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USS Liberty - CT or not CT, that is the question

Fledermaus said:
I read somewhere that everything you say you read somewhere is something you made up.
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He is talking about the INS Dakar. This was a WWII era British T-class submarine (HMS Totem) acquired by Israel in 1965. In 1968 it sank off of Cyprus and was listed as lost for decades. And for those decades, various conspiracy nutcases listed that it has been sunk either by Egypt by depth charges, or by the US in retaliation for the USS Liberty incident. With many of the US nutters believing it was sunk by the US.

To bad for them, it was finally discovered in 1999 by a joint US-Israeli search team. And it was found with no major damage of any kind to the hull (which would have been expected if it was sunk by depth charges or a torpedo). The only damage found was consistant with the boat striking the bottom (3,000 m). Conning tower snapped off as well as dive plane and rear hull seperation. No holes in the hull, nor torpedo or crushing damage.

Once again, simply throwing out some crap and hoping it sticks. Not even thinking that somebody might even know about this.

INSDakarfull01.jpg

INS Dakar-Her final rest
 
Israel was fighting for it's life against 4 countries and 3 borders.

Americans place a "snoop" ship in the region.

What could go wrong?
 
Mark F said:
..Israel certainly attacked the USS Liberty, but it was a tragic case of friendly fire which came about through gross incompetence at the command level on both sides..
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Agreed, the brass of all nations foul up on a regular basis but it's usually swept under the carpet.
The bottom line is that America was (and is) Israel's best mate, so the consp-theory that they'd deliberately attack the ship simply holds no water..:)
 
Desperado said:
Agreed, the brass of all nations foul up on a regular basis but it's usually swept under the carpet.
The bottom line is that America was (and is) Israel's best mate, so the consp-theory that they'd deliberately attack the ship simply holds no water..:)
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Not even the first time.

During the Suez operations in 1956 where the IDF was cooperating with the British and French in a combined operation, IDF warplanes mis-identified a British Royal Navy Black Swan class sloop, HMS Crane, as Egyptian and attacked it under high command orders - twice!

Your average CT doesn't even know that (won't find it on Youtube and they don't do research).
 
Desperado said:
Agreed, the brass of all nations foul up on a regular basis but it's usually swept under the carpet.
The bottom line is that America was (and is) Israel's best mate, so the consp-theory that they'd deliberately attack the ship simply holds no water..:)
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Except that the testimony of the sailors onboard strongly suggest that the Israeli pilots were unable to see the US flags flying on the ship. Their vision was good enough to see the ship, but impaired to the point they could not see the US flag, even the larger one brought out after the first strike.

Or, maybe all those sailors were just making that up, eh?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Except that the testimony of the sailors onboard strongly suggest that the Israeli pilots were unable to see the US flags flying on the ship. Their vision was good enough to see the ship, but impaired to the point they could not see the US flag, even the larger one brought out after the first strike.

Or, maybe all those sailors were just making that up, eh?
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Making what up?

Pilots hitting the wrong ship?

Not the first time.
 
Fledermaus said:
Making what up?

Pilots hitting the wrong ship?

Not the first time.
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No, making up that after the first attack, some went below and brought out and raised a much larger US flag, thinking they would not be attacked by our Israeli "ally", and that the pilots must not have seen the smaller flag.
 
Thoreau72 said:
No, making up that after the first attack, some went below and brought out and raised a much larger US flag, thinking they would not be attacked by our Israeli "ally", and that the pilots must not have seen the smaller flag.
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And then a gunner on the smoke-obscured USS Liberty opened up with a .50-cal on the Israeli PT boats which were at the time flashing a recognition signal to the USS Liberty as outlined on the first page of this thread, making this point completely redundant.

Henry misses the critical context again, as usual.
 
Thoreau72 said:
No, making up that after the first attack, some went below and brought out and raised a much larger US flag, thinking they would not be attacked by our Israeli "ally", and that the pilots must not have seen the smaller flag.
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Did anyone claim, infer or imply a larger flag was not raised?

No?
 
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