jfuh

The debate is over, who do you think won the debate?

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cherokee

Hipsterdufus, hands down from start to finish...

akyron

128 put up a good fight but hipster took it.

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Volker

It was 128shot, who formulated arguments without stooping to the low level, which Hipsterdufus used in this debate.

danarhea

Sorry, but I just dont see where Hipsterdufus hit below the belt. You make the accusation, but then dont quote any example, which seems to be a hit below the belt from yourself. The only place in the debate where this can actually be debated is when Hipster implied that 128shot was not a scholar. That was because 128shot did say that he was a scholar on the issue, which he is not. He did not mean to say that, but because he did, he left himself open to be corrected. After being corrected, 128shot then did admit that he made a mistake in calling himself a scholar. That whole part of the debate, however, was no biggie. Small mistakes like that dont figure very much into the whole equation of who won or lost the debate. Sorry, but your characterization of the debate of hitting below the belt was disingenuous, and based on personal bias, IMHO.

As for the debate itself, both contestants did admirably well. I give the debate to Hipster, but not by a whole lot, as some do. I base my conclusion on the following:

1) Hipster did state his points extensively, and used many sources. While 128shot did make some points, he used only one source for the first part of the debate, and as Hipster pointed out, that source was before 911. Still, 128shot could have defended the source a little better, rather than having Hipster successfully attack that source. In addition, if 128shot had used multiple sources, Hipster would not have had an available opening for that tactic.

2) Where Hipster did, IMHO, make a mistake, it was the additional points of possible pedophilia by Muhammad, which were not germaine to the discussion on violence. The point that a man in his 50's married a 13 year old girl was made without the culture of that era taken into account. Back then a child became a woman at the age of 12, and an unmarried woman at the age of 18 was pretty much considered a spinster. Even today, the custom of the Jewish bat and bar mizvahs signify the passage from child to adult. These ceremonies are typically conducted at the age of 12. There are many other additional points which can be made which would have scored points in my opinion. The biggest point scorer would have been simply to rightfully claim that it was off topic. 128shot failed to do this.

On the basis of 1 and 2, I give the victory to Hipster, but not by all that much. 128shot did a good job as well, but was simply outdone, and failed to take advantage of opportunities. Still, my hat is off to him, as well as Hipster. Well done, guys.

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akyron

" Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)"

Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 88)


Hipster was off only in that the topic was violence not pedo.
He had already nailed it down pretty good by that time so a little diversity was not really an issue to me.
He could have also made the point that Mo sent many of his followers off to die so he could marry their widows as well.

Volker

It was not towards 128shot, but towards the religion.
I already gave the examples in the debate discussion threads.

Picaro

In the U.S., some states had an age of consent of 10 years old, and many had consent ages of 12 right into the 20th century, so I agree with this point.

I give the Hipster a win, but then he had the easiest side. 128shot gets a lot of credit for defense of a relatively hopeless position, with history and current events running almost entirely against him.

akyron

I agree. He put up a good fight anyway. Grats.