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Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348, W:350]

Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

The DNA samples were contrived, is my guess. I wasn't there, and I wasn't in on any part of the action.

Wally was provided DNA samples by the feds, and probably the "name" of who it belonged to. He merely signed the death certificate in accordance with Pennsylvania law.

Your guess.

Well, that is worth........

Nothing.

Get help.
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

An opinion based on anti-government feelings. With no evidence to support claims of 911 truth, all the claims become lies mocking those murdered by 911 terrorists. The OP remains a lie.

911 truth claims to have overwhelming evidence, were is the Pulitzer? Stuck with failed opinions, unable to refute DNA. No Pulitzer for 911 truth, in the 13th year of complete failure.

Can't you see the irony? A pilot who flew under RADAR control for many years (or so he claims) is saying RADAR is false, and 93 did not crash where RADAR says it did. Thus, we have pilot who flies in RADAR controlled airspace who denies RADAR is valid; thus he must not be a pilot. Did he file the required report to expose RADAR as fake? Did he stop flying when he figured this out? No, he is making up lies about 911, and using hearsay, opinions, quote mining, cherry picking to make up a fantasy. Plus unable to under stand E=1/2mv[SUP]2[/SUP], not knowing what the damage of a high speed impact looks like - unable to understand physics.
Anyone who understand physics (like kinetic energy has a velocity squared component) knows a high speed impact is 9 times greater than a landing accident, or a crash where the pilot is trying to land at slow speed, or a takeoff accident.
If we understand physics we could explain to all those who look at the tiny aircraft parts coving acres of ground Flight 93 impact was 9 time more energy. Thus each human body you expect to see like other accident would be 9 times more beat up, smashed destroyed. We are not talking about humans jumpi8ng and hitting the ground, they were propelled in an aircraft into the ground at 560 mph. What do you have then? A person going that speed would have the energy of 1,700 shotgun blasts. Why can't the OP use physics? It would ruin the fantasy. Why are people fooled into thinking Flight 93 does not look right - it looks exactly what a high speed crash looks like.
Science makes the OP another failed fantasy for 911 truth.

:lamo
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

The DNA samples were contrived, is my guess. I wasn't there, and I wasn't in on any part of the action.

Wally was provided DNA samples by the feds, and probably the "name" of who it belonged to. He merely signed the death certificate in accordance with Pennsylvania law.

Hahaha. Never let facts get in the way of a good story. All that faked evidence! A cast of thousands!
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Hahaha. Never let facts get in the way of a good story. All that faked evidence! A cast of thousands!

The DNA & passenger identification is a distraction,
especially since there were NO airliners hijacked on 9/11/2001
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

The DNA & passenger identification is a distraction,
especially since there were NO airliners hijacked on 9/11/2001

DNA is one of the many pieces of evidence that proves 4 airliners were hijacked and crashed on 911.
Truthers have yet to provide ANY evidence to the contrary.
 
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Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

The DNA & passenger identification is a distraction,
especially since there were NO airliners hijacked on 9/11/2001

It's evidence. And you don't have any.
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

The DNA & passenger identification is a distraction,
especially since there were NO airliners hijacked on 9/11/2001

Let's presume for a moment you're correct.

How do you account for the family of the people that went missing that day, who were supposed to be on those flights?

How about their families, who haven't seen them since?

I'm genuinely interesting in your explanation here, and it's central to your theory.
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

You create an impossible scenario for someone online, then you claim debate victory when they can't fulfill it. Grow the **** up! Show me how they faked hundreds of dead airplane victims' funerals. Show me ****ing right now, how they put empty caskets into the ground and paid everyone off to keep quiet about it all. Either prove they faked funerals or don't ever come back here again. Call me when you've got the proof.

I was born with physical eyes, a brain and a conscious mind. While the eyes have always been better than 20/20, both the brain and the conscious mind took time to develop. That development came through experience, training, education, parenting - but equally as important, environment. I grew up in an environment where you accepted reality for what it was and you QUESTIONED EVERYTHING around you. Not because you had a "conspiracy theory" or because others around were not able to see clearly, but because questions lead to correct understanding and without questions, humanity will never learn anything from its past, nor ever progress forward.

So, the real question here is this: Have you objectively and without bias, ever truly questioned and conducted your own personal investigation into the evidence of the official story revolving around Shanksville? That's the real question on the table for every Citizen of the United States of America.




I will:

A) Continue to ask the common sense obvious questions that are of a technical nature and are the inescapable causation of Shanksville and 911 in specific.

B) Continue to randomly talk with people in public places whenever and wherever I can, about whether or not they have objectively and without bias truly conducted their own private investigation into the official story of September 11th, 2001.

C) Continue to share with people my understanding and background in aviation and aerospace science (formal education and professional experience), so that they understand that they have a reliable source of information and expertise on the subject matter when they have truly honest questions about the weapons used on 911.

D) Hope and Pray that someday this nations puts someone in the White House (and I voted for Obama) who has the courage and the intestinal fortitude to make the Executive Decision to call for a truly open investigation to the alleged facts of 911, while making the process as open to the public as possible.

Education is the key. Without education The People have not so much as a snow balls chance of truly understanding what took place on September 11th, 2001. It is not Rocket Science. I know Rocket Science. I've worked in Rocket Science. I understand Rocket Science. 911, is not Rocket Science. However, it does take an understanding of the weapons that were used AND the residual signature that using such weapons MUST (by logical and physical extension) leave behind in their wake. When I look at 911, having a background that guides me on the subject matter, I DO NOT SEE anywhere near the level or degree of sufficiency with respect to the residual nature of the weapons alleged to have been used on 911.

Could I be flat out wrong? Yes. There is the possibility that I and the many other experienced high-performance jet pilots, aeronautical engineers, aviation professionals, etc, could be flat out wrong when we say that there were no Boeing 757's at either the Pentagon or Shanksville. We could be wrong. We could be highly mistaken. However, the evidence that we have seen thus far, that which the government has allowed us to examine, does not indicate that commercial aircraft of the 75 type or category were used either at the Pentagon or at Shanksville. The physical evidence that one having intimate knowledge on the subject, demonstrates that something other than a Boeing 757 struck on 911. What that object was, I am not 100% certain.

When you throw an apple against a cement wall at close range, you get apple splatter. When you fire an H&K USP 45, you get recoil. When you roll a Boeing 757 weighing nearly 200,000lbs (carrying a sufficient fuel load) over on its back at speeds in excess of 435kts and you set an angle of attack at nearly 40-degree negative and you slam that aircraft into flat/level terrain, you get L-AOA geometry debris field, higher degrees of component recovery and higher potential for damage caused by fire (as just a few signatures of such a crash site).

When you tell me that in the aftermath, one of the engines bounced high into the air and landing in a nearby body of water and you NEVER allow me to inspect that engine, but you do allow photos to be released of an engine that penetrated the earth and was recovered showing obvious signs of having gone through Redox and that has a diameter that does not even come close to the diameter of the engine that I know (and love) so well - then you have just done something that clearly raises my eyebrows - both of them.

I am very familiar with the Rolls Royce Trent class of turbine powerplants, including the latest RB211-535 derivatives. I have flown the 75 as an adult. I have refueled the 75 as a school kid. I love the 75 almost until it hurts. I know this aircraft - intimately. I know what she is capable of doing and I've got a good sense of what she is not capable of doing.

The 75, is what a seven passenger Ferrari Sports Utility Vehicle would be, if Ferrari decided to make one. It is a commercial jet on steroids and anyone having operated her will tell you that without qualification. She is simply amazing. Do I love that aircraft? Obviously.

Oh, you're back again. I'm still waiting on the proof about those funerals. What's taking so long? It's okay to get help if you need it. Maybe get a buddy to help you dig up that proof.
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

To fill in just a bit here, its ALL
smoking gun, that is "FLT11" "FLT175" "FLT77" & "FLT93"
ALL FAKE!

Just as an additional bit of info, note that two different
space shuttle accidents left much bigger pieces of aircraft
than did the crashes of 9/11, what happened to the aircraft?
where are they?
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

To fill in just a bit here, its ALL
smoking gun, that is "FLT11" "FLT175" "FLT77" & "FLT93"
ALL FAKE!

Just as an additional bit of info, note that two different
space shuttle accidents left much bigger pieces of aircraft
than did the crashes of 9/11, what happened to the aircraft?
where are they?

I wasn't aware a Space Shuttle had crashed into a hard structure or the ground at 500 mph. You really, really, really need to do soooooo much better than you have been to date.
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

The DNA & passenger identification is a distraction,
especially since there were NO airliners hijacked on 9/11/2001

Yes, I can see how actual hard physical evidence accepted in any court of law in the world that completely disproves your religion can be an inconvenient distraction. Much better to make up fantasy instead.

Are you ever going to make up a fantasy you can actually stick to?
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Yes, I can see how actual hard physical evidence accepted in any court of law in the world that completely disproves your religion can be an inconvenient distraction. Much better to make up fantasy instead.

Are you ever going to make up a fantasy you can actually stick to?

You really believe that ALL of the passengers & crew & hijackers were identified using DNA?
the ONLY source for that info, is the mainstream media parroting the press-releases they got.
Given that the media is capable of modifying the story,
note the reporter who upon first look at the PENTAGON scene said
" I don't see a plane crash anywhere around here"
( and given the colloquialism & meaning, there was NO plane crash )
and the media bosses had this reporter schooled in who decides what
to report & when and after the commercial break, the reporter then corrected
himself to say there was indeed a plane crash at the Pentagon and the plane
disappeared inside the building.

The fantasy is being peddled by the mainstream media
and people with huge incredulity deny that the media is even capable
of such deception, but right there before your eyes, the LIES continue
and people refuse to get it. sorry about that ......
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

You really believe that ALL of the passengers & crew & hijackers were identified using DNA?
the ONLY source for that info, is the mainstream media parroting the press-releases they got.
Given that the media is capable of modifying the story,
note the reporter who upon first look at the PENTAGON scene said
" I don't see a plane crash anywhere around here"
( and given the colloquialism & meaning, there was NO plane crash )
and the media bosses had this reporter schooled in who decides what
to report & when and after the commercial break, the reporter then corrected
himself to say there was indeed a plane crash at the Pentagon and the plane
disappeared inside the building.

The fantasy is being peddled by the mainstream media
and people with huge incredulity deny that the media is even capable
of such deception, but right there before your eyes, the LIES continue
and people refuse to get it. sorry about that ......

The only fantasy that is being peddled is coming from the truthers.
If truthers had any evidence to the contrary they would have posted it by now.
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

You really believe that ALL of the passengers & crew & hijackers were identified using DNA?

Never said all of the passengers and crew were identified using DNA. That would be untrue.


the ONLY source for that info, is the mainstream media parroting the press-releases they got.

That is also an untrue statement.

Given that the media is capable of modifying the story,

And you and your CT buddies are not? You "modify the story" on a regular basis. I doubt you lose sleep over it.

note the reporter who upon first look at the PENTAGON scene said
" I don't see a plane crash anywhere around here"
( and given the colloquialism & meaning, there was NO plane crash )
and the media bosses had this reporter schooled in who decides what
to report & when and after the commercial break, the reporter then corrected
himself to say there was indeed a plane crash at the Pentagon and the plane
disappeared inside the building.

What is the name of this reporter? What is the source of this statement? Is the statement itself (if true) an un-reasonable first impression under the circumstances of this specific event?

The fantasy is being peddled by the mainstream media
and people with huge incredulity deny that the media is even capable
of such deception, but right there before your eyes, the LIES continue
and people refuse to get it. sorry about that ......

Here is your problem in a nutshell. Your real problem is with what you percieve as authority and in particular the media. The reason why you hold so many irrational views about 9/11 is because you desperately need in your own mind to discredit anything you see as a source of authority. This bias leaves you wide open to believe absolute nonsense peddled by idiots just because it happens to fit your political agenda. While there are many legitimate gripes about government actions and media reporting (like why do they never get my name right when I have been interviewed), mixing up the legitimate concerns about abuses of power and dubious decision making with downright whacky and ridiculous technical claims for what happened on 9/11 is a recipe for not being taken seriously.

But maybe that is what you want.

Doing so allows you to continue to play the role of rebellious outsider, a seeker of truth and justice fighting the man.

Really its all just a big, fabricated ego trip designed to give yourself the illusion of importance and power.

I'll part with this final thought: The government and the media can still be evil (some of it even run by Jooooooos) even though 9/11 was done by terrorists. If you want to complain about the very questionable federal response to 9/11 - the wars, policy decisions, civil rights implications, etc, - AND want to complain about how much (but by no means all) of the media largely went along with all of this in a fit of jingoistic fervor and a desire for revenge then by all means go for it. These are legitimate concerns worthy of public discourse. But you do yourself a huge disservice by clinging to all this inside jobby-job, no-planes nonsense. That is simply a recipe for never being taken seriously. Your legitimate concerns will never be considered because the bat-feces crazy CT crap discredits you.
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

You really believe that ALL of the passengers & crew & hijackers were identified using DNA?
the ONLY source for that info, is the mainstream media parroting the press-releases they got.
Given that the media is capable of modifying the story,
note the reporter who upon first look at the PENTAGON scene said
" I don't see a plane crash anywhere around here"
( and given the colloquialism & meaning, there was NO plane crash )
and the media bosses had this reporter schooled in who decides what
to report & when and after the commercial break, the reporter then corrected
himself to say there was indeed a plane crash at the Pentagon and the plane
disappeared inside the building.

The fantasy is being peddled by the mainstream media
and people with huge incredulity deny that the media is even capable
of such deception, but right there before your eyes, the LIES continue
and people refuse to get it. sorry about that ......

Many americans believe what they are told to believe. It's just that simple. No matter how crazy the tale, no matter how much facts and evidence contradict the story, if they are told to believe it, they do.

Using Shanksville as an example, no matter all the video evidence, no matter the numerous witness statements that corroborate, no matter the ACARS data, folks believe what they are told to.

Make a Hollywood movie, put up a marble monument, and voila, the public psyche is won over.
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Many TRUTHERS believe what they are told to believe. It's just that simple. No matter how crazy the tale, no matter how much facts and evidence contradict the story, if they are told to believe it, they do. (Fixed that for you)

That is why so many simply regurgitate TRUTHER talking points without understanding... If they had the capacity of individual thought they would soon realize what a bill of goods they were sold.

Death Rays... "Nano-thermite"... Underground explosions before the aircraft impacts... Cruise missiles into the Pentagon.... No planes... Holographic planes....

Using Shanksville as an example, no matter all the video evidence, no matter the numerous witness statements that corroborate, no matter the ACARS data, TRUTHERS believe what they are told to since they lack the ability to separate reality from their twisted fantasy... (FTFY)

Indeed ALL the EVIDENCE points to an Airliner flown into the ground at a high rate of speed. The coroner corroborates this. The physical evidence corroborates this as does radar and the phone calls that ceased upon impact. EYEWITNESS reports of hijacking corroborate this. EVERYTHING you can bring to the table corroborates this.

On the "Official Theory" side - All the EVIDENCE

One the TRUTHER side - ZERO EVIDENCE

Make a cheap DVD, put up in spooky music, and voila, the TRUTHER psyche is won over. (FTFY again)
 
Re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

What is the name of this reporter? What is the source of this statement? Is the statement itself (if true) an un-reasonable first impression under the circumstances of this specific event?

If I may....

WOODRUFF: Jamie, Aaron was talking earlier -- or one of our correspondence was talking earlier -- I think -- actually, it was Bob Franken -- with an eyewitness who said it appeared that that Boeing 757, the American jet, American Airline jet, landed short of the Pentagon.

Can you give us any better idea of how much of the plane actually impacted the building?

MCINTYRE: You know, it might have appeared that way, but from my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. The only site is the actual site of the building that's crashed in, and as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you can pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around, which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.

+++

So, airliner debris and a huge hole.

Later he reported:

...had a camera with me. I took pictures of some of the wreckage, some of the parts of the fuselage, a part of the cockpit, until they told us we had to move back away from the scene.

I saw thousands of shards of metal, of pieces of the plane all over the driveway. I didn't pick up any of them or touch any of them, but I saw them everywhere. And again, took some pictures of them.


Now McIntyre has heard the conspiracy goobs...

His response:

MCINTYRE: The Web sites often take statements out of context, such as this exchange from CNN in which I -- myself -- appear to be questioning whether a plane really hit the building: From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. In fact, I was answering a question based on a eyewitness account who thought the American Airlines plane landed short of the Pentagon. I was indicated there was no crash site near the pentagon only at the Pentagon.

So McIntyre actually WAS discussing an airliner strike AT the Pentagon and describe some of the debris (consistent with Flt77)

Another TRUTHER-lie
 
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