I get that... but what do you call that when multiple witnesses give the same story??? What do you call that if those multiple witnesses are ignored for a move convenient story?
If multiple witnesses give similar testimony, then it should be investigated, but there are many reasons why police wouldn't plan to follow up on it, such as questionable gaps in the testimonies given that create credibility issues. There are also reasons why police might
say that they aren't going to investigate any further. With the threat of more attacks to come from equally vigilant extremists, I wouldn't reveal that I was going to continue searching for them. If they think they got away with it, they'll become complacent, and make mistakes a lot quicker than they would if they thought they were still being hunted. Maybe that's the case, maybe not.
Since I don't know the acoustics of that particular area, and we're talking about on an island not in buildings... we really can't say for certain how easily sounds would be located. BUT the whole POINT being raised here is that witnesses telling of something like a second shooter is not something that should be easily dismissed... especially with such a high number of casualties (which is not me saying that he could not have acted alone, but when you have witnesses, multiples giving similar descriptions), it's not necessarily something that should be dismissed off-hand.
I get that, information is still coming out. My problem with the claim isn't the number of shooters, it's the assertion that this was done by a "Manchurian Candidate" to serve as a 'false flag', and a punishment for not submitting to the will of the EU.
However, since we're on the topic of acoustics, and identifying the number of gunmen, this is a topic I'm very familiar with. Alright, first off, you're doing dismounted movement (patrolling on foot), you've been out for a while, there's no reason to expect any enemy activity, you get complacent. Similar state as the children, they had absolutely no reason to expect Breivik's kill spree. Squad Leader decides to take 5, smoke if you got 'em. You sit down, you light up, take that first long drag, then BOOM! Small arms fire. The first instinct is to immediately hit the ground, and find any cover or concealment you can. You don't know if anyone has been hit, you don't even know if you're hit, because that surge of adrenaline instantaneously hits, and takes over.
You've probably heard the term "fog of war". That originates from the clouds of smoke that bellowed from the first few volleys of muskets that obscure the view of the battlefield, but has come to represent the psychological state in the initial moments of 'contact' (when the unit engages, or is engaged by the enemy). What happens is that you basically go into a state of shock called Acute Stress Reaction (ASR). I don't know your level of knowledge on this condition, so I'll go over the different types, and effects to give a better understanding of what's going on, but I have to tell you, this part is going to be very long, so please bear with me. I'll try to condense the explanation as much as possible without oversimplifying it. This part is pretty important in understanding the mindset of a person when attacked. If you're already familiar with it, disregard the next 4 paragraphs.
ASR is the state of shock that occurs with facing an attack, or any traumatic event. A lot of things happen in the brain when this mechanism is triggered, certain chemicals get released, most importantly epinephrine, and norepinephrine (It gets really complicated, so I'm sticking to the basics on this). Epinephrine and norepinephrine, when released and bonded to adrenergic receptors (adrenaline) increases heart rate, opens up, smooths out, and expands the airways, opens up the arteries and veins, speeding up the heart rate and blood flow, effects the metabolism in a way that it provides necessary fuel for immediate consumption, and contracts certain muscle groups. In other words, it opens the throttle as wide as it'll go, and the tissues response to it is immediate. The problem with this mechanism is that when the traumatic event happens, the appropriate glands dump very large quantities of the chemicals into the tissues.
So, the airways are open, and the blood is pumping very fast. There's a very simple exercise to demonstrate the effects of this on the mind, if you want to try it out. I cannot stress enough, the importance of being seated for this, pick a nice comfortable chair, or couch if you can. Alright, while seated, take ten normal breaths. There won't be any change to anything, you're breathing normally, everything is fine. Now take ten very deep breaths, slowly fill your lungs as much as you can with air as you can through the mouth, then slowly let it out through the nose. If you're doing it right, around the fifth rep, you should begin to feel pretty good, relaxed, calm, and when you get to ten you should be at, or near a state of full relaxation. You just melt to the chair, and you're just mellow. Start breathing normally, take about five minutes to get back to that normal state. Now, sit up straight, loosen up a little bit, but not too much, like you're working at your desk. Take ten very rapid breaths, in out in out, as fast as you can. What's going to happen is you're going to get a wicked rush. That's what happens with the adrenaline, epinephrine, and norepinephrine dump. Why you get that rush with the rapid breathing is because you're actually giving your brain less oxygen.
Those are the physical effects. Now, the psychological factors vary here and there, because everybody's brain chemistry is different. Imagine the brain as a series of railroad tracks. When that traumatic event hits, a great deal of switches get flipped, which redirects the flow of chemical, and electrical impulse. Everybody reacts a little differently, that depends on too many factors to list, but certain things happen similarly in the majority of people. At first, there's a brief period of 'haziness', that's the chemical dump. It happens immediately, and your mind says "oh crap!". Following the "oh crap!" phase, could be a split moment, could be a couple seconds, the tissues and mind adjust to that dramatic change. Because it's so drastic, though, and your norepinephrine gets depleted from its natural flow, you still aren't "right", but this is where the variances kick in. Some people will react in anger, and severe agitation, some will get a severe anxiety, some will suffer a nervous depression, which is a mental, emotional, and even physical exhaustion. It's difficult to explain if you haven't had a nervous depression before, same with the anxiety. Ask if you want to know more about it, though. Another common reaction that can either accompany the other reactions, or can act as its own reaction in greater severity is disassociation. That is when the mind doesn't connect to reality, and what's going on. An interesting quote from Hunter S Thompson covers it pretty well:
The mind recoils in horror, unable to communicate with the spinal column. Which is interesting because you can actually watch yourself behaving in this terrible way, but you can't control it.
So, your head is racing from a lowered level of oxygen, you're in a panic, and depending on how your brain reacts, you're either very pissed off (like a blind rage), very "edged out" (severe anxiety), or unable to function, and on top of that, have a very skewed grasp on reality. The effects of ASR are very overwhelming, and in some people, it can linger for days if not properly diagnosed and treated, which can lead to retrograde amnesia, and PTSD.
With all of this in mind, I think it should be easier to understand what I'm trying to explain. I don't think it's fully possible for the witnesses to give accurate details, no matter how much they want to.
And no, I'm not dismissing what you're talking about... which I should get to now, I do owe you an apology for my crassness, and even where I WOULD talk about "government" / "military" type conspiracies, I hope you would realize that these are people that would be "barely" in the military... like people that were in the military and had a fake death so they could become part of some black squad somewhere that "does those tough things to keep america safe". Now, I hope you respect my intelligence enough to not deny that these TYPES of setups MIGHT come up under certain circumstances?
Apology accepted, and yeah, you're describing Blackwater, and certain varieties of intelligence, and SF personnel.
I do have a peeve here, and it's not you, but the terminology you're using is all wrong, and a couple things are incorrect. You are describing things that do, or did exist, but the words you're using to describe them are incorrect. I'm not trying to be a dick, but part of what I do is teach. So, first one, people that were in the military, just former military, or prior Service. People that fit your description don't fake their deaths. The Military, and the government don't let any of their people work without some level of supervision and accountability. They also have to be in the system to get paid, know what to do with the remains, where to send the members pay and assets upon death, etc. If anyone is working in a condition where the government isn't aware of their existence, they don't work for the government. That's not to say that members and operations can't be concealed to the point that very few know about them, and what they're doing, but there's always someone who knows, there's always a chain of command. Not having one is dangerous, and stupid.
Also, the use of the word "black", that's a negative. We did use "black" to refer to secret operations in the 60's and 70's, but it's an archaic term now. We just use "classified", "secret" or call it/them by whatever designator code is assigned, and the whole "keeping America safe" thing is just political rhetoric. Nobody else says that crap, because it's a bunch of bull****. What we do is whatever we're ordered to do. Same with the CIA, the FBI, Secret Service, all of them. "Rouge agents" make for good tv and books, but it's not as real, or common as it's made to sound.
Ok, granted if someone was so inclined to blow something up they can rig a vehicle to blow pretty big... for the record I wouldn't do such a thing if I DID have the capacity to build one.
If you want a good bang:buck ratio, a car bomb is the way to go.
But, let's get this right... Brevik planted explosives in his car, then took a taxi to the edge of the water, then hopped on a boat to get to this camp, blows up the car and then starts shooting? We're talking a multiple hour trip... but like you say about deranged people.
Well, yeah, you can trigger the explosives with a cell phone. It's a surprisingly easy mechanism, the combatants in Iraq were using cell phone triggers mid-war. It's really clever, actually, they may be a lot of things, but they aren't stupid.
Do you also remember how quickly people accused muslim extremists?? It's a deliberate psychological tactic of melding both "muslim extremists" and "right wing"
I don't know about that one, dude. Every time there's a terrorist attack, a bombing, a plane crash, whatever, it's automatically
assumed to be Muslim radicals. I can't even say I blame anyone for the reaction, with all the turmoil that's been caused in Europe by them, it's almost a Pavlovian response.
(or leftwing) extremists, hell, go back to the MIAC reports, and other similar reports that have probably gone fully nation wide by now.
I read it, it was an initial reaction. Initial reactions like this are basically caused by a strong correlation, or recurring patterns of behavior. I mean, come on. Car bomb in a heavily populated area? I'd be surprised if people didn't think it was Muslim radicals. I don't know if Norway has preexisting issues with right wing extremists, but it's definitely a possibility.
You want to know who terrorists are, ask the pentagon what anwar al-awlaki was doing there being wined and dined by the top brass??? (That was back just before he became an internationally recognized terrorist, btw)
We used him as a poster child for moderate Islam because we needed a face that would ease foreign and domestic tensions between us and Islam. We were wrong about him, we were wrong about a lot of things. That's what happens when you start a war as a knee-jerk reaction.
I'll address the rest at a later time.
eace