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"Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis[W:222, 344. 1463]

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Kat Dorman

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Sunzi seemed to have a problem with some or all of my exposition on alleged violations of Newton's third law in another thread starting here and concluding here. Since it would be off topic to pursue this matter there, I thought I'd take Sunzi's suggestion and open a new thread where the sole purpose is to elaborate on claims of amateur engineering as pertains to collapse examination.

I already made my points in the linked references, and did not initiate this particular line of thinking, so I have nothing to say at the outset. Sunzi apparently does. If so, perhaps I'll have something of substance to rebut. Sunzi, the floor's all yours.
 
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Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

my exposition on alleged violations of Newton's third law
Click to expand...

One of the most anti-intellectual things to come from 911 truth true believers the "The alleged violations of Newton's third law". And then 911 truth invent new laws, the "path of least resistance law". Where mass magically will not fall down, but goes for the air, or something. Never explained, or sourced, the path of least resistance law is what you wish was true when the linebacker knocks you down instead of bouncing into the empty space around you.

A few 911 truth anti-intellectual sayings on the topic.

The US government's official explanation for what happened on September 11, 2001 includes violating the laws of physics.

From: ae911truth.org Nullifying Newton: Official Story Violates Laws of Physics

NIST WTC 7 9/11 Theory Violates the Laws of Physics

Near-freefall collapse violates laws of physics

Prominent Structural Engineers Say Official Version of 9/11 "Impossible" "Defies Common Logic" "Violates the Law of Physics".

A free fall collapse violates the law of conservation of energy

violates the fundamental laws of physics
Click to expand...
Ironically, no source is needed, take one, google it, and find more. This anti-intellectual theme of 911 truth is repeated by all a fringe few who can't think for themselves.
When I see these "headlines" or statements, I know the people are not of science, but woo. How can anything "violate the laws of physics", at the WTC, or Pentagon, or PA on 911? If 911 was an "inside job", it would not "violate the laws of physics".

Why would anyone say this? Is 911 truth playing to the gullibility of their cult followers? Does it sound cool?

Maybe for 911 truth followers it sounds cool, sounds like super science, the cult members who freely spread the lies of 911 truth have no idea what it means, but it sounds...

The "violate the laws of physics" and "violations of Newton's third law" are a red flag, woo is coming up, get ready for stupid claims. A marker for fantasy.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi, were you under the impression that Kat was presenting "woo" ?
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

booNyzarC said:
Sunzi, were you under the impression that Kat was presenting "woo" ?
Click to expand...

I thought Kat Dorman was fighting the silly claims of "broke the laws of physics" stuff with the "exposition". I was commenting on the "laws" stuff that 911 truth come up with.

Is, "exposition on alleged violations of Newton's third law" a fight against woo? I thought it was against woo.

Did I get close?
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
I thought Kat Dorman was fighting the silly claims of "broke the laws of physics" stuff with the "exposition". I was commenting on the "laws" stuff that 911 truth come up with.

Is, "exposition on alleged violations of Newton's third law" a fight against woo? I thought it was against woo.

Did I get close?
Click to expand...
Right on the money.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
I thought Kat Dorman was fighting the silly claims of "broke the laws of physics" stuff with the "exposition". I was commenting on the "laws" stuff that 911 truth come up with.

Is, "exposition on alleged violations of Newton's third law" a fight against woo? I thought it was against woo.

Did I get close?
Click to expand...

Kat is indeed fighting woo, not ,,,, forgive me,,, pitching it.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

I watched this really great documentary about Einstein yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcXxHZssCh4

But it is so interesting that they didn't just accept mathematics as proof of his theory.

They demanded experimental evidence. :roll:

Funny how that doesn't apply to 9/11. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[174]
psik
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

psikeyhackr said:
I watched this really great documentary about Einstein yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcXxHZssCh4

But it is so interesting that they didn't just accept mathematics as proof of his theory.

They demanded experimental evidence. :roll:

Funny how that doesn't apply to 9/11. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[174]
psik
Click to expand...
Full up model on 911, proof of fires and gravity collapse, did you miss it? No experiment, the real thing. Funny how people watch an event, and miss the reality. 12 years of lies from 911 truth, and 911 truth can't figure out 911, stuck in the Conspiracy Theories sub-forums with their failed CD fantasy of woo.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
Full up model on 911, proof of fires and gravity collapse, did you miss it? No experiment, the real thing. Funny how people watch an event, and miss the reality. 12 years of lies from 911 truth, and 911 truth can't figure out 911, stuck in the Conspiracy Theories sub-forums with their failed CD fantasy of woo.
Click to expand...

So why can't you tell us how many different weights of perimeter wall panels there were and how many of each weight?

There were only 2900 of them on each building.

psik
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

psikeyhackr said:
So why can't you tell us how many different weights of perimeter wall panels there were and how many of each weight?

There were only 2900 of them on each building.

psik
Click to expand...
I can tell you but it will cost 14,000 dollars. I am an engineer, I can tell you but I have to charge for my work. My off time is free, on the clock costs. Bet other engineers might charge less. Any lay person could come real close on the estimate, and save money; after 12 years anyone could have very close estimates. It is easy to whine about not knowing, and waste 12 years. Why can't you estimate the weight?
I take paypal.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
I can tell you but it will cost 14,000 dollars. I am an engineer, I can tell you but I have to charge for my work. My off time is free, on the clock costs. Bet other engineers might charge less. Any lay person could come real close on the estimate, and save money; after 12 years anyone could have very close estimates. It is easy to whine about not knowing, and waste 12 years. Why can't you estimate the weight?
I take paypal.
Click to expand...

Nice excuse for what should be public information about the building.

psik
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

psikeyhackr said:
Nice excuse for what should be public information about the building.

psik
Click to expand...
No, it should not be, the building is not public, or is it? You can't do basic structural engineering, something any layperson can do; why can't you?

Anyone could estimate what you want. You seem to be the only person on earth complaining about what people do all the time; basic research to solve simple problems.

Do you make up the "should be" stuff? Is that an opinion?
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
I can tell you but it will cost 14,000 dollars. I am an engineer, I can tell you but I have to charge for my work. My off time is free, on the clock costs. Bet other engineers might charge less. Any lay person could come real close on the estimate, and save money; after 12 years anyone could have very close estimates. It is easy to whine about not knowing, and waste 12 years. Why can't you estimate the weight?
I take paypal.
Click to expand...



yeh sure another self proclaimed expert. He will go to the nearest debunker site and copy paste something for you for 14 LOL
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

psikeyhackr said:
Sunzi

So why can't you tell us how many different weights of perimeter wall panels there were and how many of each weight?

There were only 2900 of them on each building.

psik
Click to expand...

because he is an engineer.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
One of the most anti-intellectual things to come from 911 truth true believers the "The alleged violations of Newton's third law". And then 911 truth invent new laws, the "path of least resistance law". Where mass magically will not fall down, but goes for the air, or something. Never explained, or sourced, the path of least resistance law is what you wish was true when the linebacker knocks you down instead of bouncing into the empty space around you.

A few 911 truth anti-intellectual sayings on the topic.


Ironically, no source is needed, take one, google it, and find more. This anti-intellectual theme of 911 truth is repeated by all a fringe few who can't think for themselves.
When I see these "headlines" or statements, I know the people are not of science, but woo. How can anything "violate the laws of physics", at the WTC, or Pentagon, or PA on 911? If 911 was an "inside job", it would not "violate the laws of physics".

Why would anyone say this? Is 911 truth playing to the gullibility of their cult followers? Does it sound cool?

Maybe for 911 truth followers it sounds cool, sounds like super science, the cult members who freely spread the lies of 911 truth have no idea what it means, but it sounds...

The "violate the laws of physics" and "violations of Newton's third law" are a red flag, woo is coming up, get ready for stupid claims. A marker for fantasy.
Click to expand...

well see we get into the comprehension of the english language again.

It truly helps if you realize that those claims are directed toward the loony debunker theories that are so ridiculous they violate the laws of physics not the actual event itself. You know just like nist failing to achieve freefall in their model. Loony crazy engineers with the head so far up their asses even windshield wipers arent good enough. In other words its not the event in and of itself its the lunars who are trying to stuff it into the wrong box!
 
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Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Kat Dorman said:
Sunzi seemed to have a problem with some or all of my exposition on alleged violations of Newton's third law in another thread starting here and concluding here. Since it would be off topic to pursue this matter there, I thought I'd take Sunzi's suggestion and open a new thread where the sole purpose is to elaborate on claims of amateur engineering as pertains to collapse examination.

I already made my points in the linked references, and did not initiate this particular line of thinking, so I have nothing to say at the outset. Sunzi apparently does. If so, perhaps I'll have something of substance to rebut. Sunzi, the floor's all yours.
Click to expand...

nist explained that freefall for a naturally collapsing building is impossible. Nist acknowledged freefall. Looks like I need to make some popcorn and grab a sixer!

 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

KokomoJojo said:


yeh sure another self proclaimed expert. He will go to the nearest debunker site and copy paste something for you for 14 LOL
Click to expand...
I flew heavy jets too. What did you do? I did engineering work, flew jet, flew supersonic jets, and you make up lies about 911. You won, you have stuff to discuss where fantasy is discussed. You have 911 truth lies, and you are fooled. if you paid USA taxes, you paid for my flight training, and my masters degree in engineering. I am not an expert, I went to school and flew jet and did engineering so I would have something to think about when I am weeding the bottom 40, digging ditches. I am ordinary, I love it, lay people beat me at half speed. I have got people so upset at me, they tried to kill me with SCUD missiles.

Sad to say it, but engineers can get 14,000 dollars or more a week for consulting, why can't you?

You have fantasy, I got the money for being a pilot and an engineer. Looks like you won - congratulations. Where are we posting? Conspiracy Theories, the only place your fantasy claims about 911 can be posted. You won again.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
Looks like you won - congratulations. Where are we posting? Conspiracy Theories, the only place your fantasy claims about 911 can be posted. You won again.
Click to expand...

Makes a statement about the current state of the "system"
when there have been many attempts at launching lawsuits
that would have involved a discovery stage where INFORMATION
could be obtained by court order, but ALL of the lawsuits have been
thrown out before hearing any of them. is JUSTICE served in AMERICA?

Think about it.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

CATiwampus said:
Makes a statement about the current state of the "system"
when there have been many attempts at launching lawsuits
that would have involved a discovery stage where INFORMATION
could be obtained by court order, but ALL of the lawsuits have been
thrown out before hearing any of them. is JUSTICE served in AMERICA?

Think about it.
Click to expand...


Let me think...

911 truth followers are gullible and paranoid? Is that what you are saying? Was McVeigh like that? The Boston Bombers believed the lies of 911 truth; did that help them justify their acts, fantasy of 911 truth?
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
I flew heavy jets too. What did you do? I did engineering work, flew jet, flew supersonic jets, and you make up lies about 911. You won, you have stuff to discuss where fantasy is discussed. You have 911 truth lies, and you are fooled. if you paid USA taxes, you paid for my flight training, and my masters degree in engineering. I am not an expert, I went to school and flew jet and did engineering so I would have something to think about when I am weeding the bottom 40, digging ditches. I am ordinary, I love it, lay people beat me at half speed. I have got people so upset at me, they tried to kill me with SCUD missiles.

Sad to say it, but engineers can get 14,000 dollars or more a week for consulting, why can't you?

You have fantasy, I got the money for being a pilot and an engineer. Looks like you won - congratulations. Where are we posting? Conspiracy Theories, the only place your fantasy claims about 911 can be posted. You won again.
Click to expand...


blah blah blah blah blah

beer farts and belches

when I see a post that actually looks like it came from anything more than a janitor I will start paying attention.

until then carry on

blah blah blah blah blah

oh and gravity does not remove asbestos.... Mr Engineer.
 
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Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
Let me think...

911 truth followers are gullible and paranoid? Is that what you are saying? Was McVeigh like that? The Boston Bombers believed the lies of 911 truth; did that help them justify their acts, fantasy of 911 truth?
Click to expand...

you have been listening to the mainstream media's rants about how crazy 9/11 "truthers" are.
Do you buy this one: 9/11 truthers are crazy, therefor proving conclusively that angry Arabs
hijacked airliners & crashed them into the world trade center & Pentagon. is that the logic?
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

CATiwampus said:
Makes a statement about the current state of the "system"
when there have been many attempts at launching lawsuits
that would have involved a discovery stage where INFORMATION
could be obtained by court order, but ALL of the lawsuits have been
thrown out before hearing any of them. is JUSTICE served in AMERICA?

Think about it.
Click to expand...



judges know.

no one wants that kind of hot potato in their panties.

They all remember what happened to the AZ judge when he went against the status quo.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

CATiwampus said:
you have been listening to the mainstream media's rants about how crazy 9/11 "truthers" are.
Do you buy this one: 9/11 truthers are crazy, therefor proving conclusively that angry Arabs
hijacked airliners & crashed them into the world trade center & Pentagon. is that the logic?
Click to expand...



here is the logic!

Psychologists Say: ‘Conspiracy Theorists’ SANE, Government Dupes CRAZY and Hostile.

Laurie Manwell, Univ of Guelph; users of the [CT], “Conspiracy Theorist” label impedes their cognitive function, published in American Behavioral Scientist 2010; anti-conspiracy people are unable to think clearly due to their inability to process information that conflicts with pre-existing beliefs.

Univ of Buffalo Prof Steven Hoffman; anti-conspiracy people prone to “confirmation bias”, and pre-existing belief confirmation, using irrational mechanisms (such as the “Conspiracy Theorist” label) to avoid personal conflict.

Extreme irrationality of those who attack “Conspiracy Theorist's” is exposed by Ginna Husting and Martin Orr of Boise State Univ. In a 2007 peer-reviewed article entitled “Dangerous Machinery: Conspiracy Theorist's as a Transpersonal Strategy of Exclusion.

Now pro-conspiracy voices are more numerous and rational than anti-conspiracy ones and anti-CT people are like hostile, paranoid cranks.
 
Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

KokomoJojo said:
blah blah blah blah blah

when I see a post that actually looks like it came from anything more than a janitor I will start paying attention.

until then carry on

blah blah blah blah blah

oh and gravity does not remove asbestos.... Mr Engineer.
Click to expand...
Mr 911 truth follower...

E=mgh, is the energy stored in the WTC; anyone who can do physics knows each WTC collapse energy released due to gravity was equal to 130 tons of TNT. 911 truth followers should not be like Boston Bombers, more like physics students, able to comprehend WTC collapses; should have taken physics.

At least 911 truth has famous believers like the Boston Bombers. Bet they failed physics too.


What 911 truth can't do;;; physics - during the collapse of each tower this energy was released, E=mgh, but 911 truth can't do physics, so they make up lies and the silly fantasy of CD, cause they can't come up with 576,000,000,000 joules.

911 truth, a movement with no math, no physics, no engineering, no idea what happened on 911, so fantasy is 911 truth's only product.

576,000,000,000 joules due to gravity is like, 130 2,000 pound bombs dropped on the WTC, twice. Why can't 911 truth do math? Physics? Science?



KokomoJojo said:
blah.... looks like it came from anything more than a janitor I will start paying attention. ... Mr Engineer.
Click to expand...
Why do you make fun of janitors? I told you, I took engineering and learned to fly jets so I could have something to think about when I cleaned the toilets, and washed the floor. Making fun of people who work; wow, you must be a superior human.

Janitors don't for the lies of 911 truth. The fantasy of 911 truth is rejected by Janitors.
Janitors smarter than 911 truth followers; and twice as smart as pilot for truth followers.
 
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Re: "Amateur Engineering" practice in progressive collapse analysis

Sunzi said:
Mr 911 truth follower...

E=mgh, is the energy stored in the WTC; anyone who can do physics knows each WTC collapse energy released due to gravity was equal to 130 tons of TNT. 911 truth followers should not be like Boston Bombers, more like physics students, able to comprehend WTC collapses; should have taken physics.

At least 911 truth has famous believers like the Boston Bombers. Bet they failed physics too.


What 911 truth can't do;;; physics - during the collapse of each tower this energy was released, E=mgh, but 911 truth can't do physics, so they make up lies and the silly fantasy of CD, cause they can't come up with 576,000,000,000 joules.

911 truth, a movement with no math, no physics, no engineering, no idea what happened on 911, so fantasy is 911 truth's only product.

576,000,000,000 joules due to gravity is like, 130 2,000 pound bombs dropped on the WTC, twice. Why can't 911 truth do math? Physics? Science?




Why do you make fun of janitors? I told you, I took engineering and learned to fly jets so I could have something to think about when I cleaned the toilets, and washed the floor. Making fun of people who work; wow, you must be a superior human.

Janitors don't for the lies of 911 truth. The fantasy of 911 truth is rejected by Janitors.
Janitors smarter than 911 truth followers; and twice as smart as pilot for truth followers.
Click to expand...


so you padding the bill there by about 32,000,000,000 joules or your calculator broken?

Then again maybe engineers with masters degrees cant do math.

However there is a bigger problem afoot here.

In a previous post you told PH that you would charge 14k to figure out the weight of 1 floor.

Well guess what, you cant calculate the potential energy of the building without knowing the weight of the floors.

So which version is the lie?

gravity does NOT scrub asbestos off steel.
 
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