U.S. - A "Christian Nation?" - Page 20

Ikari · 07-10-08, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Baron

Part 2 of 2

But back to our own Declaration of Independence…

The Declaration of Independence“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

“Creator” is a very specific name for the Christian God of the Bible as evidenced by the following verses:

Genesis 14:19
and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.

Genesis 14:22
But Abram said to the king of Sodom, "I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath

Deuteronomy 32:6
Is this the way you repay the LORD, O foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?

Ecclesiastes 11:7
[ Remember Your Creator While Young ] Light is sweet, and it pleases the eyes to see the sun.

Ecclesiastes 12:1
Remember your Creator in the days of your youth, before the days of trouble come and the years approach when you will say, "I find no pleasure in them"-

Isaiah 27:11
When its twigs are dry, they are broken off and women come and make fires with them. For this is a people without understanding; so their Maker has no compassion on them, and their Creator shows them no favor.

Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.

Isaiah 43:15
I am the LORD, your Holy One, Israel's Creator, your King."

Matthew 19:4
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Colossians 3:10
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

1 Peter 4:19
So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

The idea that the Christian God of the Bible was their “Creator” would not have been lost on the Founding Fathers.

Gouverneur Morris
“Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God”.
- Life of Gouverneur Morris, Vol. III.

Samuel Adams
“Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, or inculcating in their own minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity…in short of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.”
- Letter to John Adams, October 4, 1790

Benjamin Rush
“In contemplating the political institutions of the United States, I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them. We profess to be republicans and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government. That is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible.”
- A Defense of the Use of the Bible as a School Book, 1798

Northwest Ordinance, Article III
“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.”
- July 13, 1787 (If a territory wanted to become a state, it had to meet these requirements.)

Noah Webster
“In my view, the Christian Religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government, ought to be instructed…no truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian Religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
- Reply to David McClure, October 25, 1836

This has always been a Christian nation and Christianity is, in fact, the foundation for this country.

If you need further proof that this country was founded upon Christianity, please consider the New England Primer, the first grade text book used by the Colonist (approximately 5,000,000 copies in print in America for a population of approximately 4,000,000 people if I recall correctly. It was the second most popular book in the colonies at the time. Only the Bible sold more copies).

It is right and proper that I credit Del Tackett and his work with the Truth Project for my efforts here.

How many of the Ten Commandments are laws?

winston53660 · 07-10-08, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikari

How many of the Ten Commandments are laws?

Well the first commandment and the First Amendment to the United States Constitution are in direct conflict.

The silenced majority · 07-10-08, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

Actually, I have.

When talking about a "Chrisitan Nation", I am referring to the adopted US Constitution here only, but even taking into account drafts and such... the Founders reasoned that they should omit aspects of religion in favor of maintaining secularism and thus my statement stands unchallengable.

No, you're relying on a simple letter that TJ wrote to the Danbury church & the treaty of Tripoli.

Our US Constitution was penned in order to give the sovereign states the ability to write their own laws and set their own rules for conduct, with very few federal guidelines (Hugo Black's interpretation of the separation of Church and State wasn't included).

Before the ink was dry on the US Constitution, States were already busy writing up what many would consider to be extremely theocratic State Constitutions.

Your claim that the US Constitution was designed to sepperate church andstate is flawed because many who helped write the Constitution also wtrote their own State Constitutions.

Australianlibertarian · 07-10-08, 09:13 PM

Even if America was founded as Christian nation. Can anyone tell me how this has any relevance to todays America?

Religious beliefs are fluid, change over time, differ depending on demographics, and may be tempered by secularism.

Even though there are no secular amendments in your constitution, very large parts of America have secular attitudes, and even amongst more conservative Christian areas of the U.S, there are attitudes that would be considered secular by the founding fathers or even figures of the enlightenment period or renaissance.

Point is, if America wants more secular or Christian values, they can enshrined through constitutional amendments. So whether or not America was founded as Christian nation is no more relevant to the progress of your nation, than whether Australia was founded on the basis of prison colony, or Royal Navy outpost.....

winston53660 · 07-10-08, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Australianlibertarian

Even if America was founded as Christian nation.

Puritans came over here so they could enforce their religion because the Church of England wanted to enforce their religion on them in their native country. it really is a catch 22.

Bodhisattva · 07-10-08, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The silenced majority

No, you're relying on a simple letter that TJ wrote to the Danbury church & the treaty of Tripoli.

Our US Constitution was penned in order to give the sovereign states the ability to write their own laws and set their own rules for conduct, with very few federal guidelines (Hugo Black's interpretation of the separation of Church and State wasn't included).

Before the ink was dry on the US Constitution, States were already busy writing up what many would consider to be extremely theocratic State Constitutions.

Your claim that the US Constitution was designed to sepperate church andstate is flawed because many who helped write the Constitution also wtrote their own State Constitutions.

Your calling me a liar? You are actually telling me that I am not solely relying on the US Const.? Bye.

Bodhisattva · 07-10-08, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winston53660

Puritans came over here so they could enforce their religion because the Church of England wanted to enforce their religion on them in their native country. it really is a catch 22.

Yep. My relatives John and Priscilla Alden.

The silenced majority · 07-11-08, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

Your calling me a liar? You are actually telling me that I am not solely relying on the US Const.? Bye.

No I'm not calling you a liar. My position is that the people who helped write the Constitution went on to pen very theocratic State Constitutions.

That fact flies in the face of the assumption that our founders tried mightily to separate religion and State.

Bodhisattva · 07-11-08, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The silenced majority

No I'm not calling you a liar. My position is that the people who helped write the Constitution went on to pen very theocratic State Constitutions.

That fact flies in the face of the assumption that our founders tried mightily to separate religion and State.

OK
I understand what you are saying, and your point is valid.
I simply feel that they created a State, the USA, and they distinctly separated religion and State

kamino · 07-19-08, 05:25 PM

I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
Thomas Jefferson