47 vertical support columns in core of each Twin Tower from bedrock to top floor

creativedreams · Jan 6, 2010

Let's talk about the 47 vertical steel support columns in the core of each Twin Tower that somehow cut themselves and blew out of the way fast enough all the way down for the top floor in each building to hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would hit the ground if dropped right beside them.

Perhaps we can also discuss how everything but the steel was exploded into a huge cloud of dust before it even hit the ground and settled over the city....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhyu-fZ2nRA"]YouTube- 9/11: South Tower "Collapse" video compilation[/ame]

creativedreams · Jan 6, 2010

While we're at it perhaps we can discuss the many vertical support columns in Building 7 that somehow cut themselves and blew out of the way fast enough all the way down for the top floor of the building to hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would hit the ground if dropped right beside it...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atbrn4k55lA"]YouTube- 9/11: WTC Building 7 "Collapse" video compilation[/ame]

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue · Jan 7, 2010

creativedreams said:
Let's talk about the 47 vertical steel support columns in the core of each Twin Tower that somehow cut themselves and blew out of the way fast enough all the way down for the top floor in each building to hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would hit the ground if dropped right beside them.

Perhaps we can also discuss how everything but the steel was exploded into a huge cloud of dust before it even hit the ground and settled over the city

Metal is MALLEABLE meaning when it gets hot it SOFTENS before melting at a greater temperature.

Therefore FIRE makes steel SOFT ... but the LOAD makes it SAG ... and FAIL !!!

http://www.corusconstruction.com/en...ctural_design/fire/steelwork_fire_resistance/

Steel doesn't have to melt into gloop to fail ...

If steel isn't affected by fire then WHY does EVERY set of building regulations in the Western world REQUIRE by law it to be protected ???

creativedreams · Jan 7, 2010

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue said:
Metal is MALLEABLE meaning when it gets hot it SOFTENS before melting at a greater temperature.

Therefore FIRE makes steel SOFT ... but the LOAD makes it SAG ... and FAIL !!!

http://www.corusconstruction.com/en...ctural_design/fire/steelwork_fire_resistance/

Steel doesn't have to melt into gloop to fail ...

If steel isn't affected by fire then WHY does EVERY set of building regulations in the Western world REQUIRE by law it to be protected ???

We are talking about close to 4 dozen core vertical steel columns in the core of the building that ran from bedrock to the top floor.

Skateguy · Jan 7, 2010

This is all being discussed in other threads, just so you are aware.

creativedreams · Jan 8, 2010

Here is more on the 47 vertical core columns that somehow cut themselves and moved out of the way fast enough all the way down to not provide resistance so the top floor of each building could hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would hit the ground if dropped right beside them.

Propaganda debunkers intentionally try and mislead by focusing on the perimeter floor trusses and NOT the central core columns that should have easily stood........unless of course explosives were used to blow them completely out of the way all the way down and in doing so pulverizing everything but the steel before it even hits the ground.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gohc5lMO5Q8"]YouTube- WTCCS Scenario - WTC 1 Collapse Arrest[/ame]

adsum · Jan 8, 2010

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue said:
Metal is MALLEABLE meaning when it gets hot it SOFTENS before melting at a greater temperature.

Therefore FIRE makes steel SOFT ... but the LOAD makes it SAG ... and FAIL !!!

http://www.corusconstruction.com/en...ctural_design/fire/steelwork_fire_resistance/

Steel doesn't have to melt into gloop to fail ...

If steel isn't affected by fire then WHY does EVERY set of building regulations in the Western world REQUIRE by law it to be protected ???

Steel is affected by fire, which is why it needs to be protected. Unprotected, however, it would take a fire burning days on end to cause failure, especially a complete collapse.

This fire in a building in Madrid was engulfed in flames for 20 hours, with fires contained to individual floors before spreading for even longer. A few floors collapsed on eachother, but after everything was said and done the building's structure remained.

Metal may soften, but in the time it took the WTC buildings to come down it is impossible for it to have been by fire. Period.

creativedreams · Jan 8, 2010

adsum said:
Steel is affected by fire, which is why it needs to be protected. Unprotected, however, it would take a fire burning days on end to cause failure, especially a complete collapse.

This fire in a building in Madrid was engulfed in flames for 20 hours, with fires contained to individual floors before spreading for even longer. A few floors collapsed on eachother, but after everything was said and done the building's structure remained.

Metal may soften, but in the time it took the WTC buildings to come down it is impossible for it to have been by fire. Period.

What is even more interesting is the World Trade Center Buildings happened to go through many months of construction renovations and some of which was replacing fireproofing on the very support columns that failed on 9/11.

Skateguy · Jan 8, 2010

creativedreams said:
What is even more interesting is the World Trade Center Buildings happened to go through many months of construction renovations and some of which was replacing fireproofing on the very support columns that failed on 9/11.

Only guessing here, so don't get excited--but what a perfect time to do a little "tampering":mrgreen:

creativedreams · Jan 8, 2010

Skateguy said:
Only guessing here, so don't get excited--but what a perfect time to do a little "tampering":mrgreen:

Yes and it even gets better yet.....

The CEO for the construction company that did the many months of construction renovations throughout the World Trade Center complex went on to be appointed by Bush to the President's Commission on Whitehouse Fellows.

There is more where this came from.

Skateguy · Jan 8, 2010

creativedreams said:
Yes and it even gets better yet.....

The CEO for the construction company that did the many months of construction renovations throughout the World Trade Center complex went on to be appointed by Bush to the President's Commission on Whitehouse Fellows.

There is more where this came from.

I have read it also--I don't want to give to much information all at once---don't want people to choke on their Cheerios. --Stay strong, your right on target.

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue · Jan 10, 2010

adsum said:
Steel is affected by fire, which is why it needs to be protected. Unprotected, however, it would take a fire burning days on end to cause failure, especially a complete collapse.

This fire in a building in Madrid was engulfed in flames for 20 hours, with fires contained to individual floors before spreading for even longer. A few floors collapsed on eachother, but after everything was said and done the building's structure remained.

Metal may soften, but in the time it took the WTC buildings to come down it is impossible for it to have been by fire. Period.

Ah! but Adsum there is one teeny wee flaw in your claim.

The Windsor Tower was NOT a steel-framed building !!!

Th Madrid building totalled 32 storeys ... with 29 floors above ground and 3 below.

With it being constructed WHOLLY in CONCRETE up to the 16th floor ...

CONCRETE CORE AND CONCRETE PERIMETER COLUMNS !!!

Above that was a central support system of CONCRETE columns ... supporting CONCRETE floors with STEEL perimeter columns.

An additional feature was the presence of two "technical floors" ... CONCRETE floors designed to give the building more strength.

One was just above the ground level and the other at the 17th floor

And the ONLY part of the building to suffer complete collapse was the network of STEEL perimeter columns above the 17th floor ... the CONCRETE core surviving !!!

The steel collapsed very soon into the fire ... yet despite being engulfed the CONCRETE MAJORITY SURVIVED.

But the steel part TOTALLY COLLAPSED ... but since when have real facts meant anything in Conspiracyville ???

Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Myths - Madrid/Windsor Tower

Case Studies: Historical Fires: Windsor Tower Fire

Windsor Building, Madrid

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue · Jan 10, 2010

adsum said:
Unprotected, however, it would take a fire burning days on end to cause failure, especially a complete collapse.

So by your assertion it would take LONGER for "uprotected"steel to fail ... am I correct ... that is clearly what you are saying ???

adsum said:
This fire in a building in Madrid was engulfed in flames for 20 hours, with fires contained to individual floors before spreading for even longer. A few floors collapsed on eachother, but after everything was said and done the building's structure remained.

You obviously NEVER read your own link ... Mace CLEARLY state that it was the CONCRETE which remained intact

Construction Type: Reinforced concrete core with waffle slabs supported by internal RC columns and steel beams, with perimeter steel columns which were unprotected above the 17th Floor level at the time of the fire.

A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed

On the other hand, the reinforced concrete central core, columns, waffle slabs and transfer structures performed very well in such a severe fire

You just debunked yourself and never realized !!!

adsum · Jan 10, 2010

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue said:
Ah! but Adsum there is one teeny wee flaw in your claim.

The Windsor Tower was NOT a steel-framed building !!!

Th Madrid building totalled 32 storeys ... with 29 floors above ground and 3 below.

With it being constructed WHOLLY in CONCRETE up to the 16th floor ...

CONCRETE CORE AND CONCRETE PERIMETER COLUMNS !!!

Above that was a central support system of CONCRETE columns ... supporting CONCRETE floors with STEEL perimeter columns.

An additional feature was the presence of two "technical floors" ... CONCRETE floors designed to give the building more strength.

One was just above the ground level and the other at the 17th floor

And the ONLY part of the building to suffer complete collapse was the network of STEEL perimeter columns above the 17th floor ... the CONCRETE core surviving !!!

The steel collapsed very soon into the fire ... yet despite being engulfed the CONCRETE MAJORITY SURVIVED.

But the steel part TOTALLY COLLAPSED ... but since when have real facts meant anything in Conspiracyville ???

Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Myths - Madrid/Windsor Tower

Case Studies: Historical Fires: Windsor Tower Fire

Windsor Building, Madrid

Ok, my bad. It was mostly concrete with steel supports, but all of the steel supports did not completely fail, and the ones that did were unprotected steel. Unprotected steel is much weaker than protected, which is what was in the WTC.

And Gaze At The Blue, I clearly had an "un" where I didn't mean there to be one.

Despite my mistakes in that last post, (last time I multi-task while posting to a thread) arguing concrete cores holding up to a fire lasting that long doesn't make your case for the planes bringing down the WTC. Since it IS in fact so strong and fireproof, how do you suppose it was pulverized as the buildings fell?

Skateguy · Jan 10, 2010

I have yet to read any where, where there was a claim that the central columns were weakened, prior to the collapse. Only that the horizontal supports for the floors were weakened. this would of course, not affect the core itself, which along with the outer walls, should still be standing there, even if floorless.

DrunkenAsparagus · Jan 10, 2010

The building in Madrid also didn't have a plane crash into it, blowing off much of the fireproofing

adsum · Jan 10, 2010

DrunkenAsparagus said:
The building in Madrid also didn't have a plane crash into it, blowing off much of the fireproofing

Right. So what exactly are you saying? The plane accounts for concrete pulverizing itself?

DrunkenAsparagus · Jan 10, 2010

adsum said:
Right. So what exactly are you saying? The plane accounts for concrete pulverizing itself?

No, that would be the millions of tons of concrete accelerating while falling on itself

Porchev · Jan 10, 2010

creativedreams said:
Let's talk about the 47 vertical steel support columns in the core of each Twin Tower that somehow cut themselves and blew out of the way fast enough all the way down for the top floor in each building to hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would hit the ground if dropped right beside them.

Perhaps we can also discuss how everything but the steel was exploded into a huge cloud of dust before it even hit the ground and settled over the city....

[]

I think it was from King Kong standing on the towers back in the day that weakened it, also Jeff Bridges and Jessica Lange planted charges on the support columns in the 70s, but it didn't require a lot because sometimes when they shot at King Kong they missed and shot up the buildings. :lol:

Skateguy · Jan 10, 2010

Porchev said:
I think it was from King Kong standing on the towers back in the day that weakened it, also Jeff Bridges and Jessica Lange planted charges on the support columns in the 70s, but it didn't require a lot because sometimes when they shot at King Kong they missed and shot up the buildings. :lol:

Finally--the voice of reason chimes in---good job.

creativedreams · Jan 10, 2010

Skateguy said:
I have yet to read any where, where there was a claim that the central columns were weakened, prior to the collapse. Only that the horizontal supports for the floors were weakened. this would of course, not affect the core itself, which along with the outer walls, should still be standing there, even if floorless.

Exactly.....follow the connection trail to the propaganda that is intentionally misleading.

The propaganda spewed via the vehicles of...History Channel and Popular Mechanics target average couch potato Americans too lazy to do their own research and intentionally mislead by focusing on the floor trusses and ignoring the many vertical support columns that run from bedrock to the top floor in the core.

Somehow these core columns were blown out of the way fast enough all the way down for the top floor to hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would.

Skateguy · Jan 10, 2010

creativedreams said:
Exactly.....follow the connection trail to the propaganda that is intentionally misleading.

The propaganda spewed via the vehicles of...History Channel and Popular Mechanics target average couch potato Americans too lazy to do their own research and intentionally mislead by focusing on the floor trusses and ignoring the many vertical support columns that run from bedrock to the top floor in the core.

Somehow these core columns were blown out of the way fast enough all the way down for the top floor to hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would.

If there is another way to physically bring down those 47 massive columns, I'm all ears. The floors supports, are like limbs on a tree. the columns, are like the trees trunk. all the limbs can fall, but the trunk would remain. --I like that one. Just came up with that.

creativedreams · Jan 10, 2010

Skateguy said:
If there is another way to physically bring down those 47 massive columns, I'm all ears. The floors supports, are like limbs on a tree. the columns, are like the trees trunk. all the limbs can fall, but the trunk would remain. --I like that one. Just came up with that.

That is a good analogy....

Skateguy · Jan 10, 2010

creativedreams said:
That is a good analogy....

this is easy. It all just adds up. No need to make anything up. the facts are right in front of our noses. ---they just made us focus on the darn floors, and ignored the root of the problem. Getting rid of those columns. which no one can explain away it seems.---Just like no one will address the lack of remaining fuel, after the fireballs. ---I think we got this one.

deltabtry · Jan 10, 2010

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue said:
Metal is MALLEABLE meaning when it gets hot it SOFTENS before melting at a greater temperature.

Therefore FIRE makes steel SOFT ... but the LOAD makes it SAG ... and FAIL !!!

http://www.corusconstruction.com/en...ctural_design/fire/steelwork_fire_resistance/

Steel doesn't have to melt into gloop to fail ...

If steel isn't affected by fire then WHY does EVERY set of building regulations in the Western world REQUIRE by law it to be protected ???

I will piggy back on your comment by saying also those steel beams were not you standard steel beams , but specialize light weight beams, meaning that it will melt quicker than standard steel beams.

47 vertical support columns in core of each Twin Tower from bedrock to top floor

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