

They started out strong, but they dropped the ball a bit on forethought and proper maintenance. They're doing alright in spite of all of that. However, they could have done better.

One can always do better.

I already covered my response to this in an edited addition to my previous post. I'll quote it here.

...

True. Again, however, is it generally not wiser to pick someone who has good habits to begin with and go from there?

Dating someone in the hopes that they eventually change is problematic for reasons all its own.

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Regarding your edit, my first question is... have you ever given it a chance?

You haven't dated a lot in your life from what I gather. I have. This is something that requires you to know someone.

Not just in the general, "Oh, they seem pleasant and we have good conversations about the weather" sort of way, but more about who they really are. How they think, what sort of energy they put in a room, how they show they care or what they want.

This DOESN'T require you to know them for a long time. If you know how to do your one-on-one, and if you're honest about what you want, and if you walk in being exactly who you are, this can happen very quickly. Between a week and a month. If you're both really good at it, almost immediately.

You don't know them really well at that point, but you are starting to know how their internals work, as it were. And that's where it comes from -- genuine sexiness which has nothing to do with looks.

This is how it's possible for my logical brain to say "no," and my intuition to say "YES!" Following my intuition paid off. I must have picked up on something subliminal which wasn't easy for my logical mind to crystallize, and that was what tipped me off. How things look on paper isn't always how they are.

The goal isn't to hope they change. The goal is to decide what's really important, and realize they may change over time for better or worse, and that won't change what's really important.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Regarding your edit, my first question is... have you ever given it a chance?

You haven't dated a lot in your life from what I gather. I have. This is something that requires you to know someone.

Not just in the general, "Oh, they seem pleasant and we have good conversations about the weather" sort of way, but more about who they really are. How they think, what sort of energy they put in a room, how they show they care or what they want.

This DOESN'T require you to know them for a long time. If you know how to do your one-on-one, and if you're honest about what you want, and if you walk in being exactly who you are, this can happen very quickly. Between a week and a month. If you're both really good at it, almost immediately.

You don't know them really well at that point, but you are starting to know how their internals work, as it were. And that's where it comes from -- genuine sexiness which has nothing to do with looks.

This is how it's possible for my logical brain to say "no," and my intuition to say "YES!" Following my intuition paid off. I must have picked up on something subliminal which wasn't easy for my logical mind to crystallize, and that was what tipped me off. How things look on paper isn't always how they are.

The goal isn't to hope they change. The goal is to decide what's really important, and realize they may change over time for better or worse, and that won't change what's really important.

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That's kind of what I'm contemplating here. Is it not? Lol

In any case, I think we can both agree that it's probably a bit early to try and rush into anything. I'll still be hanging out with this girl for the foreseeable future, so there's plenty of time to see if anything pressing enough that I feel the need to make a move develops out of it.

Maybe I just like her as a really compatible friend. Maybe it's as something more. If it's the latter, so be it. :shrug:

Gathomas88 said:

Ummm... I haven't "pulled" anything, in case you haven't noticed.

I was simply discussing my thoughts on the matter. What's more, I freely admitted that they were rather shallow.

You've never run across someone who was almost there, but not quite?

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Getting her interested in working out may very well be the best thing that ever happened to her. It is for most people.

Gathomas88 said:

I'm sorry, but you are reading entirely way too much into this, dude. Physical compatibility, like it or not, is a real thing. It is important to a successful relationship. That is true of men and women alike, and necessarily demeaning to neither.

Simply speaking, we do not have sex with that which we are not attracted.

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I think Bubba in prison might disagree with you - but I hear you, and I'm sorry you caught so much grief over asking for a little advice. As you say, this is the conversation friends have with one another all the time.

Granted, this is a bigger deal for some people than others. However, it's nothing to be ashamed of in any eventuality. That's simply how some people's sex drive works.

As I said in the OP, I like this girl just fine. I'm simply not sure if I LIKE like her. The physical side of things does, unfortunately and unavoidably, play a role in this, but there's nothing wrong with that. :shrug:

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Here's my opinion - keep it on a friendship basis. Strictly. I wouldn't drag her to a gym and try to change her anymore than I would want a woman to secretly think she could change me for the better.

Bottom line (for me), if you don't "feel it," you're either not ready for an intimate relationship that might lead to something more - or she's just not your "type." It's completely okay if she's not your type. I note you mention her sister is hot. I would walk away from that as fast as I could. If you did meet her sister - and her sister liked you - it would cause a fight between the two sisters that wouldn't be worth it.

Here's the other thing - looks fade. Some fade more quickly than others.

At my 15 year reunion, I was nervous about running into a girl I'd dated in high school. She'd been a cheerleader and I thought she was the most incredible thing I'd ever seen. She dumped me, of course. I married in my mid-20's to a woman some would have called "mousy." Very intelligent, articulate, slightly skinny and someone I always felt comfortable around. By the time the reunion rolled around, my wife had "bloomed," literally. Her self-confidence grew, she started wearing more stylish clothes and makeup, and she looked a like a runway model. Still, I was nervous about seeing Sharon again. I'd had the worst crush on her. She'd married one of the school's star basketball players (don't they all?) and I didn't even recognize her when they had the old Varsity cheerleaders out to do a cheer. She was huge. I kid you not. Part of that was because she was pregnant - but not all of it - she was huge. Her hair was greasy and she looked awful. Old classmates hovered around my wife.

Okay, I'm rambling, but my point is that - even had my wife not blossomed the way she did - I would still be madly in love with her. The physical attraction was certainly there when we married - but it wasn't just about sex. It was about so much more. My ex-cheerleader girlfriend? That was only sex.

Just decide what you want. Are you looking for a soulmate? If you are - you might have found her. Are you just looking for someone hot in bed? That's okay, too. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't. You're entitled to a good time as much as anyone else is.

Biggest thing -- don't hurt feelings if you can help it.

just got thru reading this thread
and still have not found the post where you confessed to battering and drowning puppies
there had to have been such a post to warrant the very strident criticism you were receiving


you're a normal guy in his 20's, presumably with teeming hormones (<- maybe my favorite sounding word; yea, i'm shallow)

and you are following your natural instincts. you want your friend, only with her sister's hot body. and you are pondering if you could make that happen. only then would you truly WANT your friend sexually

despite the peanut gallery's loud objections, there's not a thing wrong with your questioning whether this is something to be pursued

in my never humble opinion, it isn't. for HER sake. you can never have enough good friends. why lose one trying to accomplish the impossible. young people need to learn that they cannot change other people to be the way they want them. if i had a dollar for every time i have seen a woman (usually) think she could change a man to become what she wants ... well, i would have a stack of dollars. and i have never seen that change happen. which is why i think your hope is, realistically, hopeless

the good news is you have a great friend-girl. just like she has a hot sister (who presently appears to be off limits) she probably also knows a lot of attractive co-eds. by hanging out with her, you will likely become acquainted with her friends. friendship bonus ... and at least as good as a friend with benefits

so, don't destroy a solid friendship trying to change her. but do be a good friend and introduce her to things she might enjoy; some of them may be slimming. but that should not be the objective (for you)

and i should have simply said take heed of the excellent counsel howard b thin offered in post #57 while ignoring those who would suppress your legitimate inquiries

justabubba said:

just got thru reading this thread
and still have not found the post where you confessed to battering and drowning puppies
there had to have been such a post to warrant the very strident criticism you were receiving

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Perhaps you missed his OP opening line

Sooo... I know I'll probably get some blowback for this,

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He was expecting some criticism and yes, Gath did receive some. He's clearly expecting some or he wouldn't have said that in the OP, would he?

In hindsight, my initial response was perhaps a little harsh, I can only put it down to cultural differences/attitudes relating to what is deemed acceptable perhaps. I don't think it is ok to post pictures of one of my "friends" sisters (without her permission) to make a point about how unattractive I may find my "friend" physically.

I don't make any apologies for holding those beliefs.

Serenity said:

Perhaps you missed his OP opening line



He was expecting some criticism and yes, Gath did receive some. He's clearly expecting some or he wouldn't have said that in the OP, would he?

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But consider if a close female friend had confided something similar to you? Suppose she told you about a great guy but that she wasn't really physically attracted to him. I'm guessing you're female by your username, but if not, forgive my err. It would have been perfectly fine, I'm guessing for your friend to tell you how attractive she found the guy's brother but that he was already taken and that she didn't want to hurt the first brother's feelings anyway.

Guys do the same thing -- sometimes they just want a little feedback.

In hindsight, my initial response was perhaps a little harsh, I can only put it down to cultural differences/attitudes relating to what is deemed acceptable perhaps. I don't think it is ok to post pictures of one of my "friends" sisters (without her permission) to make a point about how unattractive I may find my "friend" physically.

I don't make any apologies for holding those beliefs.

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It might have been a bit harsh, but you certainly were not alone in your initial assessment. I think it's a good idea the photos were removed, but I don't think they violated anyone, seeing as the woman was not identified and the odds of anyone recognizing her are almost zero. I don't think his point was to show how "unattractive" his friend was - but to see if everyone agreed that the sister was a knockout.

It's hard to "see through" the wide expanse of the internet and judge another's heart and intent, which is why I try to err on the side of not hurting feelings.

I will say that if anyone here meets the qualifications of being a good and loyal friend - you have shown that you are. I'm sure that virtue is treasured by those whom you hold dear. All is well. Have a wonderful New Year.

Serenity said:

You pulled your "friends" sisters pictures from her facebook page and posted them here without her permission I assume? That's a dog act. Why don't you ask your "friend", her sister and her boyfriend how they feel about that and get back to us?

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What pictures?

Gathomas88 said:

Right?

I mean... Yeah. This thread is probably a bit more "locker room talk" oriented than most. However, it's not like these aren't thoughts that plenty of other people have had before (if they're being honest with themselves, at least).

Just the age old divide between being honest vs being socially delicate, I suppose. :roll:

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I think you need a few more years to become mature before you try to have a relationship. You are not ready for it, and things will not end well.

JANFU said:

What pictures?

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They were removed from the OP.

beefheart said:

I think you need a few more years to become mature before you try to have a relationship. You are not ready for it, and things will not end well.

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Excellent advice.

Gathomas88 said:

Sooo... I know I'll probably get some blowback for this, but there's this girl my friends and I have been hanging out with for about a month or so. They introduced me to her, and - while they haven't blatantly said as much - I get the feeling that they may be trying to set me up with her.

The problem is that I'm just not really "into" her in that way. Don't get me wrong. We're actually remarkably compatible in terms of personality and background - She's an intelligent, and good humored, Italian-American Catholic and native Floridian (like your's truly), from a fairly Conservative family. She's also reasonably cute in the face. She just doesn't really take much care of her body, so I don't find her to be "attractive" per se. There's no real "oompf" there, in other words.

And... (Here comes the messed up part) Then I happened to see her sister on Facebook...



Ho... Lee... ****balls, Batman...

As far as my "type" goes, that's very nearly a damn dreamgirl.

I've got no intention of trying to pursue her. That'd be mean. Besides, she lives out of a state, and I think she's dating a lawyer or something (go figure, right? :lamo ). However, terrible as it sounds, I kind of want to invite the girl I am hanging out with to the gym for a couple of months and see if something more like her sister develops out of it. lol

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm clearly not going to tell this girl any of that. I'm not cruel. I honestly wouldn't even try it.

Still... It's kind of a weird situation.

Yeah. Sure, I'm being shallow. However, I can't really help that. It's how I am. Even if I wasn't, would it even be fair to try and date someone you're only "50%" on, even if you were going to try and change things so you could be more into them? Hell! Trying to "change" people in general raises its own issues.

I feel like the "friendzone" is probably the best solution here. There's plenty of time to play this "by ear" and see if anything comes of it.

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you are way overthinking this and thinking way too hard about the physical side of things. Go with your gut. If you are not attracted to her, then you aren't. If you feel you want to kiss her and suspect she feels the same, try it. It is as simple as that

Get over the sister thing, that just a stupid distraction.

tacomancer said:

you are way overthinking this and thinking way too hard about the physical side of things. Go with your gut. If you are not attracted to her, then you aren't. If you feel you want to kiss her and suspect she feels the same, try it. It is as simple as that

Get over the sister thing, that just a stupid distraction.

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Well... Yeah, obviously. The sister lives in the Midwest somewhere, and she's got a boyfriend. I've never met her, and I'm unlikely to ever do so. That whole situation couldn't possibly have "not gonna happen" written all over it any harder if it tried. :lol:

Again, the only reason I brought the sister up at all is because it raises one Hell of an "if only/what if."

This girl's personality with her sister's body? Yeah... That'd pretty much be a "done deal." Lol

Gathomas88 said:

Well... Yeah, obviously. The sister lives in the Midwest somewhere, and she's got a boyfriend. I've never met her, and I'm unlikely to ever do so. That whole situation couldn't possibly have "not gonna happen" written all over it any harder if it tried. :lol:

Again, the only reason I brought the sister up at all is because it raises one Hell of an "if only/what if."

This girl's personality with her sister's body? Yeah... That'd pretty much be a "done deal." Lol

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If this is how you feel, don't date either of them.

also, "hot" girls are a dime a dozen and quite frankly if you fall in actual love, than whoever you are with will be the more beautiful girl in the world, regardless if they started out as a 6 or a 10.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Great sex, in a way, is much more like artistic compatibility than physicality.

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I cannot requote this statement enough. The most amazing sex I have ever had is with someone who we get each other intuitively and on multiple levels all at the same time. When you have sex with someone who you feel all of them, not just their bodies, but you feel the past, now, their likes and dislikes, your appreciation for them and what they do and who they are, understanding of their mind, body and soul, and acceptance of that person all at the same time, THAT is what is mind blowing. When your bodies are perfectly choreographed without practice, that is where it gets good. Their level of beauty skyrockets and they take on a glow far more than a body could ever hope to have, even if that body is a 10 to begin with.

Hopefully gathomas88 will experience this and calm down about having so many damn artificial criteria.

tacomancer said:

If this is how you feel, don't date either of them.

also, "hot" girls are a dime a dozen and quite frankly if you fall in actual love, than whoever you are with will be the more beautiful girl in the world, regardless if they started out as a 6 or a 10.

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Which is assuming she starts out as a "6" to begin with. Lol

I mean... Look. You guys keep harping on this whole "looks are more than skin deep" thing. Frankly, I don't disagree.

However, I also don't think that's any reason to take things to the opposite extreme and jump into bed with someone you have zero physical chemistry with on the principle of the thing alone.

I want a woman who's smart, likable, and attractive. No, not a "ten," per se, but "cute" at the very least. Half the people in this thread are acting like that's too much to ask.

Errrmmm... Why? What the Hell's wrong with having a "type?" :screwy

Sometimes things just don't click that way.

Gathomas88 said:

Which is assuming she starts out as a "6" to begin with. :lol:

I mean... Look. You guys keep harping on this whole "looks are more than skin deep" thing. Frankly, I don't disagree.

However, I also don't think that's any reason to take things to the opposite extreme and jump into bed with someone you have zero physical chemistry with on the principle of the thing alone.

I want a woman who's smart, likable, and attractive. No, not a "ten," per se, but "cute" at the very least. Half the people in this thread are acting like that's too much to ask.

Errrmmm... Why? What the Hell's wrong with having a "type?" :screwy

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If she is as you say she is, then go make a good friend. If you are never more than friends, have either of you lost anything or have you gained something you didn't have before meeting each other? If something develops from that, awesome, if not, awesome. You win either way.

Just move in with Felix Unger and be done with it, Mr. picky.

It's probably your loss if you just let it go.

Some guys can pull off bald/baldness, some cant.

I had a really good, really compatible guy friend who really wasnt 'pulling off' the coming baldness. And he was shorter than I by about 2 inches.

We were just friends (so while maybe my perspective was shallow, I wasnt looking at him as a boyfriend.) However we became really good friends, ended up knowing each other very well and then I did find him attractive, the whole package.

Feelings and attractions can change.

tacomancer said:

If this is how you feel, don't date either of them.

also, "hot" girls are a dime a dozen and quite frankly if you fall in actual love, than whoever you are with will be the more beautiful girl in the world, regardless if they started out as a 6 or a 10.

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^^^ this.

tacomancer said:

If she is as you say she is, then go make a good friend. If you are never more than friends, have either of you lost anything or have you gained something you didn't have before meeting each other? If something develops from that, awesome, if not, awesome. You win either way.

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Which is basically what I've said, I think.

She's fun to hang out with, even if I don't think she's "attractive," per se. I'll just leave things at that and see what comes of it.

tacomancer said:

Hopefully gathomas88 will experience this and calm down about having so many damn artificial criteria.

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Now, I'll fully admit that I've got a few more "criteria" for potential mates than most. Romantically (and politically) correct or no, I care about a person's past, for example, and their sexual habits.

Why?

Well... Simply speaking, even after putting aide the "ick" factor of being with someone who's really "been around," and the problems raised by trying to find commonality with someone who has values that are basically 180 degrees off of your own, it rather objectively seems to be the case that those sorts of people just don't make for particularly stable or reliable mates. No offense intended to anyone, but even amongst the people who admit to that sort of behavior on this forum (let alone in the general population), most can claim at least one divorce, and basically all of them seem to have a rather long and "colorful" history of failed relationships behind them. That's a level of drama I simply want no part of. I'm the kind of guy who's only taking a shot if he has a decent chance of hitting the target, and such a dalliances would simply strike me as being a poor investment of time and energy.

Again, however, I fully admit that those are "artificial," and therefore negotiable, criteria. If everything else clicks, I'm willing to play things by ear.

"I just don't find this person sexually appealing," on the other hand?

I'm sorry, but no. That's not an "artificial" criteria. That's one of the most basic "bread and butter" elements of human coupling.

Maybe that can be overcome under certain circumstances, but I'm certainly not banking on it in the absence of any particularly pressing reason to do so.

Gathomas88 said:

Which is basically what I've said, I think.

She's fun to hang out with, even if I don't think she's "attractive," per se. I'll just leave things at that and see what comes of it.



Now, I'll fully admit that I've got a few more "criteria" for potential mates than most. Romantically (and politically) correct or no, I care about a person's past, for example, and their sexual habits.

Why?

Well... Simply speaking, even after putting aide the "ick" factor of being with someone who's really "been around," and the problems raised by trying to find commonality with someone who has values that are basically 180 degrees off of your own, it rather objectively seems to be the case that those sorts of people just don't make for particularly stable or reliable mates. No offense intended to anyone, but even amongst the people who admit to that sort of behavior on this forum (let alone in the general population), most can claim at least one divorce, and basically all of them seem to have a rather long and "colorful" history of failed relationships behind them. That's a level of drama I simply want no part of. I'm the kind of guy who's only taking a shot if he has a decent chance of hitting the target, and such a dalliances would simply strike me as being a poor investment of time and energy.

Again, however, I fully admit that those are "artificial," and therefore negotiable, criteria. If everything else clicks, I'm willing to play things by ear.

"I just don't this person sexually appealing," on the other hand?

I'm sorry, but no. That's not an "artificial" criteria. That's one of the most basic "bread and butter" elements of human coupling.

Maybe that can be overcome under certain circumstances, but I'm certainly not banking on it in the absence of any particularly pressing reason to do so.

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relationships are a gamble at best. no amount of criteria will change that. If you don't want to have a divorce or failed relationship, the thing to focus on is not in finding the perfect person, it is in investing in the emotional capabilities of adapting to and growing with another person. You and whoever you end up will constantly change as you grow. You cannot plan for that with any amount of criteria and you have to be open to the idea that this growth can be both positive and negative. My ex wife was a completely different person when I married her and if she had stayed that person, we would be married today, but she had life experiences and those life experiences had their affect on her just as life experience has an effect on everyone. The woman I am with is absolutely incredible, more than I have words for to be honest, but she may change. Nobody knows the future. She could lose her son in some accident and have it completely change her personality though, you never know (I mention that because the loss of a child almost always breaks up a marriage, no matter how compatible the two are).

Who I am today is quite different than who I was one or two years ago. Who I was last year is very different than who I was five years ago.

The best thing you can do, as far as I can tell, is to find someone where you have the best friendship imaginable and let romance grow from that. A good friendship is more enduring than love and will actually cause and reinforce the growth of more love. But I can tell you right now, how many kids you want vs how many kids she will want. Your life goals vs her life goals. All of that will change in time. You will change over time too. Your life goals of today will not be the same life goals in ten years. If you find a good friend, a best friend, and let the romance take care of itself, then you have a chance to grow in the same direction and share the same dreams. That is not an intellectual exercise and not something that can be planned for, it will happen when it does.