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Why is the Holy Bible not in here?

SecularSapience

SecularSapience

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Sure, it's controversial. Sure, some people are probably going to get worked up, but if you follow the definition of "conspiracy theory" as "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event," I believe it more than qualifies. The only thing that I believe might be controversial is including the word "covert." However, being that little to nothing is known (talking about facts here) about the circumstances leading up to its creation, or whether or not said authors were actually given instructions by a god, I believe it's more than viable. Many people believe that the book was created as a means to control the masses.
 
SecularSapience said:
Sure, it's controversial. Sure, some people are probably going to get worked up, but if you follow the definition of "conspiracy theory" as "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event," I believe it more than qualifies. The only thing that I believe might be controversial is including the word "covert." However, being that little to nothing is known (talking about facts here) about the circumstances leading up to its creation, or whether or not said authors were actually given instructions by a god, I believe it's more than viable. Many people believe that the book was created as a means to control the masses.
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Do you think that maybe Marx wrote it to justify Lenin's later power grab?
 
joG said:
Do you think that maybe Marx wrote it to justify Lenin's later power grab?
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Hey hey now, lets dont go confusing the Holy Bible with the left's bible now, c'mon. Have some respect, ha ha ha. Marxist, btw, have never ever tried to contol any masses have they...oh wait...
 
SecularSapience said:
Sure, it's controversial. Sure, some people are probably going to get worked up, but if you follow the definition of "conspiracy theory" as "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event," I believe it more than qualifies. The only thing that I believe might be controversial is including the word "covert." However, being that little to nothing is known (talking about facts here) about the circumstances leading up to its creation, or whether or not said authors were actually given instructions by a god, I believe it's more than viable. Many people believe that the book was created as a means to control the masses.
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I am guessing it possible. Pretty extensive book and does seem to combine writings/teachings over fairly disparate epochs with differing story lines. And, if you combine the Jewish with the Christian, old and new testaments, pretty wide ranging and divided conspiracy... then if you add the Muslim addition, the Koran, that is a pretty vast gulf to bridge and keep it a conspiracy.

Hey, but gotta love a moniker with the word sapience; for a short while wrote a blog entitled In Search of Sapience, go for it dude.
 
SecularSapience said:
Sure, it's controversial. Sure, some people are probably going to get worked up, but if you follow the definition of "conspiracy theory" as "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event," I believe it more than qualifies. The only thing that I believe might be controversial is including the word "covert." However, being that little to nothing is known (talking about facts here) about the circumstances leading up to its creation, or whether or not said authors were actually given instructions by a god, I believe it's more than viable. Many people believe that the book was created as a means to control the masses.
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Teaching religious traditions has always been a means of socializing the young, preparing them to live and work peacefully within a society. In this religious traditions serve a vital function. Now that we have knocked down religious traditions socialization has to proceed through other means, which are obviously proving not to be adequate. Liberals tend to think that socialization isn't even necessary, that it's society that's the problem, and that left to themselves young people will turn out naturally good. That leads to a Lord of the Flies scenario, as we are beginning to see.
 
It’s not really clear what you’re claiming. Clearly the Bible itself isn’t a conspiracy theory (not being “a belief” for a start) but you’re perfectly free to discuss a conspiracy theory about the creation of the Bible here if you like (I believe various speculations have been raised over the years).

I suspect you will face somewhat legitimate contempt if you appear to be throwing out a casual attack rather than proposing any kind of seriously considered hypothesis.
 
SecularSapience said:
Sure, it's controversial. Sure, some people are probably going to get worked up, but if you follow the definition of "conspiracy theory" as "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event," I believe it more than qualifies. The only thing that I believe might be controversial is including the word "covert." However, being that little to nothing is known (talking about facts here) about the circumstances leading up to its creation, or whether or not said authors were actually given instructions by a god, I believe it's more than viable. Many people believe that the book was created as a means to control the masses.
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The Bible is absolutely a con, which is a form of the word, "conspiratorial," so, sure...I guess it fits.

Religions, by their nature, are the best con games around. They effectively moderate the behavior of people who would otherwise act out, and folks don't know they've been conned as long as they're breathing. It's not like you can come back and sue for being conned after you're dead.

The greatest story ever SOLD.
 
SecularSapience said:
Sure, it's controversial. Sure, some people are probably going to get worked up, but if you follow the definition of "conspiracy theory" as "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event," I believe it more than qualifies. The only thing that I believe might be controversial is including the word "covert." However, being that little to nothing is known (talking about facts here) about the circumstances leading up to its creation, or whether or not said authors were actually given instructions by a god, I believe it's more than viable. Many people believe that the book was created as a means to control the masses.
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I don't think you're pointing out anything millions and millions have thought before you. I personally don't take The Bible literally. Ever play telephone at a party as a kid?
 
MaggieD said:
I don't think you're pointing out anything millions and millions have thought before you. I personally don't take The Bible literally. Ever play telephone at a party as a kid?
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Ah, one o' those "It's not meant to be taken literally" types. Please, tell me where the metaphor is in any of the following? What does it actually mean?

Exodus 21:20-21 – "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

Genesis 3:16 - "To the woman he said, 'I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.'"

1 Timothy 2:11-12 – "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."

Exodus 35:2 – " For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."

Deuteronomy 17:12 - "Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the Lord your God must die. In this way you will purge the evil from Israel."

2 Chronicles 21:18-19 - "After all this, the LORD afflicted Jehoram with an incurable disease of the bowels. In the course of time, at the end of the second year, his bowels came out because of the disease, and he died in great pain. His people made no fire in his honor, as they had for his fathers."

Psalms 137:8-9 - "O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."

It really didn't take long to find those. It's filled with this hate, bigotry, and ignorance.
 
SecularSapience said:
Ah, one o' those "It's not meant to be taken literally" types. Please, tell me where the metaphor is in any of the following? What does it actually mean?

Exodus 21:20-21 – "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

Genesis 3:16 - "To the woman he said, 'I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.'"

1 Timothy 2:11-12 – "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."

Exodus 35:2 – " For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."

Deuteronomy 17:12 - "Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the Lord your God must die. In this way you will purge the evil from Israel."

2 Chronicles 21:18-19 - "After all this, the LORD afflicted Jehoram with an incurable disease of the bowels. In the course of time, at the end of the second year, his bowels came out because of the disease, and he died in great pain. His people made no fire in his honor, as they had for his fathers."

Psalms 137:8-9 - "O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."

It really didn't take long to find those. It's filled with this hate, bigotry, and ignorance.
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Respective to the social morality of the times, there's metaphor in most of those verses. Pulling verses out of context is disingenuous, as you know.

Just for the record? I'm a picker-and-chooser. I believe in a higher being and look forward to having the great mystery revealed. If there IS no great mystery? I'll be none the worse for wear. ;) And neither will anyone else.
 
MaggieD said:
Respective to the social morality of the times, there's metaphor in most of those verses. Pulling verses out of context is disingenuous, as you know.

Just for the record? I'm a picker-and-chooser. I believe in a higher being and look forward to having the great mystery revealed. If there IS no great mystery? I'll be none the worse for wear. ;) And neither will anyone else.
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Is the Bible not meant to be the transcription of the commandments of the sole omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. Thus it should not be respective to the 'social morality' of any time, but outlining a code that is to be followed for eternity?
 
OP answer.
Only relevant conspiracies should end up here. :)
If it was a conspiracy it was one perpetrated X thousand years ago.
Ergo. Irrelevant. Unless you believe in those clandestine organizations that have been manipulating mankind since the UFOs put them in charge...

To be fair, there are few conspiracies that aren't moot. As in whether they are true or not does not change your everyday existence especially since most will a) not be solved and b) will not be changed.

The only important conspiracy here is the OP's motive.
 
Ardyr Ioris said:
Is the Bible not meant to be the transcription of the commandments of the sole omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. Thus it should not be respective to the 'social morality' of any time, but outlining a code that is to be followed for eternity?
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The Bible was written by human beings. Live by the Ten Commandments and all will be well no matter which way it goes.
 
MaggieD said:
The Bible was written by human beings. Live by the Ten Commandments and all will be well no matter which way it goes.
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Ah yes, the Ten Commandments, of that lovely 'God' who, despite having the power to enforce his will on humans, instead decides to watch them wallow in poverty, disease and war. He is also seemingly omnibenevolent, yet lets 65 people have as much wealth as 3.5 billion people. Discrimination, much?
 
Ardyr Ioris said:
Ah yes, the Ten Commandments, of that lovely 'God' who, despite having the power to enforce his will on humans, instead decides to watch them wallow in poverty, disease and war. He is also seemingly omnibenevolent, yet lets 65 people have as much wealth as 3.5 billion people. Discrimination, much?
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So you would prefer a deity who makes a race of robots to act exactly as they "should" (subjective)?
Are you sure socialists and communists are not the same thing? :)
 
HowardBThiname said:
The Bible is absolutely a con, which is a form of the word, "conspiratorial," so, sure...I guess it fits.

Religions, by their nature, are the best con games around. They effectively moderate the behavior of people who would otherwise act out, and folks don't know they've been conned as long as they're breathing. It's not like you can come back and sue for being conned after you're dead.

The greatest story ever SOLD.
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Pretty good. But I think the con comes from 'confidence trick'. Which fits the pushers of what they call the Holy Book equally well.
 
Ardyr Ioris said:
Ah yes, the Ten Commandments, of that lovely 'God' who, despite having the power to enforce his will on humans, instead decides to watch them wallow in poverty, disease and war. He is also seemingly omnibenevolent, yet lets 65 people have as much wealth as 3.5 billion people. Discrimination, much?
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Oh, I get it. An atheist who wants to foist his beliefs on the rest of us. Take your religion bashing to another forum. Believe or don't believe. Your choice. But trying to belittle the beliefs of others is a waste of time. You will change no one.
 
MaggieD said:
Respective to the social morality of the times, there's metaphor in most of those verses. Pulling verses out of context is disingenuous, as you know.

Just for the record? I'm a picker-and-chooser. I believe in a higher being and look forward to having the great mystery revealed. If there IS no great mystery? I'll be none the worse for wear. ;) And neither will anyone else.
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Absolutely nothing wrong with being a deist, although I find the wishful thinking to be highly unlikely. The issue isn't necessarily with deism, but with Christianity. It's been scientifically debunked so many times, it's not even funny anymore. There are literally hundreds of religions in the world, yet nearly three quarters of the United States believe in THIS particular fairy tale? It's offensive to a logical thinker. Most of the verses I used, by the way, are stand-alone verses, and do not require any others for context -- it's not like I did the Fox News thing and took out little 5-word snippets of text to be disingenuous. Your last two lines is pretty much my entire point all wrapped up in a nice little bow. You may be an exception to the rule, but most of the time, you are the worse for wear, and in my experience, so are most believers. Allowing this indoctrination to shape your being subconsciously effects your ability to reason and ends up becoming a psychological defense mechanism for all things frightening or unexplained, like death. Example? Despite OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary, a very large number of Christians in this country still believe that evolution is bologna. Bottom line? As long as we're arguing over very basic scientific principles rather than moving forward, it makes the quest for understanding and growth that much more painstakingly slow and sets us back.
 
Ntharotep said:
OP answer.
Only relevant conspiracies should end up here. :)
If it was a conspiracy it was one perpetrated X thousand years ago.
Ergo. Irrelevant. Unless you believe in those clandestine organizations that have been manipulating mankind since the UFOs put them in charge...

To be fair, there are few conspiracies that aren't moot. As in whether they are true or not does not change your everyday existence especially since most will a) not be solved and b) will not be changed.

The only important conspiracy here is the OP's motive.
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Given the EXTREME level of support in current society for Christianity, regardless of when the Bible was created, the topic is anything but irrelevant. Comparatively speaking, belief in Odin, the all-father, has shrunk into almost nonexistence. There is no disingenuous ploy behind my words. I honestly feel that the topic fits in a discussion on conspiracy theories. Apparently, I wasn't alone in that logic.
 
SecularSapience said:
[re the Bible]..Many people believe that the book was created as a means to control the masses.
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Not a chance! These two verses blow that consp-theory out of the water..:)-

"Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit...be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (2 Cor 2:17,1 Peter 5:2-3)
 
Desperado said:
Not a chance! These two verses blow that consp-theory out of the water..:)-

"Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit...be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (2 Cor 2:17,1 Peter 5:2-3)
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LOL. You, at the very least, have to look at both sides. If the Bible truly were a conspiracy theory, do you actually think that quoting from said Bible is going to be considered evidence that it is not? That's hilarious. It's like saying the 9/11 conspiracy theories are irrefutably false because the government said so.
 
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