How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been [W:3]

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

PolitBoxer

From I source I rarely use.

Nanothermite: If It Doesn’t Fit, You Must Acquit! | Veterans Today

"He gave a range of numbers, based on lower and higher concentrations of the thermite formulation. His lowest figure amounted to 29,000 metric tons of thermitic explosive per tower – a value hundreds of times greater than the calculation for conventional explosives. His “conservative” estimate (based on 10% iron-oxide in the thermitic material) was 143,000 metric tons of thermitic material that would have been placed in each tower. But let’s be realistic: How could the perpetrators drag in and plant over 100,000 tons of explosive without being seen? Even 29,000 tons is hard to imagine and would have been rather difficult to put in place unnoticed."

Sorry even CT supporting sites don't back up your stance.

You fell for the graph. Not a very good match to nthermite.)

What is your take on Jeff Prager work on mini neutron bombs that he claims were used and not nano thermite.?

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Tigerace117 said:

The Germans were very fond of false flag operations during WW2.

Various other groups used them at one point or another.

9/11, however, wasn't a false flag operation so I don't know why your bringing it up. There's exactly zero credible evidence that that was the case.

Click to expand...

So to your knowledge, the U.S. has never knowingly engaged in a false flag event to deceive and manipulate the citizenry??

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

wist43 said:

So to your knowledge, the U.S. has never knowingly engaged in a false flag event to deceive and manipulate the citizenry??

Click to expand...

Strawman alert
Strawman alert
:scared:

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

wist43 said:

So to your knowledge, the U.S. has never knowingly engaged in a false flag event to deceive and manipulate the citizenry??

Click to expand...

Not that was actually attempted, no. People like to call Gulf of Tonkin a false flag but that's not really true. Watergate doesn't really count either.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Tigerace117 said:

Not that was actually attempted, no. People like to call Gulf of Tonkin a false flag but that's not really true. Watergate doesn't really count either.

Click to expand...

I would reword the statement to "the U.S. government as a whole has not conducted a false-flag operation to manipulate the people, and there is no evidence that the president and his staff have done so, either. However, there are elements within the U.S. government that may well have done so."

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Glen Contrarian said:

I would reword the statement to "the U.S. government as a whole has not conducted a false-flag operation to manipulate the people, and there is no evidence that the president and his staff have done so, either. However, there are elements within the U.S. government that may well have done so."

Click to expand...

But 9/11 wasn't a false flag, so overall it's academic.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Mark F said:

Not Northwoods or any of the other 16 related proposals from the same period that CT's don't know about (don't show up on the 1st page of a Google search) that were also immediately round filed.

I've always been fascinated how Operation Northwoods - an example of how da gubmint rejects inside-jobs is the CT's best evidence that da gubmint does inside-jobs.

And they don't see that rather obvious fact

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..................................That is one of the most massive contradictions I have ever witnessed.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Abbazorkzog said:

..................................That is one of the most massive contradictions I have ever witnessed.

Click to expand...

Well come on then, don't hold back. Do tell.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Tigerace117 said:

Not that was actually attempted, no. People like to call Gulf of Tonkin a false flag but that's not really true. Watergate doesn't really count either.

Click to expand...

There are a few varieties of false flags, the most common are those that the government is aware of, but for the purposes of advancing an agenda they allow the event to take place without doing anything to stop or warn anyone.

Technically, Pearl Harbor would fall under that definition as it is well known that the Roosevelt administration was fully aware that the Japanese fleet was on its way. In the months leading up to the attack, the commanders in Hawaii had repeatedly requested more resources to defend themselves in case of an attack, and were denied each time. Of course the Roosevelt administration placed all of the blame on Admiral Husband Kimmel and Lt. General Walter Short.

These men had their reputations and careers destroyed in the most despicable fashion. Both men demanded court martials, and were repeatedly denied b/c the government did not want the facts surrounding the treasonous betrayal of the Roosevelt administration to be exposed. Eventually they did get their day in court.

This is an excellent article on the subject.

Pearl Harbor: Scapegoating Kimmel and Short

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Also falling under the definition of letting an event go forward are more recent terrorist attacks - The Oklahoma City Bombing, and the '93 attack on the WTC. Both events led to court cases which exposed the fact that the FBI was fully informed about the pending attacks - and in the case of the '93 WTC attack, actually gave aid and assistance to the terrorists.

The court cases were the trial of FBI informant Carol Howe (OKC Bombing), and the trial of one of the conspirators (Emad Salam being the informant). Salam, unknown to his FBI handlers had recorded all of their meetings.

"The tapes offer a rare glimpse into the sensitive relationship between the confidential informer and the law-enforcement officals with whom he worked. They also reveal for the first time how Federal and police agents instructed him to "pump up" a suspect for information and negotiate a $1 million fee from the Government for his services.

Scattered through the hundreds of pages of transcripts are many instances in which the Government agents appear to encourage Mr. Salem to lead the suspects to incriminate themselves."

Tapes in Bombing Plot Show Informer and F.B.I. at Odds - NYTimes.com

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Then there is Operation Gladio - which was proven in European courts that the United States (CIA), Great Britain (MI-6), and Israel (Mossad) had been, for over 40 years, engaged in funding, training, supplying, and actually conducting themselves - terrorist attacks throughout Europe and eastern Europe, for the purpose of blaming the communists to justify NATO's existence and to try and expand police state powers over the people of Europe.

After the trials in the 80's and 90's, Gladio never ceased operations. Over time they simply shifted their focus from the communists being the boogieman, to Muslim terrorists being the boogieman.

The bottom line is - western intelligence agencies always have their fingers in every terrorist pie.

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Once you understand how and why false flags are used by governments - throughout history in fact - the logic of it becomes apparent.

Unfortunately, even though some of these cases and facts do find their way into some MSM reporting, the truly damning facts are buried and the overall story is soft-peddled and short-lived. Unless someone is willing to dig and read on their own non-MSM, and non-Establishment published books, they will never be able to see what is really going on.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

wist43 said:

There are a few varieties of false flags, the most common are those that the government is aware of, but for the purposes of advancing an agenda they allow the event to take place without doing anything to stop or warn anyone.

Technically, Pearl Harbor would fall under that definition as it is well known that the Roosevelt administration was fully aware that the Japanese fleet was on its way. In the months leading up to the attack, the commanders in Hawaii had repeatedly requested more resources to defend themselves in case of an attack, and were denied each time. Of course the Roosevelt administration placed all of the blame on Admiral Husband Kimmel and Lt. General Walter Short.

These men had their reputations and careers destroyed in the most despicable fashion. Both men demanded court martials, and were repeatedly denied b/c the government did not want the facts surrounding the treasonous betrayal of the Roosevelt administration to be exposed. Eventually they did get their day in court.

This is an excellent article on the subject.

Pearl Harbor: Scapegoating Kimmel and Short

------------------------------------------------------------------

Also falling under the definition of letting an event go forward are more recent terrorist attacks - The Oklahoma City Bombing, and the '93 attack on the WTC. Both events led to court cases which exposed the fact that the FBI was fully informed about the pending attacks - and in the case of the '93 WTC attack, actually gave aid and assistance to the terrorists.

The court cases were the trial of FBI informant Carol Howe (OKC Bombing), and the trial of one of the conspirators (Emad Salam being the informant). Salam, unknown to his FBI handlers had recorded all of their meetings.

"The tapes offer a rare glimpse into the sensitive relationship between the confidential informer and the law-enforcement officals with whom he worked. They also reveal for the first time how Federal and police agents instructed him to "pump up" a suspect for information and negotiate a $1 million fee from the Government for his services.

Scattered through the hundreds of pages of transcripts are many instances in which the Government agents appear to encourage Mr. Salem to lead the suspects to incriminate themselves."

Tapes in Bombing Plot Show Informer and F.B.I. at Odds - NYTimes.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Then there is Operation Gladio - which was proven in European courts that the United States (CIA), Great Britain (MI-6), and Israel (Mossad) had been, for over 40 years, engaged in funding, training, supplying, and actually conducting themselves - terrorist attacks throughout Europe and eastern Europe, for the purpose of blaming the communists to justify NATO's existence and to try and expand police state powers over the people of Europe.

After the trials in the 80's and 90's, Gladio never ceased operations. Over time they simply shifted their focus from the communists being the boogieman, to Muslim terrorists being the boogieman.

The bottom line is - western intelligence agencies always have their fingers in every terrorist pie.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Once you understand how and why false flags are used by governments - throughout history in fact - the logic of it becomes apparent.

Unfortunately, even though some of these cases and facts do find their way into some MSM reporting, the truly damning facts are buried and the overall story is soft-peddled and short-lived. Unless someone is willing to dig and read on their own non-MSM, and non-Establishment published books, they will never be able to see what is really going on.

Click to expand...

Well, let's start with Gladio. That was a stay behind unit in case the Soviet Union invaded and overran Western Europe. They had networks in just about every NATO country. I had already known about them for a while now---ever since I heard about the one time the Dutch stumbled on an arms cache buried out in the countryside---but it's hardly a "false flag" operation.

Pearl Harbor also wouldn't really count as a false flag, seeing as, you know, the most important thing about a false flag attack is that the enemy isn't the one actually attacking you---and I highly doubt the US had a fleet of Asians who could plausibly impersonate Japanese pilots.

General Short and Admiral Kimmel were both at the best negligent in their duties, and the result was tragic for the battleships. Doesn't mean it was a false flag. After all, we had cracked Purple, and we did know the Japanese were going to strike, but we didn't know where they were going to strike

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Glen Contrarian said:

I would reword the statement to "the U.S. government as a whole has not conducted a false-flag operation to manipulate the people, and there is no evidence that the president and his staff have done so, either. However, there are elements within the U.S. government that may well have done so."

Click to expand...

Elements within the US government is the key phrase, and very important. The US government was hijacked many years ago. The barbarians have been inside the gates for decades.

Dov Zakheim went to work at DoD when Reagan was president.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Tigerace117 said:

Well, let's start with Gladio. That was a stay behind unit in case the Soviet Union invaded and overran Western Europe. They had networks in just about every NATO country. I had already known about them for a while now---ever since I heard about the one time the Dutch stumbled on an arms cache buried out in the countryside---but it's hardly a "false flag" operation.

Pearl Harbor also wouldn't really count as a false flag, seeing as, you know, the most important thing about a false flag attack is that the enemy isn't the one actually attacking you---and I highly doubt the US had a fleet of Asians who could plausibly impersonate Japanese pilots.

General Short and Admiral Kimmel were both at the best negligent in their duties, and the result was tragic for the battleships. Doesn't mean it was a false flag. After all, we had cracked Purple, and we did know the Japanese were going to strike, but we didn't know where they were going to strike

Click to expand...

You have a very limited and superficial understanding of these events - which is my point in saying you need to dig and read. I give examples of court cases where some of these facts came out, and you regurgitate the Establishment line?? That's just lazy, if not head in the sand.

As I said, false flags take different forms... an event that takes place with government knowledge, but is allowed to proceed for agenda purposes, IS a false flag. Webster Tarpley refers to them as Let It Happen On Purpose (LIHOP) events. Pearl Harbor certainly falls under that definition - and I have news for you, the Roosevelt administration knew full well where and when the attack was going to happen.

It was after the fact that Roosevelt and communist traitor, General George Marshall sent messages to Pearl to cover their asses. If you understand the history of that era and the Roosevelt administration, you would know that Roosevelt's administration and government agencies at that time were teeming with communist agents and moles. The principle motivations for the Establishment in bringing WW II to fruition were, 1) founding of the UN, i.e. the framework for their "dreamed of world government", and 2) the spread of communism.

Alger Hiss was the only one ultimately convicted in the 50's, but Harry Dexter White, Harry Hopkins, George Marshall, Lauchlin Curry, Owen Lattimore (who played a major role in effecting the handover of China to the communists), David Niles, etc... were major players in shaping Roosevelt administration policy, getting us into the war, and effecting the spread of communism in Eastern Europe and China.

Pearl Harbor was the, as Dov Zakheim would later phrase it, "the catalyzing event" that propelled us into the war. "Catalyzing events" are for public consumption - to push the masses into accepting the Establishment's agenda - even cheering for it, as was the case with both the formation of the UN, passage of The Patriot Act, and invasion of Iraq and Afganistan.

As Zakheim wrote in "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" which was published by The Project for a New American Century in September 2000, exactly a year before 9/11.

On page 51 of this article, it is stated that "the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor". That "catastrophic" event of course was 9/11.

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As for Gladio, there are some documentaries out there, most are pretty old now - as Gladio was exposed in the 80's and 90's, but the information is in there. Gladio may have started out as a "stay behind operation", but it morphed into a false flag, i.e. a government sponsored terrorist organization. This is born out in the facts and testimony of the few cases (which are just the tip of the iceberg) that did go to court.

The U.S. and our western allies were directly involved in untold numbers of bombings and terrorist attacks throughout Europe. This is not in dispute. It is certainly not reported in the MSM, or at least most of it, the BBC notwithstanding, and it is certainly not included in any mainstream, Establishment published books and textbooks. It is nonetheless, true and verifiable.



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Here is a video of Emad Salam talking with one of his FBI handlers, and building bombs with some of the terrorists.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

wist43 said:

You have a very limited and superficial understanding of these events - which is my point in saying you need to dig and read. I give examples of court cases where some of these facts came out, and you regurgitate the Establishment line?? That's just lazy, if not head in the sand.

As I said, false flags take different forms... an event that takes place with government knowledge, but is allowed to proceed for agenda purposes, IS a false flag. Webster Tarpley refers to them as Let It Happen On Purpose (LIHOP) events. Pearl Harbor certainly falls under that definition - and I have news for you, the Roosevelt administration knew full well where and when the attack was going to happen.

It was after the fact that Roosevelt and communist traitor, General George Marshall sent messages to Pearl to cover their asses. If you understand the history of that era and the Roosevelt administration, you would know that Roosevelt's administration and government agencies at that time were teeming with communist agents and moles. The principle motivations for the Establishment in bringing WW II to fruition were, 1) founding of the UN, i.e. the framework for their "dreamed of world government", and 2) the spread of communism.

Alger Hiss was the only one ultimately convicted in the 50's, but Harry Dexter White, Harry Hopkins, George Marshall, Lauchlin Curry, Owen Lattimore (who played a major role in effecting the handover of China to the communists), David Niles, etc... were major players in shaping Roosevelt administration policy, getting us into the war, and effecting the spread of communism in Eastern Europe and China.

Pearl Harbor was the, as Dov Zakheim would later phrase it, "the catalyzing event" that propelled us into the war. "Catalyzing events" are for public consumption - to push the masses into accepting the Establishment's agenda - even cheering for it, as was the case with both the formation of the UN, passage of The Patriot Act, and invasion of Iraq and Afganistan.

As Zakheim wrote in "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" which was published by The Project for a New American Century in September 2000, exactly a year before 9/11.

On page 51 of this article, it is stated that "the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor". That "catastrophic" event of course was 9/11.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Gladio, there are some documentaries out there, most are pretty old now - as Gladio was exposed in the 80's and 90's, but the information is in there. Gladio may have started out as a "stay behind operation", but it morphed into a false flag, i.e. a government sponsored terrorist organization. This is born out in the facts and testimony of the few cases (which are just the tip of the iceberg) that did go to court.

The U.S. and our western allies were directly involved in untold numbers of bombings and terrorist attacks throughout Europe. This is not in dispute. It is certainly not reported in the MSM, or at least most of it, the BBC notwithstanding, and it is certainly not included in any mainstream, Establishment published books and textbooks. It is nonetheless, true and verifiable.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a video of Emad Salam talking with one of his FBI handlers, and building bombs with some of the terrorists.

Click to expand...

Your calling George Marshall a communist traitor? Senator McCarthy, there's someone hear to see you.....

Seeing as communism fell, your "the Second World War was supposed to spread communism" rings false. There were Soviet agents but no one could have predicted Hitler very, very, very nearly knocking out the USSR, knocking out the Wallies(with the exception of England) in a remarkably short time and then honoring a not very close alliance with Japan and declaring war on America.

The smart money was that the Japanese were going to attack the Phillippines. Nobody figured that Hawaii was going to be the target.

For a communist world domination plot it certainly didn't work that well

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Tigerace117 said:

Your calling George Marshall a communist traitor? Senator McCarthy, there's someone hear to see you.....

Seeing as communism fell, your "the Second World War was supposed to spread communism" rings false. There were Soviet agents but no one could have predicted Hitler very, very, very nearly knocking out the USSR, knocking out the Wallies(with the exception of England) in a remarkably short time and then honoring a not very close alliance with Japan and declaring war on America.

The smart money was that the Japanese were going to attack the Phillippines. Nobody figured that Hawaii was going to be the target.

For a communist world domination plot it certainly didn't work that well

Click to expand...

Don't want to get derailed onto communism... why don't you take a look at the '93 WTC Bombing and Gladio. The BBC documentary is over 2 hours long and has a lot of subtitles as much of it is in Italian and French - takes a die-hard to get through it, which is why I didn't link it.

Figured you wouldn't bother to look at or read anything anyway. Nonetheless, the information is out there - like I said, you have to be willing to dig a little, and willing to get to the truth. Takes some intellectual curiosity and honesty. Most people are too lazy and unconcerned to bother. It's easier to just believe everything Brian Williams reads from the script.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

wist43 said:

Don't want to get derailed onto communism... why don't you take a look at the '93 WTC Bombing and Gladio. The BBC documentary is over 2 hours long and has a lot of subtitles as much of it is in Italian and French - takes a die-hard to get through it, which is why I didn't link it.

Figured you wouldn't bother to look at or read anything anyway. Nonetheless, the information is out there - like I said, you have to be willing to dig a little, and willing to get to the truth. Takes some intellectual curiosity and honesty. Most people are too lazy and unconcerned to bother. It's easier to just believe everything Brian Williams reads from the script.

Click to expand...

'93 was after the fall of the USSR. Not to mention I highly doubt Gladio was involved.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Tigerace117 said:

'93 was after the fall of the USSR. Not to mention I highly doubt Gladio was involved.

Click to expand...

You're being evasive and trying to avoid dealing with any of the facts related to the '93 bombing and Gladio. People who trust their government see no need to know anything beyond what their government and MSM tell them. Rest assured, you are in the middle of the herd.

There are many more instances of false flags, but I can see you really have no interest in the subject. Stick to the Establishment approved evening news, it's less stressful.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

wist43 said:

You're being evasive and trying to avoid dealing with any of the facts related to the '93 bombing and Gladio. People who trust their government see no need to know anything beyond what their government and MSM tell them. Rest assured, you are in the middle of the herd.

There are many more instances of false flags, but I can see you really have no interest in the subject. Stick to the Establishment approved evening news, it's less stressful.

Click to expand...

People who don't believe whatever they're told by some random stranger are in the middle of the herd? Interesting philiosophy. Seems your only interested in those who are willing to gullibly mane huge leaps in logic on some stranger's word.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Tigerace117 said:

People who don't believe whatever they're told by some random stranger are in the middle of the herd? Interesting philiosophy. Seems your only interested in those who are willing to gullibly mane huge leaps in logic on some stranger's word.

Click to expand...

I'm not asking you to take my word for it - when did I do that??

I posted you some articles - one by the New York Times, assuming you would respect a MSM outlet more than any alternative source. I posted you a 47 minute documentary on Gladio - foregoing the 2 1/2 hour BBC documentary b/c you likely wouldn't bother to spend 2 hours on the subject. I doubt you'd spend 47 minutes on the documentary I posted, but I put it out there.

As I said, all of these things are verifiable, all you have to do is read and watch. If you want to learn more, do some digging - something I imagine you have no interest in.

I never once told you to "believe me"... don't take my word for it, do some bleeping research on the subjects. You really are completely ignorant about these things, and shooting single sentence responses at me after I post information isn't a constructive approach to discussing any subject.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Thoreau72 said:

The American Reichstag Fire HAS happened, and one of the signs of it was 90 days of molten iron. Another sign was sickness and disease manifested in workers at Ground Zero consistent with disease and sicknesses from radiation poisoning seen at Chernobyl and Hiroshima. Yes, high probability that the American Reichstag Fire was nuclear in nature.

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...................Are you seriously suggesting that nukes were involved in 9/11?

Conspiracy theorists....... smdh.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been [W

Abbazorkzog said:

...................Are you seriously suggesting that nukes were involved in 9/11?

Conspiracy theorists....... smdh.

Click to expand...

I take it you have not read to much of Thoreaus nonsense. Yes that is exactly what he things and no matter how many times it gets shown to be nonsense he just keeps right on believing it. It is what all true believer CT clowns do.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been [W

Braindrain, you're on my ignore list yet you continue to quote me.
The fact that you've been on my ignore list has yet to change.
The ignore list was put in place so that people you don't want to interact with can be put on it.
I'm sure the mods would agree with me.
This is your final warning: GET YOUR DAMNED NOTIFICATIONS OFF MY PAGE.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been [W

Abbazorkzog said:

Braindrain, you're on my ignore list yet you continue to quote me.
The fact that you've been on my ignore list has yet to change.
The ignore list was put in place so that people you don't want to interact with can be put on it.
I'm sure the mods would agree with me.
This is your final warning: GET YOUR DAMNED NOTIFICATIONS OFF MY PAGE.

Click to expand...

As I said earlier I will reply to any post on this forum that I choose to. If you don't like that's to bad. Stop posting complete garbage and I wouldn't bother replying to your posts.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Abbazorkzog said:

...................Are you seriously suggesting that nukes were involved in 9/11?

Conspiracy theorists....... smdh.

Click to expand...

Don't ever confuse Henry with being serious.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Abbazorkzog said:

...................Are you seriously suggesting that nukes were involved in 9/11?

Conspiracy theorists....... smdh.

Click to expand...

It is the only theory that answers all the questions about bizarre events at WTC.

Re: How would the US foreign policy change, had US elites' complicity in 9/11 been pr

Thoreau72 said:

It is the only theory that answers all the questions about bizarre events at WTC.

Click to expand...

No, no it really isn't. Ever here of radiation, for instance?