Debate #2 discussion...ToT v Billo - Page 13

Trajan Octavian Titus · 07-18-06, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billo_Really

Here you go TOT-boy, more proof your FOS...

lmao just as I suspected absolutely no counter statistics just more rhetoric and opinion and notice it said in Baghdad which is right in line with what I've been saying all along power is now distributed more equitably throughout Iraq.

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Here's a little info on your precious USAID which you have rested all your hopes and dreams.

When you consider the source, USAID has a big stake in making the numbers look good. And because of their efforts...

A) Your source is a partisan hack anti-war cite that mentioned nothing about electrical output.

B) I only got the pre-war levels from the usaid the current level came from the Iraqi minister of electricity as well as the IEA, the DOE, and the CIA.

C) Now run along Billo until you have some of those little things we here in the world of debate call facts.

Billo_Really · 07-18-06, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TOT:
A) Your source is a partisan hack anti-war cite that mentioned nothing about electrical output.

Nice ad hom. Attack the source when you can't prove the assertion false.

Quote:

Originally posted by TOT:
B) I only got the pre-war levels from the usaid the current level came from the Iraqi minister of electricity as well as the IEA, the DOE, and the CIA.

What the hell does the CIA know about power distribution? They are a spy organization. The DOE deals with American power. And as far as the IEA, they apparently disagree with your assertion that these are facts...

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TOT's source making a disclaimer to TOT's alleged facts:
We can not make any claims concerning the correctness of these data since we are not affiliated with the data originators.

The link can be found in one of TOT's posts.

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Originally posted by TOT:
C) Now run along Billo until you have some of those little things we here in the world of debate call facts.

You want facts, I give you facts...

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Definitions of fact on the Web:

a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case"

a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts"

an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell"

a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

In law, a fact is a statement which is found to be true by a "tryer of fact," sometimes a jury, but often the court (the judge or judges) after hearing evidence.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact_(law)

An indisputable truth.
www.carm.org/atheism/terms.htm

A fact or unit clause is a term of the form: Head. where Head is a structure or an atom. A fact may be considered to be a rule whose body is always true.
http://www.icparc.ic.ac.uk/eclipse/d...man/node6.html

A fact is a proposition that has been asserted to be either True or False . The term "fact" usually refers to a "ground proposition", ie, a proposition that can be represented as a predicate applied to a sequence of instances or literals.
http://www.isi.edu/isd/LOOM/PowerLoo...manual_12.html

knowledge or information based on real occurrences; a thing that has been done; something shown to exist; something known to have existed; a real occurrence; something believed to be true; an event
www.pddoc.com/copyright/glossary.htm

A statement about the relationship between objects.
www.pcai.com/web/glossary/pcai_p_s_glossary.html

When an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact.
www.nmsr.org/wrkshp9.htm

Something that is known to have happened or to be true or to exist
resweb.llu.edu/rford/docs/VGD/GSLVT/gslglossary.html

a description of a bit or piece of some domain of inquiry.
oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth370/gloss.html

An investment of $1000 a year (that’s $20 a week) that grows at a rate of 10% a year (that’s lower than the average annual growth of the stock market, which is 12%) will grow to almost $110,000 in 25 years. An annual investment of $2000 at the same growth rate will be $220,000 in that same time period. Not magic, its the power of compounding.
http://www.artistsfoundation.org/art...investment.htm

an issue which, in order to be relevant in this connection, has to indicate either a strength or a weakness
www.finnevo.fi/eng/contents/show_page.php

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ition&ct=title

However, the IEEE, the Dean of Electrical Engineering at the largest Iraqi University in Bagdad and the average Iraqi citizen are all "...independent and competent observers..." thereby making their assertions...

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FACTS!

Trajan Octavian Titus · 07-18-06, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billo_Really

Nice ad hom. Attack the source when you can't prove the assertion false.

What the hell does the CIA know about power distribution? They are a spy organization. The DOE deals with American power. And as far as the IEA, they apparently disagree with your assertion that these are facts...The link can be found in one of TOT's posts.

You want facts, I give you facts...However, the IEEE, the Dean of Electrical Engineering at the largest Iraqi University in Bagdad and the average Iraqi citizen are all "...independent and competent observers..." thereby making their assertions...

WOW so much rhetoric but yet so little factual information.

Billo give me the contradictory stats or shut your lying ****ing mouth.

Billo_Really · 07-18-06, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TOT:
WOW so much rhetoric but yet so little factual information.

Billo give me the contradictory stats or shut your lying ****ing mouth.

Oh yeah, well if I had feelings, that would hurt!

Trajan Octavian Titus · 07-18-06, 11:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Billo_Really

Oh yeah, well if I had feelings, that would hurt!

Oh ya those unsubstantiated opinions sting bad

emotions are for the weak.

Billo_Really · 07-20-06, 12:48 AM

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Originally posted by TOT:
Oh ya those unsubstantiated opinions sting bad

What are the chances of several un-related sources (saying the same thing) being false?

If an Iraqi citizen, living in Iraq, says he only has 3-4 hours of electricity a day, how can you possibly say to that person, "No you don't! You got more than that!"

Trajan Octavian Titus · 07-20-06, 01:41 AM

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Originally Posted by Billo_Really

What are the chances of several un-related sources (saying the same thing) being false?

With the number of anti-wasr anti-u.s. websites out there I'd say the chances are pretty good.

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If an Iraqi citizen, living in Iraq, says he only has 3-4 hours of electricity a day, how can you possibly say to that person, "No you don't! You got more than that!"

Because that's what the majority of Iraq had, Baghdad electrical consumption has decreased because electricity is now being distributed more equitably.

still no counter stats? Why is that hmmm let me think.

Billo_Really · 07-20-06, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TOT:
still no counter stats? Why is that hmmm let me think.

Why do you keep claiming stats from a source that won't even vouch for their authenticity?

Trajan Octavian Titus · 07-20-06, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billo_Really

Why do you keep claiming stats from a source that won't even vouch for their authenticity?

Because the CIA, the IEA, and the DOD do vouch for them the only reason why the IAEA doesn't is because they are not the original data collectors but the primary source material is from reputable sources.

Again where are the counter stats? I'll be waiting for your next opinion on the matter.

Billo_Really · 07-21-06, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TOT:
Because the CIA, the IEA, and the DOD do vouch for them the only reason why the IAEA doesn't is because they are not the original data collectors but the primary source material is from reputable sources.

Again where are the counter stats? I'll be waiting for your next opinion on the matter.

Asking the CIA how much power Iraq is putting out is like asking General Motors how many potatoes Ireland produces. And what the hell is our Dept of Energy doing concerning itself with another country? I'll tell you what, to continue this ruse that Iraq has more power. I don't trust this federal government at all! I don't believe a god-damn word out of any of their collective mouths. The United States federal government has proven it cannot be trusted. We elected a bunch of liars.

The IEA is the only organization that is qualified to make this call and they won't. Because these numbers are bull****!

Several un-related, very diverse sources are all saying they have a big problem with basic services in Iraq. Even your own USAID source admitted that there is a problem. And all you can do is lie to yourself.