Chanda

So you don't know who you are citing, do you?

What has been disproven? Willie Brown was warned not to fly on Sept. 11.

But, I thought you said the warning was non-actionable. So, he did take action, then? Do you have a link besides 911myths.com?

__________________
When I despair, I remember that all through history, the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, always.---Mahatma Gandhi

Trajan Octavian Titus

Yes I'm citing those who debunk truther bull**** and the cites they use to do just that.

Willie Brown was given a non-descript warning regarding a worldwide heightened alert, the only thing other than the heightened alert that the administration could have done is to shut down U.S. airtravel over a non-actionable intelligence memo the likes of which had come across the Presidents desk since 1998.

Actually the heightened alert of federal agencies came from your source, and actionable intelligence is something that could have been used to prevent the attack IE a name or the airlines that were going to be used by the hijackers.

Chanda

If you don't even know who you are citing, how do you know if the information is reliable? BTW, it isn't.

No, he was given a very specific warning to not fly on Sept 11.

Bush did nothing after the "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US memo" except to say "OK, you've covered your @ss now," and then continue his vacation. There were dozens of warnings, a flurry of them in the summer of 2001. According to 9/11 Commission member Richard Ben-Veniste, "people like Director Tenet, people like Richard Clarke, are running around, as they say, with their hair on fire, in the summer of 2001, knowing something big is going to happen."

And yet, Bush and Rice told us there were no warnings.

Richard Nixon

You know who Hyman Brown is, right? Also, watch the movie 'Zeitgest', in there, in part two, there is an audio clip of a WTC engineer talking to a newscaster and saying the buildings could withstand almost anything.

Highly trained, huh? Highly trained by a ****ing rebel faction? How can you be "highly trained" to fly a plain into a damn building? The fact of the matter is that Al Qaeda were little more than remnants of the MAK, a rebel group, not a political and military monster. How did they make NORAD stand down? NORAD knew that there were flights hijacked, so why didn't they shoot them down? Does that not insinuate Al Qaeda had someone on the inside? Which, by the way, was totally out of their damn reach. Al Qaeda was just another rebel group before 9/11, they were no power.

Bull****, you think a plane full of people couldn't take down 4-5 men, two driving the plane, so essentially 2-3 men? A whole plane of people couldn't take down two three men with god damn box cutters? They'd hurt, but there's no way they'd be able to take on a whole plane of people with that type of primitive equipment. You put a box cutter to my throat and I'm ****ed, yes, but if I'm with a group of my friends I'm going to make a plan to **** you up.


OK.

A) You say 'truther' like it's a bad thing. What's wrong with seeking truth? That's almost a self-insulting statement.

B) Did NORAD not do training exercises involving plains flying into buildings? Was one of the scenarios of that days war games not the exact same scenario that happened?

C) In the event of a hijacked plane threatening US security, what is the policy of the US government?

Doesn't the Federal Aviation Administration relay the information to NORAD when a plane turns their transponders off? FAA took way too long relaying the information to NORAD and when NORAD did get it they were far too confused and late because of the war games exercises going on. There's recordings of the pilots during the war games saying they were made aware of a possible hijack situation and they were so confused by the war games they didn't know what to do. War games on 9/11 with the exact same scenario in there? Give me a break.

You get ****ing educated you backward *** hick. Keep insulting me and you'll get nothing but the same back.

The fires are a debunked myth which you refuse to listen to:

Jet fuel = not hot enough to melt steal or even harm it. They ran a test in which a steel being burned by the same fuel kept standing for two hours. Why would the world trade center, with only fires (very weak ones, by the way, the smoke coming from the window suggested it was oxygen starved and weak) on certain floors cause the entire structure to collapse? It just doesn't make sense. For a building like that to collapse the flames would have to be a lot hotter and a lot bigger than they were.

Firefighters are quoted, on tape and on audio saying the fires weren't powerful at all.

They didn't even blow ****ing windows out. If the fire was even close to its highest temperature windows would of been smashed all over the joint from the intense pressure.


The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds.
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.

The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet.
The wingspan of a Boeing 767 is 156 feet.

The length of a Boeing 707 is 153 feet.
The length of a Boeing 767 is 159 feet.

The Boeing 707 could carry 23,000 gallons of fuel.
The Boeing 767 could carry 23,980 gallons of fuel.

The cruise speed of a Boeing 707 is 607 mph = 890 ft/s,
The cruise speed of a Boeing 767 is 530 mph = 777 ft/s.

They are very slight differences. You simply can't argue that the slight extra bagged of a 767 would cause it to be awesomely more destructive against a building designed to withstand multiple attacks.

Go **** yourself.

I await your link after link after link because you're too inept to do this yourself.

__________________

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing. - Socrates

dixon76710

LOLOLOL!!!! I'll take that as an admission that YOU just made up the quotes. Soooo typical. So it wasnt the designer but instead it was a construction manager. And it wasnt "multiple plane shots from multiple places" that he spoke of but instead it was "an airplane". You guys have so much shiite bouncing around in your head that you lose the ability to distinguish between reality, and the shiite you make up as you go along..... or you are just incredibly dishonest.

dixon76710

Do you just make this shiite up as you go along or does someone else do it for you? The huge gaping holes the size of an airliner allow this pressure to escape without resistance.

Trajan Octavian Titus

Because they use independent sources as verification truther.

No he was given a warning because of a state department memo that lacked any actionable intelligence, you need to read the sources I provide so you can quit spewing your bull****.

You are a ****ing liar, he put federal agencies on heightened alert.

Let's see one of these dozens of warnings with actionable intelligence in it truther, just one, either you provide it or STFU.

That is a lie. Read the CIA internal memo, get ****ing educated, it was Tenet who ****ed everything up:

And Richard Clarke changed his story after he got demoted before that he was saying that GWB did far far more than Clinton did to combat AQ:

ashurbanipal

Dude, you quoted me from that thread in this one.

1) Yes, I'm aware of what you thought. That's not the point--the point is you're saying I insulted you first. I'm pointing out that the first insult you have me making was a paraphrase of something you said to me some 70-odd posts earlier in the thread.

Really? Post 22 in this thread was my response to AmericanWoman's question regarding how Bin Laden and Al Qaeda fit into everything. The very last paragraph in that post says:

"this" referring--obviously, one would hope--to the scenario I had just outlined. And, I believe I have identified this as speculation in every subsequent post in which I have discussed the scenario.

This does not mean that I believe everything I say with regard to 911 is speculation--much of it is not.

ashurbanipal

It's my understanding that Yousef had an idea to load explosives into a small private plane and fly it into the CIA headquarters, or perhaps other structures in the U.S. Not exactly the same. He also had the Bojinka plot which involved simultaneous hijackings. He didn't have the idea for 911, specifically.

That said, I'm not sure why it matters for the purpose of this discussion.

1) Because I believe there was an inside conspiracy and

2) Because I believe OBL and Al Qaeda were involved in that conspiracy

Ergo, he would had to have been contacted.

He was (I speculate) given an opportunity to carry out an attack while normal security measures would be disabled. To be completely plain: I think that a group of inside conspirators here went to him and said "We need you to attack the United States, and we're willing to help to make sure the attacks work spectacularly." Of course OBL would jump on that chance.

I am pretty sure that Atta and Bin Al Sheeb volunteered by going to Bin Laden. Bin Laden didn't ask for them. They went to him with an idea based on Yousef's Bojinka plan, with their own twists. At that time, Bin Laden put them in touch with KSM who had similar ideas. However, the finished idea for 911 was Bin al Sheeb's and Atta's. There were only precedent ideas floating around for them.

AQ certainly does fundraising and funding, but they also run training camps and provide networking resources. And they probably have other functions we're not aware of.

I'm not saying the conspirators helped him finance 911--well, they may have, I don't really know and it's not important. The conspirators are the ones who made sure our defenses were looking the other way, and made sure there were bombs in the buildings sufficient to bring them down. They also did the cover-up afterward.

We can disagree (obviously)--so long as you understand I do not believe the entire U.S. government was in on the 911 plot. It was a very small, inter-dependent group of like minded-individuals who believe 911 was necessary to the survival of America.

Have you seen either of them lately? Have any defense attorneys, especially in KSM's case, come out and said "yeah, he's alive."?

Don't get me wrong--I think it likely they are alive. I'm pointing out that the only information about them and what they're saying comes from their captors. To the extent that the attorney general is allowed to determine what information to release, we're getting a very filtered version of what these guys are probably actually saying.

Again, we can disagree, so long as you understand that only OBL would be involved with an inside conspiracy. Everyone else involved on the AQ side would know nothing about it, under my scenario.

The trouble with the world is the intelligent are uncertain and the stupid are cocksure.

-Bertrand Russell-

All that evidence would be expected under my theory as well. As for physical evidence--I have given you plenty in the ongoing 911 thread in the Breaking News forum. BTW, I will have my replies up there fairly soon.

I never said OBL was working for us the whole time. In fact, I never said he was working for us, ever. I think he probably does have contacts in the CIA, and it's from among those that some of the conspirators arise.

Depends on what counts as evidence.

1) No, not exactly my imagination.

2) Yours is the official version--that doesn't necessarily mean that's what happened. History is full of instances of the official version being overturned later.

3) Nor are all my conclusions speculation. What is speculation is how AQ fits into the scheme according to me.

You'd argue a lot better if you'd spend some time understanding your opponents' positions.

Trajan Octavian Titus

Get educated truther, the calculations were for a 707 traveling at half speed and didn't include the variable of the fire.

All of the flyers were licensed pilots and were highly trained in AQ terror training bases in Afghanistan.

Flight school and flight simulators.

No AQ is an international data base of a list of Mujahadeen fighters from the Soviet-Afghan war, as well as, Jihad volunteers, as well as, a large fundraising network.

Easy there was no NORAD stand down.

NORAD isn't designed to intercept domestic flights.

Your accusation of a stand down is bull**** so no it does not insinuate anything.

lol, they were not just another rebel group they were and are a highly organized highly trained highly motivated global wide terrorist network of loosely affiliated Jihadists who have struck at U.S. interests several times before 9-11. Somalia, African Embassy bombings, '93 WTC bombing, Khobar Towers bombing, U.S.S.S. Cole etc etc.

Prior to 9-11 that's not what you're supposed to do in a hijack situation, you were supposed to cooperate and usually things turn out all right, terrorists usually have demands and the hostages usually end up being released, the passengers had no way of knowing that it was a martyrdom operation, however, when they did come to that realization they stormed the cockpit on flight '93.

The first thing the hijackers did was slash someones throat, then they pepper sprayed the the plane, the said they had a bomb, it was all about shock and awe the way our special forces storm a building, these guys knew what they were doing, like I said they were highly trained AQ operatives, all of those things I listed would have put you firmly in your seat and had you p!ssing your pants.


"Truther" is a perojative term referring to delusional conspiracy nutters, you don't seak the truth you regurgetate lies and bull****.

Couldn't tell ya.

No: http://911myths.com/html/operation_v..._guardian.html

NORAD is not designed to intercept domestic flights, after the hijackers turned off the transponders the planes were just blips amongst a thousand other blips.

Get educated:

http://911myths.com/html/intercepts_...d_the_faa.html

Get educated:

http://911myths.com/html/false_blips.html


A) There's no evidence that the war games adversly affected their response time, there was a slight confusion possibly but it was compensated for.

B) There is no evidence of a war game involving the exact same scenario as the 9-11 attacks you are a liar.

Eat me truther.

Steal loses 50% OF it's structural integrity at 650° F:

The temperature of the fires at the WTC reached 1800° F:

They ran tests and the tests prove that the buildings collapsed due to the impacts of the planes in concordance with the raging infernos.

Read the NIST report, unlike truthers they base there conclusions on facts, evidence, and scientific experimentation.
Really? Then why were all those people jumping out the windows to escape the raging infernos?

Ya umm that intense pressure may have been relieved by say I don't know the giant ****ing impact holes in the buildings?

A) Where do you come up with "multiple attacks"? The buildings were designed to withstand a single impact of a slow flying 707 not a 767 traveling at full speed:

B) The calculations were only made to determine what an impact might do, it did not calculate the resulting fire.


Yes you will get link after link as they have already done my job for me, your assertions have been thoroughly discredited truther.