The task of kicking the ant-vaccine crowd in the nuts is one I usually take great pleasure in but I'm wondering if most of this group hasnt basically dissolved. I dont really see anti-vaccine garbage turn up anywhere except the REALLY out there forums and some of the more inane email circulars.
Has this group FINALLY got the message and gone to ground?
Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. And every day without fail one should consider himself as dead.Mistakes have finished my brothers
Mistakes will guide all the others
hopefully they've gone, there arguments made no senseOriginally Posted by Hoplite
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thats nawt a knoif, this is a knoif!- Old Australian Proverb
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Yes, mercury is good for you now, so the mercury based preservative is actually a GOOD thing. I mean, people EAT fish tainted with mercury all the time with no ill effects, and injecting it into your blood stream can't be any different, right?
The H1N1 vaccine insert says that it can cause Guillaine Barre, but we'll forget about that. we can also ignore the fact that the people that were 'high priority' for being vaccinated against H1N1 are the VERY SAME group of people that the insert says TO NOT INJECT with the vaccine.
We can also forget about the many women that have had neurological damage, been paralyzed or DIED because of the Gardasil shot.
While we're at it, let's forget about when Baxter nearly unleashed a 'vaccine' that was found to contain both types of avian flu (one highly deadly but low contagious the other low virulant but easily transmitted), and a human flu, which according to experts could have created a flu hybrid that could have killed 60% of those infected. The only reason it DID NOT get released was because a subcontractor tested the vaccine on a ferret that died from the vaccine. That's completely irrellevant.
Might as well forget about the SV40 virus that's been found in many different vaccines (even those where this virus has nothing to do with the manufacturing of vaccines).
I'll source every piece of that when you inevitably come back and tell my that I'm lying / making stuff up.
"They (the American people) are so good and so innocent, that they are almost criminally innocent." Hamid Gul.
The forces of endarkenment remain strong in isolated backwaters.
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My natural exuberance spills out all over the place.
PULL!
No elemental mercury is currently used in any commercially avalible vaccine
There are risks associated with any medical procedure and vaccination is a medical procedure.The H1N1 vaccine insert says that it can cause Guillaine Barre, but we'll forget about that. we can also ignore the fact that the people that were 'high priority' for being vaccinated against H1N1 are the VERY SAME group of people that the insert says TO NOT INJECT with the vaccine.
Between June 2006 and December 2008, over 23 million Gardasil vaccinations were given with just over 12,000 bad reactions reported. 4 of those were fatal. That is a .00001% chance of a fatal reaction and a 0.5% of a bad reaction at allWe can also forget about the many women that have had neurological damage, been paralyzed or DIED because of the Gardasil shot.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/...16&uac=28013DZ
Now when you consider that Gardasil is used to treat HPV which is a good place to start for getting cervical cancer for women, which kills over 3,000 women per year in the US with about 11,000 new cases diagnosed every year.
Call me callous, but 4 to save 3,000....
I fail to see what deliberate product tampering has to do with this.While we're at it, let's forget about when Baxter nearly unleashed a 'vaccine' that was found to contain both types of avian flu (one highly deadly but low contagious the other low virulant but easily transmitted), and a human flu, which according to experts could have created a flu hybrid that could have killed 60% of those infected. The only reason it DID NOT get released was because a subcontractor tested the vaccine on a ferret that died from the vaccine. That's completely irrellevant.
SV40 contamination is no longer a problem with properly prepared vaccines.Might as well forget about the SV40 virus that's been found in many different vaccines (even those where this virus has nothing to do with the manufacturing of vaccines).
Oh do, this I must see.I'll source every piece of that when you inevitably come back and tell my that I'm lying / making stuff up.
Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. And every day without fail one should consider himself as dead.Mistakes have finished my brothers
Mistakes will guide all the others
You're right... it's 'ethylmercury' or some other derivatives that are mercury based.
Let's look at the MSDS report for thimerisol : http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Thimerosal-9925236
Section 3 :
- (Irritant)Hazardous in case of skin contact, inhalation, ingestion. Severe overexposure can lead to death.
- The substance may be toxic to kidneys, liver, spleen, bone marrow, central nervous system (CNS).
- Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in one or many human
organs.
Later there's also mention of it's 'mutagenic effects on mammalian somatic cells'. Also in the transport information it must be labelled as toxic
Sure, one injection might not cause much harm... but how many vaccinations are on the governments list of 'mandatory vaccine recommendation list'??
Right, but that does not address the issue that the 'high priority' for vaccines were young children, expecting mothers and the elderly...There are risks associated with any medical procedure and vaccination is a medical procedure.
Between June 2006 and December 2008, over 23 million Gardasil vaccinations were given with just over 12,000 bad reactions reported. 4 of those were fatal. That is a .00001% chance of a fatal reaction and a 0.5% of a bad reaction at all
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/...16&uac=28013DZ
http://www.fluscam.com/Vaccine_Packa..._UCM182242.pdf
The insert itself alludes to how there's been inadequate safety testing, even more apparent on the insert for the vaccine given to Canadians, http://preventdisease.com/news/pdf/G...tober_2009.pdf
"Health Canada has authorized the sale of Arepanrix™ H1N1 based on limited clinical testing in humans"
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../UCM111263.pdfNow when you consider that Gardasil is used to treat HPV which is a good place to start for getting cervical cancer for women, which kills over 3,000 women per year in the US with about 11,000 new cases diagnosed every year.
Call me callous, but 4 to save 3,000....
GARDASIL has not been demonstrated to provide protection against disease from vaccine and non-vaccine HPV types to which a person has previously been exposed through sexual activity. (1.3) (14.3) (14.4)
That's right, it has not been demonstrated to protect against even the types of HPV virus that it's sold as necessary to defend against.
Because the it's the industry as a whole that NOT interested in health, but more in securing government contracts with liability protection to profit from these vaccines.I fail to see what deliberate product tampering has to do with this.
No, NOT 'tampering' it was being released for public distribution. The contractor that did the testing was the FINAL stage before this product was going to be injected in people.
'properly prepared' like that european bird flu vaccine was 'properly prepared' (minus the radiation treatment that was meant to kill the viruses).SV40 contamination is no longer a problem with properly prepared vaccines.
Baxter: Product contained live bird flu virus | Canada | News | Toronto Sun
I covered most of the links I was going to show anyway....Oh do, this I must see.
Let's look at another loving pharmaceutical giant : Bayer
Bayer Named In AIDS Suit - NYTimes.com
This drug for hemopheliacs was tainted with AIDS. Now, Bayer, being the good corporate citizens they are, knowing that the lot of factor 8 was tainted STOPPED supplying the drug in the US. THEN, they turned around and sold this tainted drug (KNOWING that everyone injected would be infected with AIDS) and sold it into markets overseas.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs"]YouTube- Bayer Exposed ( HIV Contaminated Vaccine )[/ame]
I could go on... the pharmaceutical industry has a long history of supplying 'vaccines' and drugs that can very well wind up worse then the disease they are attempting to treat / prevent.
Tell you what... You go get yourself vaccinated with every dose of drugs that's mandatorily recommended to you... and you will be protected. I will carry on taking my chances without, and you won't have to worry, because you've been vaccinated.
"They (the American people) are so good and so innocent, that they are almost criminally innocent." Hamid Gul.
This is part of why I cant stand the anti-vaccine crowd, you cant read your own ****ing sources.
Toxicity to Animals: Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 75 mg/kg [Rat].
That means that a 180lb human would have to consume 6 grams to hit the toxicity
The average vaccine that contains any mercuric compound at all contains 0.000025 grams.
Not enough to cause problems if you follow it. The fact that tens of thousands of people who were regularly vaccinated and suffered no deleterious effects is ample proof in that direction.Sure, one injection might not cause much harm... but how many vaccinations are on the governments list of 'mandatory vaccine recommendation list'??
Which makes sense as they are most at risk for catching the disease and have immune systems that function at a lower level than an adults.Right, but that does not address the issue that the 'high priority' for vaccines were young children, expecting mothers and the elderly...
If you would actually read what you posted, the rest of that paragraph statesThe insert itself alludes to how there's been inadequate safety testing, even more apparent on the insert for the vaccine given to Canadians, "Health Canada has authorized the sale of Arepanrix™ H1N1 based on limited clinical testing in humans"
"Health Canada has authorized the sale of Arepanrix™ H1N1 based on limited clinical testing in humans under the provision of an Interim Order (IO) issued on October 13, 2009. The authorization is based on the Health Canada review of the available data on quality, safety and immunogenicity, and given the current pandemic threat and its risk to human health, Health Canada considers that the benefit/risk profile of the Arepanrix™ H1N1 vaccine is favourable for active immunization against the H1N1 2009 influenza strain in an officially declared pandemic situation."
It was approved to combat a potential epidemic where the risks of a full blown epidemic were deemed worth the risks of TEMPORARILY allowing the drug to be used with less than normal human testing.
A vaccine is NEVER a guarantee, it is only improving your odds.GARDASIL has not been demonstrated to provide protection against disease from vaccine and non-vaccine HPV types to which a person has previously been exposed through sexual activity. (1.3) (14.3) (14.4)
That's right, it has not been demonstrated to protect against even the types of HPV virus that it's sold as necessary to defend against.
And again, I dont see where production stage tampering plays into this at all. It isnt Bayer's fault if someone slips cyanide capsules into Tylenol bottles.Because the it's the industry as a whole that NOT interested in health, but more in securing government contracts with liability protection to profit from these vaccines.
No, NOT 'tampering' it was being released for public distribution. The contractor that did the testing was the FINAL stage before this product was going to be injected in people.
Yes and that was a particularly egregious breach of the industry rules and regulations concerning the handling of such materials. Again what is your point with this? That companies make massive screw ups then try to cover them up? We knew that!'properly prepared' like that european bird flu vaccine was 'properly prepared' (minus the radiation treatment that was meant to kill the viruses).
Baxter: Product contained live bird flu virus | Canada | News | Toronto Sun
Yes, I'm familiar with the case. Bayer pulled a serious dick move to save money and they got caught and hammered for it. Lawsuits are still working their way through courts in Ireland and France with regards to that incident.Let's look at another loving pharmaceutical giant : Bayer
Bayer Named In AIDS Suit - NYTimes.com
This drug for hemopheliacs was tainted with AIDS. Now, Bayer, being the good corporate citizens they are, knowing that the lot of factor 8 was tainted STOPPED supplying the drug in the US. THEN, they turned around and sold this tainted drug (KNOWING that everyone injected would be infected with AIDS) and sold it into markets overseas.
But see, that's the thing, pharmaceutical companies are jerks, we know this. However they are not the topic at hand, the topic is vaccines themselves. Cold, hard statistics show time and time and TIME again that vaccines that go through the proper production and testing protocols are effective at reducing disease rates for the targeted disease.I could go on... the pharmaceutical industry has a long history of supplying 'vaccines' and drugs that can very well wind up worse then the disease they are attempting to treat / prevent.
That's the other thing, by NOT vaccinating, you put me at risk. Part of why vaccines work is because so many people have them that diseases cant get a foothold and spread. Diseases mutate on the small scale and can develop vaccine resistance (Hence why vaccines are not a guarantee.Tell you what... You go get yourself vaccinated with every dose of drugs that's mandatorily recommended to you... and you will be protected. I will carry on taking my chances without, and you won't have to worry, because you've been vaccinated.
Last edited by Hoplite; 03-10-10 at 05:38 PM.
Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. And every day without fail one should consider himself as dead.Mistakes have finished my brothers
Mistakes will guide all the others
Did we or did we not wipe out polio in the US by the use of vaccine? Seems to be that many are worth the associated risk. I've had my share of vaccines. I have not had the flu in 20 years. That is when I started getting the flu shot(s).
"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."
Cool Hand Luke - Warden
Here's the difference : it would take 6 grams to hit toxicity in the average sized person... but you're not EATING vaccines, you are injecting them into your system.
How many vaccines does the average child get before going to kindergarten?? 10-20? Especially in younger children where the blood-brain barrier is less developped.Not enough to cause problems if you follow it. The fact that tens of thousands of people who were regularly vaccinated and suffered no deleterious effects is ample proof in that direction.
There are millions of smokers out there who smoke cigarettes regularly without any deleterious effects... but there are some that get cancer and / or die. By that logic then cigarettes are 'safe' and if they offered medicinal benefits could even be sold as a 'good' thing with 'potential long-term side-effects'.
But are the group that is also most likely to suffer ill-effects from the vaccine... at least this time the swine flu vaccine wasn't quite as bad as the vaccine for the 1970's version.Which makes sense as they are most at risk for catching the disease and have immune systems that function at a lower level than an adults.
If you would actually read what you posted, the rest of that paragraph states
Ok, so show me the paper that shows that the normal human testing process has been completed. Actually, I'll try and find the source because there's someone that was offering 25 000$ to anyone that could show that this vaccine has been proven safe."Health Canada has authorized the sale of Arepanrix™ H1N1 based on limited clinical testing in humans under the provision of an Interim Order (IO) issued on October 13, 2009. The authorization is based on the Health Canada review of the available data on quality, safety and immunogenicity, and given the current pandemic threat and its risk to human health, Health Canada considers that the benefit/risk profile of the Arepanrix™ H1N1 vaccine is favourable for active immunization against the H1N1 2009 influenza strain in an officially declared pandemic situation."
It was approved to combat a potential epidemic where the risks of a full blown epidemic were deemed worth the risks of TEMPORARILY allowing the drug to be used with less than normal human testing.
So, your statement of '4 deaths to save 3000' a year is misleading as well. Since it 'improves your odds'... by how much? .00005%? 5%? 75%?A vaccine is NEVER a guarantee, it is only improving your odds.
I mean, if you end up with 4 deaths and the vaccine is a wash and you end up with 3000 dead within those that have been vaccinated, are you really offering a service?
Isn't that misleading on behalf of the marketers that sell the product on the grounds that it definitively DOES protect someone??
I mean, taking even a 1% chance to be guaranteed protection might be legitimate depending on a persons values. But, taking that same 1% chance for a 5% chance of protection is little better then 'cigarette' science.
1 - That's a different story... what I'm saying is that Baxter in that case, as analogy packaged a pile of 'cianide pills' labelled as tylenol. THAT IS their fault.And again, I dont see where production stage tampering plays into this at all. It isnt Bayer's fault if someone slips cyanide capsules into Tylenol bottles.
2 - They are legally required to follow certain lab protocols to ensure that this type of mistake is never supposed to happen. We're talking about EXCEPTIONAL levels of coinciding failures that led to the result of the contractor testing the product before shipping (at least he protected his own and humanities' collective behind).
3 - If you make ANY sort of product, YOU are liable for the quality control in the manufacturing of that product, and if it turns out that your product contains a fatal flaw, that WILL come back to the company. (Except for that most vaccine manufacturers secure governmental contracts with libility protection)
Exactly, all the while they continue to produce vaccines, land new contracts, etc. You're 0.00005% of bad reactions is turning into 'on good vaccines'Yes and that was a particularly egregious breach of the industry rules and regulations concerning the handling of such materials. Again what is your point with this? That companies make massive screw ups then try to cover them up? We knew that!
Yes, I'm familiar with the case. Bayer pulled a serious dick move to save money and they got caught and hammered for it. Lawsuits are still working their way through courts in Ireland and France with regards to that incident.
How can you HONESTLY seperate the producer from the product in such a way??? The fact of the matter is that with these big vaccine makers, the concern is with PROFITS NOT in health, that most of the time the product IS somewhat effective (although, virtually everyone I've talked to that gets a flu shot gets the flu in the days after). That trust is misplaced, because you'll never know if the batch getting injected in your arm was from a bad batch.But see, that's the thing, pharmaceutical companies are jerks, we know this. However they are not the topic at hand, the topic is vaccines themselves. Cold, hard statistics show time and time and TIME again that vaccines that go through the proper production and testing protocols are effective at reducing disease rates for the targeted disease.
This brings up the even greater fallacy of certain vaccines. The flu virus DOES mutate, even going from person to person... so, if there's a pandemic like the 'swine flu' that takes about 6 months to make a proper vaccine that is adequately tested, the actual virus has had 6 months worth of small scale mutations that have gone on and so the vaccine is to prevent you from the bug you would have caught MONTHS earlier.... SO, by the time the vaccine is there, the virus already has a foothold and has spread ANYWAY.That's the other thing, by NOT vaccinating, you put me at risk. Part of why vaccines work is because so many people have them that diseases cant get a foothold and spread. Diseases mutate on the small scale and can develop vaccine resistance (Hence why vaccines are not a guarantee.
I've heard of that 'herd immunity' idea before... and as you've admitted yourself the vaccines are not 100%, so EVEN vaccinating 100% of the people in the face of the pandemic won't even necessarily prevent the pandemic from occuring, because if 1% manages to catch the particular bug, then potentially it will mutate enough that the vaccine is inneffective.
"They (the American people) are so good and so innocent, that they are almost criminally innocent." Hamid Gul.
yeah, what good have vaccines ever done
small pox and polio weren't all that bad, we could have lived with them.
and we should cancel all vaccines because of a small percentage go wrong, here in Oz, most young women have recently had a vaccine against cervical cancer, but thats a bad idea, it may not work on a small percentage, so we should scrap it all together.
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