FOR INFIDELS: Islam and the Submission of Women

bhkad · 07-30-08, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winston53660

At the the University of bkhad?

No thanxs.

For four years or more we non-Muslims have been running around making fools of ourselves and groping in the dark for answers to questions that Muslims knew but seldom volunteered the answers or seldom told the complete truth about. As a result we remained ignorant and without any consensus on what Islam is or Jihad or how it works or what the different ideas mean and how they impact non-Muslims we have been unable to come to a realistic and fair way of dealing with Islam and Muslims.

Some Infidels, because of a lack of accurate knowledge, erred on the side of Political Correctness. And that worked in the extremists' favor and is still the operative mode for most of America.

I take it you don't want this to change.

Other Infidels, because of a lack of accurate information about Islam, choose the other tack and respond with hostility, anger and violence. And THAT ALSO works in the extremists' favor because these people can be shamed by the rest of the Infidel population and kept in check by the law enforcement agencies if they get too far out of line.

So, I can see how you wouldn't want this to change, either.

And so when Americans try to determine how best to deal with the problem of terrorism and the GWOT and Islamic aggression (globally as well as domestically) and such, these opposing schools of thought produce antagonism within our ranks. We have gotten to the point where liberals HATE Conservatives and vice versa.

Our Presidential election turns on the basis of how either of the candidates plans to deal with the war in Iraq, our domestic border and illegal alien problems, immigration, the threat of Iran, our national budget, taxes, imported vs domestic oil and the GWOT in general. All of which are impacted by our failure to come to grips with this fundamental issue.

Y'all have had the chance to enlighten us but instead you just tended us like sheep.

Sorry, but this is long overdue.

bhkad · 07-30-08, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tucker Case

OK, so Islam is like all other religions. Now explain how ISLAM (not radical Islam) is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity.

And don't cite ANY source outside of the scriptures themselves.

This is a test and it isn't open book.

Ooops, it looks like your Muslim sense of elitism is showing.

Islam is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity because Islam has done nothing to neutralize it's most violent ideological commandments, but Christianity has.

In another thread I point out the dual nature of political Islam. This means that the Koran may say two different things that seem to contradict each other, yet they can both be true.

This is difficult for most Westerners to understand but it seems that Muslims become accustomed to it because it is so often demonstrated in the Koran.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/church...post1057683345 (FOR INFIDELS: Duality and Political Islam)

Part of that duality or maybe the entire principle of dual logic may be explained by the term, "abrogation."

Quote:

Those Westerners who manage to pick up a translation of the Quran are often left bewildered as to its meaning thanks to ignorance of a critically important principle of Quranic interpretation known as "abrogation."

The principle of abrogation -- al-naskh wa al-mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated) -- directs that verses revealed later in Muhammad's career "abrogate" -- i.e., cancel and replace -- earlier ones whose instructions they may contradict. Thus, passages revealed later in Muhammad's career, in Medina, overrule passages revealed earlier, in Mecca. The Quran itself lays out the principle of abrogation:

2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?

Anyone who has worked in a large corporation may be familiar with inter-office Memos or company directives. The military also uses these kinds of communications which are sent to all sub divisions or groups or individuals to inform them of a directive, implementation of a plan or procedure or to notify them of a supply shortage or surplus and so on. Well, when a new change in the situation takes place a new memo is then issued which supersedes the previous one and the old one is thrown away and everyone makes the necessary changes and proceeds on that basis.

In the Koran it seems that in 2:106 the same idea is being expressed. New ideas will be introduced which will override the old ones. But the Koran retains both the older one and the later one and only the later one should be obeyed.

Quote:

It seems that 2:106 was revealed in response to skepticism directed at Muhammad that Allah's revelations were not entirely consistent over time. Muhammad's rebuttal was that "Allah is able to do all things" -- even change his mind. To confuse matters further, though the Quran was revealed to Muhammad sequentially over some twenty years' time, it was not compiled in chronological order. When the Quran was finally collated into book form under Caliph Uthman, the suras were ordered from longest to shortest with no connection whatever to the order in which they were revealed or to their thematic content. In order to find out what the Quran says on a given topic, it is necessary to examine the other Islamic sources that give clues as to when in Muhammad's lifetime the revelations occurred. Upon such examination, one discovers that the Meccan suras, revealed at a time when the Muslims were vulnerable, are generally benign; the later Medinan suras, revealed after Muhammad had made himself the head of an army, are bellicose.

Let us take, for example, 50:45 and Sura 109, both revealed in Mecca:

50:45. We know of best what they say; and you (O Muhammad) are not a tyrant over them (to force them to Belief). But warn by the Qur'an, him who fears My Threat.

109:1. Say (O Muhammad to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar {divine foreordainment and sustaining of all things}, etc.)!
109:2. "I worship not that which you worship,
109:3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
109:5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."

Then there is this passage revealed just after the Muslims reached Medina and were still vulnerable:

2:256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut {idolatry} and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

In contrast, take 9:5, commonly referred to as the "Verse of the Sword", revealed toward the end of Muhammad's life:

9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Having been revealed later in Muhammad?s life than 50:45, 109, and 2:256, the Verse of the Sword abrogates their peaceful injunctions in accordance with 2:106. Sura 8, revealed shortly before Sura 9, reveals a similar theme:

8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

The Quran's commandments to Muslims to wage war in the name of Allah against non-Muslims are unmistakable. They are, furthermore, absolutely authoritative as they were revealed late in the Prophet's career and so cancel and replace earlier instructions to act peaceably. Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, Westerners will continue to misread the Quran and misdiagnose Islam as a "religion of peace."

Jihad Watch: Islam 101

So, to answer your question, because older instructions do indeed preach peace and tolerance, it can be said that those who follow those instructions are following the rightful interpretation.

But because of the principle of abrogation, where the later instructions are the ones which are supposed to be the operative ones, a so-called 'extremist' may also be correct in claiming that his interpretation is the correct one.

And until Muslims address this and decide that one is correct and the other is not correct, there will ALWAYS be a certain number of Muslims who will be able to CORRECTLY assert that their interpretation of the Koran is correct.

And for that reason ISLAM is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity.

Because out the front door of the Koran walk perfectly wonderful Muslims who it would be anyone's delight to befriend.

Yet, out the back door of Islam march those who have Allah's blessing to conquer, compel to convert or capitulate or kill until all of mankind submits to Allah's rule.

And the ones walking out the front door can't say the back door Muslims are wrong, only that they do unpleasant things.

But ALL Muslims recognize this to be true:

Quote:

"The only statement about humanity as a whole is that all humanity must submit to Islam."

Duality and Political Islam - New English Review

Christians recognize this statement to be true:

Quote:

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

-- Matthew 22:36-40

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

There shouldn't be any doubt now that Islam is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity because Islam has done nothing to neutralize it's most violent ideological commandments, but Christianity has.

winston53660 · 07-30-08, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Sorry, but this is long overdue.

You have been on the same diatribe for years now. You have been staring into the abyss or way to long and turned into the very thing you claim to hate.

bhkad · 07-30-08, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winston53660

You have been on the same diatribe for years now. You have been staring into the abyss or way to long and turned into the very thing you claim to hate.

I have never said I hate the truth or education or equality.

Show me where Muslims have changed the Koran to negate the violent message any zealous believer might choose to believe.

NO one mistakes the Bible's message as anything but to love the Lord, and love thy neighbor.

But with Islam there is a dual message and you can always say that the extremists are nuts. But show me where the KORAN says they are wrong.

And keep in mind the principle of abrogation where the last instructions are the ones which take precedence.

Tucker Case · 07-30-08, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

And for that reason ISLAM is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity.

Because out the front door of the Koran walk perfectly wonderful Muslims who it would be anyone's delight to befriend.

Yet, out the back door of Islam march those who have Allah's blessing to conquer, compel to convert or capitulate or kill until all of mankind submits to Allah's rule.

And the ones walking out the front door can't say the back door Muslims are wrong, only that they do unpleasant things.

But ALL Muslims recognize this to be true:

Christians recognize this statement to be true:

There shouldn't be any doubt now that Islam is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity because Islam has done nothing to neutralize it's most violent ideological commandments, but Christianity has.

LMFAO. So Christians now practice Naskh?

You make the mistake of applying MUSLIM law (abrogation) to Christianity.

But, as we all know Naskh is a Muslim ideological game, so while you may WANT to believe that Jesus' words NEUTRALIZE the violent passages, they do not.

It can easily be shown that Jesus came to FULFILL, not DESTORY the law.

This ALSO back-doors people into zealotry because "fulfill" does NOT always mean "Bring to an end" It can also mean "Put into effect". (Stone that shellfish-eater immediately!!!)

Thus certain interpretations of the Bible coupled with Jesus' bringing of the sword can (and will) be used the same way Islamic scripture is used.

Thus, I can accurately argue that Christianity is JUST as much of a threat as Islam since BOTH can (and will) be used as an EXCUSE for violence.

P.S. I can do it even more for Judaism since it doesn't even have the so-called "Neutralizing" factor of Jesus' words (which, in your eyes, nullify the countless insane and violent portions of the bible).

So I am forced into asking you:

Isn't it true that using your logic, Judaism, and by extension, Israel (the Jewish state) is an equally dangerous threat to the west (read: Christianity) as Islam?

And thus if Islam must be defeated, then Israel and Judaism should be defeated as well?

Remain using the same logic you use against Islam, please.

bhkad · 07-30-08, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tucker Case

LMFAO. So Christians now practice Naskh?

You make the mistake of applying MUSLIM law (abrogation) to Christianity.

But, as we all know Naskh is a Muslim ideological game, so while you may WANT to believe that Jesus' words NEUTRALIZE the violent passages, they do not.

It can easily be shown that Jesus came to FULFILL, not DESTORY the law.

This ALSO back-doors people into zealotry because "fulfill" does NOT always mean "Bring to an end" It can also mean "Put into effect". (Stone that shellfish-eater immediately!!!)

Thus certain interpretations of the Bible coupled with Jesus' bringing of the sword can (and will) be used the same way Islamic scripture is used.

Thus, I can accurately argue that Christianity is JUST as much of a threat as Islam since BOTH can (and will) be used as an EXCUSE for violence.

P.S. I can do it even more for Judaism since it doesn't even have the so-called "Neutralizing" factor of Jesus' words (which, in your eyes, nullify the countless insane and violent portions of the bible).

So I am forced into asking you:

Isn't it true that using your logic, Judaism, and by extension, Israel (the Jewish state) is an equally dangerous threat to the west (read: Christianity) as Islam?

And thus if Islam must be defeated, then Israel and Judaism should be defeated as well?

Remain using the same logic you use against Islam, please.

When studied on paper from a scientific standpoint the bumble bee should not be able to fly.

And yet it does.

The wise man looks for ALL relevant data from which to draw a conclusion.

How many people have Christians killed in the name of God this past 30 days?

How many people have been killed in the name of Allah these last 30 days?

Quote:

List of Islamic Terror Attacks For the Past 2 Months
Date Country City Killed Injured Description
7/28/2008 Afghanistan Nuristan 3 0 A Taliban rocket attack on a residential area leaves three dead.
7/28/2008 Pakistan Matta 3 2 Three Pakistanis in a truck are shot to death by Tehrik-e-Taliban terrorists.
7/28/2008 Iraq Baghdad 32 102 Three female suicide bombers run into crowds of Shia pilgrims before detonating. Some thirty-two innocents are killed.
7/28/2008 Iraq Kirkuk 38 178 A fedayeen suicide bomber attacks a political rally, slaughtering nearly forty people.
7/28/2008 Iraq Mussayab 1 0 A woman is abducted, tied up and then murdered by suspected fundamentalists.
7/28/2008 Pakistan Mohmand 1 0 A 60-year-old man is abducted and murdered by the Mujahideen.
7/28/2008 Pakistan Kohat 2 12 A teenager is among two people blown apart when Islamic militants detonate a bomb attached to a bicycle.
7/27/2008 Pakistan Charbagh 1 5 A child is killed when fundamentalists bomb a shopping center.
7/27/2008 Iraq Fallujah 2 2 Radical Sunnis bomb a house, killing two occupants.
7/27/2008 Iraq Baghdad 7 0 Seven young Shia pilgrims on foot are shot at point-blank range by Sunni gunmen.
7/27/2008 Iraq Buhriz 2 0 Two oil workers are murdered by Jihadi bombers.
7/26/2008 India Ahmedabad 45 161 Islamic bombers rock India for a second day, setting seventeen bombs and killing over forty innocent people.
7/26/2008 Lebanon Tripoli 9 50 A 10-year-old boy and a woman are among nine people killed in a sectarian conflict between Sunni and Alawite.
7/26/2008 Somalia Gedo 3 0 Islamic militia shoot three people to death at a roadblock.
7/26/2008 Pakistan Dera Bugti 3 0 Three local cops are murdered by Islamists in separate attacks.
7/26/2008 Iraq Hilla 1 0 Islamic gunmen take down a 4-year-old girl.
7/25/2008 India Bangalore 2 10 Islamists set off a series of bombs, leaving two innocents dead, including a woman.
7/25/2008 Pal. Auth. Gaza 1 3 A bomb set outside a Christian cafe kills one person.
7/25/2008 Bangladesh Sadar 1 0 Suspected Jama'atul Mujahideen strangle a woman, then hang her from a tree.
7/25/2008 Pal. Auth. Gaza 1 15 A bomb kills a young girl.
7/24/2008 Iraq Baqubah 8 25 A female suicide bomber kills eight Sunni Iraqis.
7/24/2008 India Doda 4 0 A woman and a 13-year-old girl are among four civilians shot to death during a Hizb-ul-Mujahideen home invasion.
7/24/2008 Yemen Sayoun 4 12 al-Qaeda is suspected in the car bombing of a ministry building that leaves four dead.
7/24/2008 Afghanistan Paktia 3 4 Talibanis murder three local police with a bomb.
7/24/2008 Philippines Digos 2 10 A group tied to the Moro Islamic Front is suspected in the bombing of a bus in which two people died.
7/24/2008 India Srinagar 5 28 Four children, ages 4 to 12, are killed along with a woman from the same family of migrant workers when Islamic terrorists throw a grenade into a bus stop.
7/23/2008 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Islamists gun down a school bus driver in a drive-by shooting.
7/23/2008 Iraq Muqdadiyah 1 0 A young woman is killed in a Jihad roadside bombing.
7/23/2008 Somalia Jowhar 1 0 Islamic militia assassinate a local official.
7/23/2008 Afghanistan Nangarhar 1 2 Religious extremists murder a local cop with a bomb.
7/23/2008 Algeria Lakhdaria 0 13 A suicide bomber on a motorbike injures thirteen Algerians.
7/22/2008 Afghanistan Khost 4 3 A woman and child are among four civilians blown up by Sunni bombers.
7/22/2008 Thailand Narathiwat 1 5 A local soldier is killed in an Islamist bomb blast.
7/22/2008 Afghanistan Ghazni 4 1 The Taliban kidnaps a man after invading his home and killing his four sons.
7/22/2008 Philippines Aleosan 1 1 Moro Islamists shoot a 62-year-old woman to death as she is farming her field.
7/22/2008 Israel Jerusalem 0 11 A Palestinian attempts to run Israelis down with a bulldozer.
7/22/2008 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 41-year-old rubber worker is shot to death by Muslim militants.
7/21/2008 Iraq Saidiya 7 8 al-Qaeda kill seven Iraqis by planting a bomb on a tractor.
7/21/2008 Somalia Mogadishu 7 12 Three children are among seven killed in an Islamic militia mortar attack.
7/21/2008 Iraq Mosul 6 8 Freedom Fighters murder six Iraqis in various attacks.
7/21/2008 Afghanistan Paktika 1 3 Sunni extremists attack the home of a former governor, killing him and injuring members of his family.
7/21/2008 Pakistan Bajur 1 2 Islamic militants gun down an elderly man riding in a car.
7/21/2008 China Kunming 2 10 The Turkestan Islamic Party takes credit for a bus bombing that leaves two dead.
7/21/2008 Afghanistan North Waziristan 2 0 Two civilians are abducted and murdered by Talibanis.
7/20/2008 Afghanistan Laghman 6 0 Six civilians are killed when Sunni hardliners blow up a fuel truck and a nearby minibus with a rocket.
7/20/2008 Thailand Pattani 3 0 Islamic terrorists shoot three villagers to death.
7/20/2008 Somalia Mogadishu 6 11 Six people are killed when Islamic hardliners attack a government patrol along a city street.
7/20/2008 Iraq Basra 1 0 A suspected prostitute is shot to death by fundamentalists.
7/20/2008 India Reasi 1 0 A civilian is shot to death outside his home by Mujahideen.
7/20/2008 Chechnya Grozny 3 0 Suspect Islamic rebels kill three policemen in cold blood.
7/20/2008 India Gulmarg 2 5 An 8-year-old boy is among two people killed when Islamic terrorists toss a grenade into a resort.
7/19/2008 Pakistan Tirah 9 10 Lashkar-e-Islam and Ansar-ul-Islam clash over sectarian differences, leaving nine people dead.
7/19/2008 Afghanistan Kandahar 4 1 Sunni extremists murder four local cops with a roadside bomb.
7/19/2008 India Srinagar 10 16 Hizb-ul-Mujahedeen kill ten Indian soldiers in transport with a horrific bomb attack on their convoy.
7/19/2008 Turkey Bosphorus 1 0 A gay man is shot to death in a suspected 'honor' killing.
7/19/2008 Iraq Tikrit 3 0 Freedom Fighters kill three Iraqis with automatic weapons.
7/19/2008 Pal. Auth. Jabaliya 1 0 Suspected Hamas militants shoot a Fatah activist in his home.
7/19/2008 Lebanon Ain el-Helweh 1 0 Jund al-Sham gunmen take out a member of a reconciliation committee.
7/19/2008 Pakistan Mohmand 4 0 The Taliban murder four hostages in cold blood.
7/18/2008 Iraq Mosul 4 7 A Fedayeen suicide bomber takes out four Iraqis.
7/18/2008 Pakistan North Waziristan 1 0 The head of a local madrassa is gunned down by sectarian rivals.
7/18/2008 Pakistan South Waziristan 3 0 Three civilians are brutally executed by al-Qaeda backed militants.
7/18/2008 India Udhampur 1 0 A civilian is abducted and murdered by the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen.
7/18/2008 Afghanistan Helmand 3 4 Three Afghan guards are killed when religious hardliners bomb their convoy.
7/18/2008 India Banihal 0 36 Three dozen people, mostly women and children, are injured when Islamic terrorists toss a grenade into a crowded market.
7/18/2008 Somalia Mogadishu 3 0 Muslim gunmen shoot three elders to death for helping humanitarian effots.

Space only permits my going back 10 days. But at the link you can see the carnage for the past two months.

TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World

Look, we all know the score. Why continue this argument?

When you look at the Holy books and documents and look at the actions and behaviors and words of the followers of each of the religions, there is no question that Islam poses a greater threat than Christianity.

bhkad · 07-30-08, 07:21 PM

And all non-Muslims ask is that they not be manipulated, molested, moved, maligned or murdered by Muslims trying to apply Sharia law throughout the world.

And because some Muslims can't and others won't prevent this from happening, non-Muslims have to prevent this ourselves or else we will have no one else to blame.

It is really pretty simple to understand.

Tucker Case · 07-30-08, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

When studied on paper from a scientific standpoint the bumble bee should not be able to fly.

And yet it does.

Ever hear about dynamic stall?

From a scientific standpoint, that is.

Kernel Sanders · 07-30-08, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Genesis 19:5-8:
They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so
that we can have sex with them."
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Isaiah 3:16-23
The LORD says, "The women of Zion are haughty, walking along with outstretched necks, flirting with their eyes, tripping along with mincing steps, with ornaments jingling on their ankles.
Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion; the LORD will make their scalps bald." In that day the Lord will snatch away their finery: the bangles and headbands and crescent necklaces, the earrings and bracelets and veils, the headdresses and ankle chains and sashes, the perfume bottles and charms, the signet rings and nose rings, the fine robes and the capes and cloaks, the purses and mirrors, and the linen garments and tiaras and shawls.

Numbers 5:12-31
"Speak to the Israelites and say to them: `If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him by sleeping with another man, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected ...and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure--or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure-- then he is to take his wife to the priest...
"The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.
Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, "If no other man has slept with
you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have defiled yourself by sleeping with a man other than your husband -- here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath--"may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away."
Then the woman is to say, "Amen. So be it."
"The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water.
He shall have the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water will enter her and cause bitter suffering. The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the LORD and bring it to the altar. The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water.
If she has defiled herself and been unfaithful to her husband, then when she is made to drink the water that brings a curse, it will go into her and cause bitter suffering; her abdomen will swell and her thigh waste away, and she will become accursed among her people. If, however, the woman has not defiled herself and is free from impurity, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and defiles herself while married to her husband, or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the LORD and is to apply this entire law to her. The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin."

Deuteronomy 22:20-21:
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Matthew 18:25 :
Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that
he had be sold to repay the debt.

Isaiah 19:16:
In that day the Egyptians will be like women. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that
the LORD Almighty raises against them.

Jeremiah 50:37:
A sword against her horses and chariots and all the foreigners in her ranks! They will become
women. A sword against her treasures! They will be plundered.

1 Corinthians 14:34:
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in
submission, as the Law says.

1 Timothy 2:11:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.

1 Timothy 2:9 :
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or
pearls or expensive clothes.

Esther 1:10-22:
According to law, what must be done to Queen Vashti?" he asked. "She has not obeyed the command of King Xerxes that the eunuchs have taken to her."
Then Memucan replied in the presence of the king and the nobles, "Queen Vashti has done wrong, not only against the king but also against all the nobles and the peoples of all the provinces of King Xerxes. For the queen's conduct will become known to all the women, and so they will despise their husbands and say, `King Xerxes commanded Queen Vashti to be brought before him, but she would not come.'

Genesis 3:16:
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give
birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Judges 11:
And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands,
whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the
Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands.
He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim.
Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his
daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had
neither son nor daughter.
When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh! My daughter! You have made me
miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break."
"My father," she replied, "you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you
promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites.
But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep
with my friends, because I will never marry."
"You may go," he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills
and wept because she would never marry.
After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she
was a virgin. From this comes the Israelite custom that each year the young women of Israel
go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

Leviticus 12:1-8:
The LORD said to Moses,
"Say to the Israelites: `A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be
ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period.
On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised.
Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not
touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over.
If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her
period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.
"`When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the
priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young
pigeon or a dove for a sin offering.
He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be
ceremonially clean from her flow of blood. "`These are the regulations for the woman who
gives birth to a boy or a girl.
If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt
offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her,
and she will be clean.'"

1 Corinthians 11:5:
And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is just
as though her head were shaved.
1

I guess Christianity is evil and misogynistic too. After all, it's in the Bible

When you sit there and rattle off Koran verses that support violence and other evils as proof of what the religion supports you are exactly as misguided and extremist as the Muslims who you so obviously hate, who use those same verses to excuse their crimes.

They use the Koran to justify their hate of those who disagree with their religious views, exactly as you do.

bhkad · 07-30-08, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tucker Case

Ever hear about dynamic stall?

Isn't that what Larry Craig called his favorite meeting place?

"The Dynamic Stall"?

07-30-08, 07:21 PM	#17
bhkad Sage Join Date: May 2007 Last Online: Today 02:43 PM Posts: 9,353 Thanks: 2,795 Thanked 1,265 Times in 868 Posts Total Awards: 1	Re: FOR INFIDELS: Islam and the Submission of Women And all non-Muslims ask is that they not be manipulated, molested, moved, maligned or murdered by Muslims trying to apply Sharia law throughout the world. And because some Muslims can't and others won't prevent this from happening, non-Muslims have to prevent this ourselves or else we will have no one else to blame. It is really pretty simple to understand.
	__________________ OBL 11/24/02

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