Claim: Obama's "birth certificate" forged with sister Maya's original

bhkad · 08-10-08, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Claim: Obama's "birth certificate" forged with sister Maya's original
By Israel Insider staff August 5, 2008

Independent analysts, working separately, claim to have discovered that the original Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth used in the fabrication of the Barack Obama "birth certificate" belongs to the Presidential candidate's younger half-sister, Maya.

Examining the high resolution image originally posted by the "Daily Kos" left-wing blog and subsequently claimed as authentic by the campaign, and posted in lower resolution on the campaign official "Fight the Smears" website, at least two analysts have been able to independently discern the name "Maya Kassandra Soetoro" from artifacts left behind in the process of forging a new fake document for Barack from an image of Maya's original document. Additional confirmatory information, such as her birthday and the nationality of her father have also been resurrected. A full report documenting all details is to be published in the coming days. Israel Insider has not yet seen proof that would validate the claim.

The dramatic claim comes just a day after a forensic specialist, posting on the Texas Darlin blog under the name Techdude (his real name is known to Israel Insider), announced the discovery of the identity of the original owner of the COLB document used in the forgery but would initially only indicate that it was a woman born in the 1970's. However, he provided enough clues to enable another graphic specialist (screen name KG) to independently reproduce the incriminating evidence. (Techdude had said that he wanted to give the guilty parties time to confess to the forgery, but also to allow independent confirmation of his discovery. He even offered to pay for a trip to Vegas to the first person to discover the name and detail the method by which it was discovered.)

israelinsider: politics: Claim: Obama's "birth certificate" forged with sister Maya's original

Much more at link.

Such as what?

How about...

A BIG HI-RES IMAGE OF THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE THERE MIGHT BE EVIDENCE OF TAMPERING!

I'm not saying it is or it ain't, but it sure wouldn't surprise me either way, now that I've gotten over the initial shock.

Arcana XV · 08-10-08, 11:46 AM

This makes absolutely no sense. Obama's sister was born in Jakarta, Indonesia. Her birth certificate would have been issued in Indonesia and therefore could not have been used to create a forgery of a Hawaiian birth certificate.

1069 · 08-10-08, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Independent analysts, working separately, claim to have discovered that the original Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth used in the fabrication of the Barack Obama "birth certificate" belongs to the Presidential candidate's younger half-sister, Maya.

Right away, your article presupposes that it's an acknowledged and accepted fact that Obama's birth certificate is fabricated, and that the only mystery now is how this fraud was perpetrated. Which is far from clear to me.

To what end would Obama's birth certificate be tampered with?
Are you suggesting he wasn't born? That Stanley Dunham wasn't his mother?
That he's actually older or younger than he claims to be?

Even if the birth certificate were tampered with, how does that reflect poorly on Obama?
Perhaps his mother did it when he was a baby, for reasons he has no knowledge about.
I know that at the time Obama was born, many states still put the word "illegitimate" on the birth certificates of babies born to unmarried parents, and it was not uncommon that a mother would try to remove this word somehow, to avoid society's placing a social stigma on her child in later life.

We already know, however, that Obama's parents' marriage may not have been considered legitimate. Miscegenation laws were still in effect in many states (although not Hawaii) at the time of Obama's birth, and therefore the marriage would not have been recognized in those states. Further, Obama's father was likely already legally married to a woman in Africa at the time he married Stanley Ann, making their marriage legally suspect, since plural marriage is against the law in the US.
It hardly seems to matter; Obama's dad left shortly after his birth, and he only ever saw the man once in his entire life, for a brief visit when he was ten.

If you're suggesting that Obama's birth might've taken place somewhere besides the US (unlikely; I don't think Stanley had ever been out of the US at the time of her son's birth. She was still in college), that really doesn't matter either; his mother's a US citizen and so is he.
If you're suggesting Stanley Ann might not be his real mother, that's ludicrous as well. Obama's grandmother is still alive in Hawaii, and they can be DNA tested to show their common bloodline. Even his mother can still be DNA tested, even though she's deceased. They can get DNA from her bone marrow.

So I'm not sure what to make of this accusation. It just seems silly to me.
Obama stands to gain nothing by falsifying his own birth certificate, and if his family did it when he was little (the circumstances surrounding his birth were admittedly complex, and his family was aware- and a little paranoid- that little Barry might face discrimination because of his racial makeup, his absent foreign father, etc), I'm sure they had a reason which seemed valid at the time, and that Barack knew nothing about it. I'm sure the reason was not that they believed he'd be running for president forty-seven years down the line.

Lightdemon · 08-10-08, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069

Right away, your article presupposes that it's an acknowledged and accepted fact that Obama's birth certificate is fabricated, and that the only mystery now is how this fraud was perpetrated. Which is far from clear to me.

To what end would Obama's birth certificate be tampered with?
Are you suggesting he wasn't born? That Stanley Dunham wasn't his mother?
That he's actually older or younger than he claims to be?

Even if the birth certificate were tampered with, how does that reflect poorly on Obama?
Perhaps his mother did it when he was a baby, for reasons he has no knowledge about.
I know that at the time Obama was born, many states still put the word "illegitimate" on the birth certificates of babies born to unmarried parents, and it was not uncommon that a mother would try to remove this word somehow, to avoid society's placing a social stigma on her child in later life.

We already know, however, that Obama's parents' marriage may not have been considered legitimate. Miscegenation laws were still in effect in many states (although not Hawaii) at the time of Obama's birth, and therefore the marriage would not have been recognized in those states. Further, Obama's father was likely already legally married to a woman in Africa at the time he married Stanley Ann, making their marriage legally suspect, since plural marriage is against the law in the US.
It hardly seems to matter; Obama's dad left shortly after his birth, and he only ever saw the man once in his entire life, for a brief visit when he was ten.

If you're suggesting that Obama's birth might've taken place somewhere besides the US (unlikely; I don't think Stanley had ever been out of the US at the time of her son's birth. She was still in college), that really doesn't matter either; his mother's a US citizen and so is he.
If you're suggesting Stanley Ann might not be his real mother, that's ludicrous as well. Obama's grandmother is still alive in Hawaii, and they can be DNA tested to show their common bloodline. Even his mother can still be DNA tested, even though she's deceased. They can get DNA from her bone marrow.

So I'm not sure what to make of this accusation. It just seems silly to me.
Obama stands to gain nothing by falsifying his own birth certificate, and if his family did it when he was little (the circumstances surrounding his birth were admittedly complex, and his family was aware- and a little paranoid- that little Barry might face discrimination because of his racial makeup, his absent foreign father, etc), I'm sure they had a reason which seemed valid at the time, and that Barack knew nothing about it. I'm sure the reason was not that they believed he'd be running for president forty-seven years down the line.

What are the chances of this thread being an attempt to parallel the forged memo that connected 9/11 to Iraq?

PeteEU · 08-10-08, 02:03 PM

And the pattern continues.

There was the madrassa smear
There was/is the Hussien smear
Then there was the "he a muslim" smear
Then there was the "he is a communist, Marxist or socialist" smear (bearing in mind the 3 are very different)
And now there is the "he not an American smear"? Or is that he is hiding something smear?

Seems the right have no traction on the issues, so they have to go negative to even stand a chance in beating him. So they are rallying the homophobes, racists, islamophobes and xenophobes to fight off Obama.... sad how low the republican party has fallen.

rsixing · 08-10-08, 02:10 PM

...and another "Enquirer" mentality thread. Good job bhkad...

CaptainCourtesy · 08-10-08, 03:03 PM

I am disappointed, bhkad. This is a silly partisan attack. 10 is correct. The article makes the assumption that the birth certificate has been tampered with and then tries to show how. This is the "how often do you beat your wife" logical fallacy. Further, since his mother was an American citizen, it is irrelevant as to where he was born, if the attempt of the article is to cast doubt on his citizenship. You are pretty smart and I'd think you would see through the absurdity and the pure partisan hackery of this article.

Someone give me a reason to not move this to "Conspiracy Theories".

Lerxst · 08-10-08, 03:15 PM

I can find no reason not to move it.

TacticalEvilDan · 08-10-08, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

israelinsider: politics: Claim: Obama's "birth certificate" forged with sister Maya's original

Much more at link.

Such as what?

How about...

A BIG HI-RES IMAGE OF THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE THERE MIGHT BE EVIDENCE OF TAMPERING!

I'm not saying it is or it ain't, but it sure wouldn't surprise me either way, now that I've gotten over the initial shock.

Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second.

So, the Israel Insider's sources are screen names on a web site?

Are you seriously telling me that I should seriously be taking individuals who hide behind the anonymity of the Interwebz seriously when they accuse a major party's Presidential candidate of falsifying evidence of his natural-birth citizenship?

Seriously?

TacticalEvilDan · 08-10-08, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy

I am disappointed, bhkad. This is a silly partisan attack. 10 is correct. The article makes the assumption that the birth certificate has been tampered with and then tries to show how. This is the "how often do you beat your wife" logical fallacy. Further, since his mother was an American citizen, it is irrelevant as to where he was born, if the attempt of the article is to cast doubt on his citizenship. You are pretty smart and I'd think you would see through the absurdity and the pure partisan hackery of this article.

Someone give me a reason to not move this to "Conspiracy Theories".

To be honest, I think "partisan attack" is a bit cliche, and also not accurate in this case.

This isn't even about political philosophy, where the Democrats are arguing that the Republicans want to starve children by denying them free breakfast at school, or the Republicans are arguing that the Democrats are soft on crime because, or however you want to frame how they behave towards one another.

This is about a campaign of smears and whispers. The people repeating them don't admit to believing them, but they repeat them as often as possible so that maybe someone somewhere will start to take it even a little bit seriously and maybe pass it on themselves.

In other words, it's an assault on Barack Obama's candidacy not based on his policies or ideas but based on lies, obfuscation, defamation of character, and cowardly behavior.

We shouldn't refer to cowardice as "partisan."