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Firefighter Tells His Experience/Expertise with 9/11[W:302]

Mark F said:
Instead of evasion and derail, lets try this again.

So why should we care about this old letter? It is a valid question.

If it is for historical interest we could discuss what effect (if any) that it had.
If it is for current interest we could discuss what effect (if any) the letter is having now.

Bob didn't really say why he posted it - just sort of throwing it out there. I assume he thought it worthy of discussion but why? We have a choice of moving the conversation forward by agreeing on a context for discussion or letting it die. Or of watching you and Bob desperately attempting to change the subject.

This very much reminds me of the "14 Interesting Facts,.." thread where no one but me seemed interested in discussing the 14 supposedly interesting facts, including the OP.
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Exactly... Asking "who cares" about self-evident issues.
 
BmanMcfly said:
Exactly... Asking "who cares" about self-evident issues.
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What is self-evident about an outdated open letter campaign to firefighters? I have given several possible avenues of discussion for this subject. You can't even handle simple multiple choice so you go for your inevitable fallback option.

destroyers-laying-smoke.jpg

I think at this point it is safe to call the letter Bob posted a dead issue. He clearly doesn't want actually talk about it and you definitely don't want to talk about it given the amount of energy you have expended trying to avoid the subject.
 
Mark F said:
He clearly doesn't want actually talk about it and you definitely don't want to talk about it given the amount of energy you have expended trying to avoid the subject.
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Let's face it Mark, many posters don't want to talk to YOU about anything regarding 9/11, period. YOU can pretend YOU're a WE every time YOU post something, including with YOUR fake 2 questions, but YOU're still just YOU and YOU will never be a WE no matter how many times YOU want to pretend YOU are a WE.
 
Bob0627 said:
Let's face it Mark, many posters don't want to talk to YOU about anything regarding 9/11, period. YOU can pretend YOU're a WE every time YOU post something, including with YOUR fake 2 questions, but YOU're still just YOU and YOU will never be a WE no matter how many times YOU want to pretend YOU are a WE.
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I understand why YOU don't want to deal with ME Bob, probably much better than YOU do. If I were YOU, I would be intimidated as hell dealing with ME too. But hey, such is life. WE don't always get to pick and chose. WE do however have the option of discussing a letter YOU introduced into the conversation so YOU must think it has some importance or relevance. While that discussion may or many not end up going anywhere productive, WE never know until WE try now do WE?

Or if YOU don't think the letter is all that important after all, WE can chose to drop it and move on. This passive/aggressive thing YOU do where YOU engage in evasion by making things personal is totally unnecessary.
 
Mark F said:
I understand why YOU don't want to deal with ME Bob, probably much better than YOU do. If I were YOU, I would be intimidated as hell dealing with ME too. But hey, such is life. WE don't always get to pick and chose. WE do however have the option of discussing a letter YOU introduced into the conversation so YOU must think it has some importance or relevance. While that discussion may or many not end up going anywhere productive, WE never know until WE try now do WE?

Or if YOU don't think the letter is all that important after all, WE can chose to drop it and move on. This passive/aggressive thing YOU do where YOU engage in evasion by making things personal is totally unnecessary.
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Such as the above hypocritical post? No, I'm not interested in YOU or YOUR 9/11 nonsense. I'm interested in discussing 9/11 with genuine posters who really care about what happened on 9/11 and what we were fed. I'm sure you know that since that's what I posted many times in the past. 9/11 is not a job or a source for amusement for people who fit those characteristics. Sorry, you can get a recruit here, no bonus pay. But keep trying if you must, it is your job.
 
Bob0627 said:
Such as the above hypocritical post? No, I'm not interested in YOU or YOUR 9/11 nonsense. I'm interested in discussing 9/11 with genuine posters who really care about what happened on 9/11 and what we were fed. I'm sure you know that since that's what I posted many times in the past. 9/11 is not a job or a source for amusement for people who fit those characteristics. Sorry, you can get a recruit here, no bonus pay. But keep trying if you must, it is your job.
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I see "genuine poster" has become the new catch phrase.

One must be a true believer of conspiracy theories to be a "genuine poster" it appears. And anyone not a "genuine poster" is painted as a shill in the employ of some evil shadow organization.
 
Bob0627 said:
Such as the above hypocritical post? No, I'm not interested in YOU or YOUR 9/11 nonsense. I'm interested in discussing 9/11 with genuine posters who really care about what happened on 9/11 and what we were fed. I'm sure you know that since that's what I posted many times in the past. 9/11 is not a job or a source for amusement for people who fit those characteristics. Sorry, you can get a recruit here, no bonus pay. But keep trying if you must, it is your job.
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Rational public dialogue is impossible with men in denial. Women too, for that matter. The dissonant cannot be honest when they deny the existence of facts.
 
Henry David said:
Rational public dialogue is impossible with men in denial. Women too, for that matter. The dissonant cannot be honest when they deny the existence of facts.
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True but that doesn't apply to some of the posters here, they are clearly not dissonant. I find it hard to believe a person afflicted with cognitive dissonance would spend every single day in a forum defending the OCT and the storytellers and question none of it or them.
 
Bob0627 said:
Such as the above hypocritical post? No, I'm not interested in YOU or YOUR 9/11 nonsense. I'm interested in discussing 9/11 with genuine posters who really care about what happened on 9/11 and what we were fed. I'm sure you know that since that's what I posted many times in the past. 9/11 is not a job or a source for amusement for people who fit those characteristics. Sorry, you can get a recruit here, no bonus pay. But keep trying if you must, it is your job.
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Stop with the hyperbole Bob. Just because the conclusions I reach are different than the conclusions you reach does not mean I do not care or I am some brainless moron who simply regurgitates stuff he pulled off the internet and posts without vetting - like an outdated open letter to firefighters for example.

Demonizing me with this patently silly paid shill nonsense may sooth your cognitive dissonance, but it certainly is not the trait of an objective observer.
 
Mark F said:
Stop with the hyperbole Bob. Just because the conclusions I reach are different than the conclusions you reach does not mean I do not care or I am some brainless moron who simply regurgitates stuff he pulled off the internet and posts without vetting - like an outdated open letter to firefighters for example.

Demonizing me with this patently silly paid shill nonsense may sooth your cognitive dissonance, but it certainly is not the trait of an objective observer.
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At least you do keep on trying, I'll give you that.
 
Bob0627 said:
At least you do keep on trying, I'll give you that.
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I'm interested in the discussion. Being such a wonderfully complex topic with so many opportunities for reasoned thinking it keeps my brain from freezing. I am not interested in sides or pointing fingers or any of that petty nonsense. And with one or two exceptions (which does not include you BTW) I hold no resentment or animosity of any kind towards any of my opponents.
 
Mark F said:
I hold no resentment or animosity of any kind towards any of my opponents.
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Well that's very nice of you Mark, what a gentleman. Just who are your "opponents" anyway? Are in involved in some kind of contest or war?

It also reminds me of Hollywood mobster movies where the killer says "it's not personal, it's business".
 
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Bob0627 said:
Well that's very nice of you Mark, what a gentleman. Just who are your "opponents" anyway? Are in involved in some kind of contest or war?

It also reminds me of Hollywood mobster movies where the killer says "it's not personal, it's business".
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The educated and rational vs. The Conspiracy mongers...
 
Bob0627 said:
Well that's very nice of you Mark, what a gentleman. Just who are your "opponents" anyway? Are in involved in some kind of contest or war?

It also reminds me of Hollywood mobster movies where the killer says "it's not personal, it's business".
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I don't see it that way. But I suspect - as it is with so many things - others may disagree.
 
Mark F said:
I don't see it that way. But I suspect - as it is with so many things - others may disagree.
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You're the one who used the term "opponents". That implies that you're engaged in some kind of contest or war. Who or what are you fighting exactly?
 
Bob0627 said:
You're the one who used the term "opponents". That implies that you're engaged in some kind of contest or war. Who or what are you fighting exactly?
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I don't see it that way. But I suspect - as it is with so many things - others may disagree - hence my use of the term with emphasis.
 
Mark F said:
I don't see it that way. But I suspect - as it is with so many things - others may disagree - hence my use of the term with emphasis.
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Not really important to me but I do understand what your use of the term "opponents" is all about.
 
Bob0627 said:
You're the one who used the term "opponents". That implies that you're engaged in some kind of contest or war. Who or what are you fighting exactly?
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It's obvious they are fighting people who are seeking truth.
 
BmanMcfly said:
It's obvious they are fighting people who are seeking truth.
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Except as I clearly stated, I do not see this as an adversarial thing. I have no desire for it to be adversarial which I find counter-productive to progress. I have no need or desire to make it adversarial as some sort of defense mechanism to protect myself from ideas and information.

Others I more than suspect disagree and treat me as an opponent and want to be adversarial. Check the mirror.
 
Mark F said:
Except as I clearly stated, I do not see this as an adversarial thing. I have no desire for it to be adversarial which I find counter-productive to progress. I have no need or desire to make it adversarial as some sort of defense mechanism to protect myself from ideas and information.

Others I more than suspect disagree and treat me as an opponent and want to be adversarial. Check the mirror.
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Cute... You said that as though you actually believe it in any demonstrable way,
 
Bob0627 said:
True but that doesn't apply to some of the posters here, they are clearly not dissonant. I find it hard to believe a person afflicted with cognitive dissonance would spend every single day in a forum defending the OCT and the storytellers and question none of it or them.
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You might be right Robert. :mrgreen:
 
Bob0627 said:
Not really important to me but I do understand what your use of the term "opponents" is all about.
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Perhaps you have uncovered a sort of Freudian Slip there.

I've never understood how some can so easily dismiss the comments and observations of rank & file firemen.
 
Henry David said:
Perhaps you have uncovered a sort of Freudian Slip there.
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That was my point exactly. Those who don't bend over to the OCT are "opponents". There's a war going on against independent thinking, everyone must kowtow to the US government and its puppet MSM.

I've never understood how some can so easily dismiss the comments and observations of rank & file firemen.
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That always depends on whether those comments and observations support the OCT or contradict it. They are revered if they support it and "unsupported" and/or "uncorroborated" if they don't.
 
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